Are The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit the best high fantasy movies ever?

Page 3 of 4 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: Are The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit the best high fantasy movies ever?

Post by Eldorion on Fri Sep 26, 2014 5:41 am

I don't think high fantasy was really a thing at the time, but I doubt Tolkien would have accepted the classification.  He was aiming for a much older style.  He even resented the classification of LOTR as a novel.

Letter 329 wrote:My work is not a 'novel', but an 'heroic romance' a much older and quite different variety of literature

Although he was probably using the (now somewhat antiquated) definition of a novel as a story that aspires to realism, and one could make the case that many modern "fantasy novels" owe as much or more to medieval romance as they do to early modern novels.
avatar
Eldorion
He Who Seeks To Become a Master at Ye Old Temple In Merry Land... of Oz, or so I presume.

Posts : 22444
Join date : 2011-02-13
Age : 23
Location : Maryland, United States

http://nolondil.tumblr.com/essays

Back to top Go down

Re: Are The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit the best high fantasy movies ever?

Post by Bluebottle on Fri Sep 26, 2014 1:01 pm

High fantasy seem obviosuly to me an after the fact construct made to classify the tradition of writing that sprang out of Tolkien. What is often forgotten is that Tolkiens creation had had the undeniable air of originality. While Lords of the Rings does lean heavily on heroic romantic myths and legends, like the Arthurian Tales, it goes above and beyond that and created something completely new. Which is what we refer to as High Fantasy today, I guess. I'm not sure everyone who followed in his footsteps, while having their work refered to as High Fantasy, has managed to live up to that example. And many slumped back into writing heroic romantic myth, but it definitively started a new tradition.

As for the original question, I guess the problem so far is that the one external definition found rules out LotRs as High Fantasy, albeit while not realizing doing so, so I guess the question is kind of moot. Razz

_________________
“We're doomed,” he says, casually. “There's no question about that. But it's OK to be doomed because then you can just enjoy your life."
avatar
Bluebottle
Adventurer

Posts : 9344
Join date : 2013-11-09
Age : 30

Back to top Go down

Re: Are The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit the best high fantasy movies ever?

Post by Bluebottle on Fri Sep 26, 2014 2:01 pm

Eldorion wrote:Pretty much.  I know some people who get really defensive about this definition (often they tend to be Robert Jordan fans Very Happy), and it does run the risk of defining the genre in too specific terms.  But the debt to Tolkien is undeniable (though that doesn't stop everyone), and you don't have to be copying Tolkien exactly to still clearly be operating in the post-Tolkienian sphere.  Series like ASOIAF come to mind.  Obviously it owes a ton to real world history, and introduces various elements that distinguish it from Tolkien and his clones, but it's still working within the bounds of a genre that was established with Tolkien in mind.  And I think GRRM has been very up-front about this.

Yes. Though I'd say GRRM should rather be considered someone who took the genre of fantasy in a new direction. With an infusion of originality and change in the paradigm of how fantasy should be written. Which he did by, as you say, introducing elements from the genre of historical ficiton, among other things. He does have his little fantasy story going on in the background, with the others and what's happening north of the wall, but most of the narrative in the book takes place on the human level. The whole allengrossing battle between good and evil that is such an earmark of any fantasy that followed Tolkien is made secondary. The battle between good and evil taking place in the human heart.

Obviously Tolkien is a general influence and it's written in his tradition, but a lot of what I like about Georges work is that he dares to take some distinct steps in his own direction. Though I guess his story will turn more towards the traditional fantasy part towards the end. So while he has introduced a lot of new elements, it's still ingrained in the fantasy tradition.

Anyway, obviously High Fantasy is not a narrow definition, it might include things that have taken a distinct step away from Tolkien, but not including Tolkien pretty much leaves the definition meaningless, yeah.

Eldorion wrote:(often they tend to be Robert Jordan fans Very Happy)

Robert Jordan? Really? Razz

Though also there the Age before the current Age, which the story takes place in, history moves in a cyclical fashion in his world, has distinct similarities with the present day, and could perhaps be considered a fictional version of such. So that story might very well toy with falling into the same trap as Tolkien, anyway.

_________________
“We're doomed,” he says, casually. “There's no question about that. But it's OK to be doomed because then you can just enjoy your life."
avatar
Bluebottle
Adventurer

Posts : 9344
Join date : 2013-11-09
Age : 30

Back to top Go down

Re: Are The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit the best high fantasy movies ever?

Post by Radaghast on Fri Sep 26, 2014 3:50 pm

I feel it's only fair to mention authors like William Morris (The Well at World's End) and E.R. Eddison (The Worm Ouroboros), both of helped influence and inspire Tolkien.

_________________
The wolf one hears is worse than the orc one fears.

http://helob.deviantart.com/gallery/
https://stopthesecrecy.net/

avatar
Radaghast
Barrel-rider

Posts : 1748
Join date : 2013-06-12
Location : The place where that thing is.

Back to top Go down

Re: Are The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit the best high fantasy movies ever?

Post by Mrs Figg on Fri Sep 26, 2014 5:14 pm

Elthir wrote:
Mrs Figg wrote: the Owl looks like a Barn-aby to me. Very Happy

Heheh good one Mrs Figg... that made me screech when I first saw-whet.

Very Happy


what a Hoot Very Happy

avatar
Mrs Figg
Eel Wrangler from Bree

Posts : 21783
Join date : 2011-10-06
Age : 87
Location : Holding The Door

Back to top Go down

Re: Are The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit the best high fantasy movies ever?

Post by Elthir on Fri Sep 26, 2014 6:42 pm

Mrs Figg wrote:
Elthir wrote:
Mrs Figg wrote: the Owl looks like a Barn-aby to me. Very Happy

Heheh good one Mrs Figg... that made me screech when I first saw-whet.

Very Happy


what a Hoot  Very Happy


Owl never forget that one!
avatar
Elthir
Sharrasi's prentice

Posts : 1142
Join date : 2011-06-10

Back to top Go down

Re: Are The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit the best high fantasy movies ever?

Post by Elthir on Fri Sep 26, 2014 6:45 pm

High middle or low aside... I thought we owl decided that Legend was the best fantasy film so far...

... if we took out some bad parts. Ahem.

Or maybe it was just that Legend had the best Unihorns on film?
avatar
Elthir
Sharrasi's prentice

Posts : 1142
Join date : 2011-06-10

Back to top Go down

Re: Are The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit the best high fantasy movies ever?

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Sep 26, 2014 6:47 pm

Oh dear, do Unihorns have a colour by any chance, and might it begin with g??

_________________
Pure Publications is Reasonably Proud to Present the first ever Forumshire novel!

Gingerlocks and the Three McTyrants

- get your copy here for a limited period- free*

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2678c57O-0LUEROYml2NTFEUTQ

PDF Version (courtesy of Amarie) https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-1_FdCbmY2-dC1MbXFOVl9UNm8/view?usp=sharing

*Pure Publications reserves the right to track your usage of this publication, snoop on your home address, go through your bins and sell personal information on to the highest bidder.
avatar
Pettytyrant101
Crabbitmeister

Posts : 39310
Join date : 2011-02-14
Age : 45
Location : Scotshobbitland

Back to top Go down

Re: Are The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit the best high fantasy movies ever?

Post by Elthir on Fri Sep 26, 2014 6:50 pm

Are there green Unihorns? Maybe.

Also, I meant Legend director's cut... although he coulda been cuttier in my opinion.
avatar
Elthir
Sharrasi's prentice

Posts : 1142
Join date : 2011-06-10

Back to top Go down

Re: Are The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit the best high fantasy movies ever?

Post by azriel on Fri Sep 26, 2014 7:46 pm

Dont encourage him Petty, im sure he's dying to say the "Ger" word Rolling Eyes Just looking for the right excuse.

_________________
"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. It's the job that's never started as takes longest to finish.”
"There are far, far, better things ahead than any we can leave behind"
If you always do what you have always done, you will always get what you always got



avatar
azriel
Grumpy cat, rub my tummy, hear me purr

Posts : 12628
Join date : 2012-10-07
Age : 57
Location : in a galaxy, far,far away, deep in my own imagination.

Back to top Go down

Re: Are The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit the best high fantasy movies ever?

Post by Elthir on Fri Sep 26, 2014 11:05 pm

I don't need to say it... for now!

I'll just say mith and any randirs of a different colour will just have to deal with my Sindarin... or Grey-elven... okay I needed to say it.
avatar
Elthir
Sharrasi's prentice

Posts : 1142
Join date : 2011-06-10

Back to top Go down

Re: Are The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit the best high fantasy movies ever?

Post by Eldorion on Sat Sep 27, 2014 3:14 am

Radaghast wrote:I feel it's only fair to mention authors like William Morris (The Well at World's End) and E.R. Eddison (The Worm Ouroboros), both of helped influence and inspire Tolkien.

That's a good point. These authors often get left out of the genre discussion because they were writing before most popular fiction genres were established, but it's worth recognizing that Tolkien was part of a wider literary scene.

I think that many of the divisions within fantasy can be seen in Tolkien/Lewis in the (for lack of a better term) British fairy tale tradition, and other (predominantly American) writers who came out of the pulp tradition, which greatly influenced sci-fi, fantasy, horror, and superheroes.
avatar
Eldorion
He Who Seeks To Become a Master at Ye Old Temple In Merry Land... of Oz, or so I presume.

Posts : 22444
Join date : 2011-02-13
Age : 23
Location : Maryland, United States

http://nolondil.tumblr.com/essays

Back to top Go down

Re: Are The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit the best high fantasy movies ever?

Post by Radaghast on Sat Sep 27, 2014 3:23 am

Sounds about right.

BTW, I haven't read The Well at World's End (yet) but I have read The Worm Ouroboros and would recommend it heartily. I think it's time I re-read that.

_________________
The wolf one hears is worse than the orc one fears.

http://helob.deviantart.com/gallery/
https://stopthesecrecy.net/

avatar
Radaghast
Barrel-rider

Posts : 1748
Join date : 2013-06-12
Location : The place where that thing is.

Back to top Go down

Re: Are The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit the best high fantasy movies ever?

Post by chris63 on Mon Sep 29, 2014 3:20 am

Are The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit the best high fantasy movies ever?

Yes with The Belgarion a close 2nd.

http://davideddings.wikia.com/wiki/Garion

_________________
avatar
chris63
Adventurer

Posts : 7180
Join date : 2011-07-04
Location : Perth, Australia

Back to top Go down

Re: Are The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit the best high fantasy movies ever?

Post by Bluebottle on Mon Sep 29, 2014 7:14 pm

Radaghast wrote:I feel it's only fair to mention authors like William Morris (The Well at World's End) and E.R. Eddison (The Worm Ouroboros), both of helped influence and inspire Tolkien.


Yeah, good point. He obviusly had both more contemporary and more distant inspirations. Nod

I'd be interested though, not having read either of them, how you would compare the one you read to Tolkiens work. Was it more like the Hobbit or LotRs? Would you say theres something that seperates Tolkiens writing from the one you read?

_________________
“We're doomed,” he says, casually. “There's no question about that. But it's OK to be doomed because then you can just enjoy your life."
avatar
Bluebottle
Adventurer

Posts : 9344
Join date : 2013-11-09
Age : 30

Back to top Go down

Re: Are The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit the best high fantasy movies ever?

Post by Radaghast on Mon Sep 29, 2014 7:46 pm

Bluebottle wrote:I'd be interested though, not having read either of them, how you would compare the one you read to Tolkiens work. Was it more like the Hobbit or LotRs? Would you say theres something that seperates Tolkiens writing from the one you read?
I'd say it's very different from Tolkien, though more similar to The Silmarillion than TLotR. I'd say it's closer to Greek myth.

_________________
The wolf one hears is worse than the orc one fears.

http://helob.deviantart.com/gallery/
https://stopthesecrecy.net/

avatar
Radaghast
Barrel-rider

Posts : 1748
Join date : 2013-06-12
Location : The place where that thing is.

Back to top Go down

Re: Are The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit the best high fantasy movies ever?

Post by RA on Wed Oct 01, 2014 8:47 am

Elthir wrote:
I'll just say mith and any randirs of a different colour will just have to deal with my Sindarin... or Grey-elven... okay I needed to say it.
I need to deal with my Silmarillion again...it's been a while since I read it.

_________________
"No one knows what the new day shall bring him" -Aragorn T.A. 3019 March 4th
Save Merp for 2013!
25,000 and counting. 12-23-12
"From him they learnt many things it were not good for any but the great Valar to know, for being half-comprehended such deep hidden things slay happiness; and besides many of the sayings of Melko were cunning lies or were but partly true, and the Noldoli ceased to sing, and their viols fell silent upon the hill of Kôr, for their hearts grew somewhat older as their lore grew deeper and their desires more swollen, and the books of their wisdom were multiplied as the leaves of the forest."

Remember Merp - July 11th, 2013
avatar
RA
Defender of the faith and Dunedain of the thread

Posts : 1738
Join date : 2012-02-12
Location : Buckland

Back to top Go down

Re: Are The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit the best high fantasy movies ever?

Post by Mrs Figg on Wed Oct 01, 2014 5:38 pm

I never read it all
avatar
Mrs Figg
Eel Wrangler from Bree

Posts : 21783
Join date : 2011-10-06
Age : 87
Location : Holding The Door

Back to top Go down

Re: Are The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit the best high fantasy movies ever?

Post by chris63 on Thu Oct 02, 2014 12:05 am

Fantasy movie, sorry thought it was fantasy books thats why i had The Belgariad down as 2nd

http://davideddings.wikia.com/wiki/The_Belgariad

Lotr's still 1st.

_________________
avatar
chris63
Adventurer

Posts : 7180
Join date : 2011-07-04
Location : Perth, Australia

Back to top Go down

Re: Are The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit the best high fantasy movies ever?

Post by RA on Thu Oct 02, 2014 9:17 am

Mrs Figg wrote:I never read it all
I forgive you

_________________
"No one knows what the new day shall bring him" -Aragorn T.A. 3019 March 4th
Save Merp for 2013!
25,000 and counting. 12-23-12
"From him they learnt many things it were not good for any but the great Valar to know, for being half-comprehended such deep hidden things slay happiness; and besides many of the sayings of Melko were cunning lies or were but partly true, and the Noldoli ceased to sing, and their viols fell silent upon the hill of Kôr, for their hearts grew somewhat older as their lore grew deeper and their desires more swollen, and the books of their wisdom were multiplied as the leaves of the forest."

Remember Merp - July 11th, 2013
avatar
RA
Defender of the faith and Dunedain of the thread

Posts : 1738
Join date : 2012-02-12
Location : Buckland

Back to top Go down

Re: Are The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit the best high fantasy movies ever?

Post by Bluebottle on Thu Oct 02, 2014 11:04 am

Recoveryanonymous wrote:
Mrs Figg wrote:I never read it all
I forgive you
The Silmarillion is probably better read in parts anyway. The whole thing is a bit daunting.. and incoherent..

_________________
“We're doomed,” he says, casually. “There's no question about that. But it's OK to be doomed because then you can just enjoy your life."
avatar
Bluebottle
Adventurer

Posts : 9344
Join date : 2013-11-09
Age : 30

Back to top Go down

Re: Are The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit the best high fantasy movies ever?

Post by Mrs Figg on Thu Oct 02, 2014 2:26 pm

Recoveryanonymous wrote:
Mrs Figg wrote:I never read it all
I forgive you

I like bits of it Embarassed
avatar
Mrs Figg
Eel Wrangler from Bree

Posts : 21783
Join date : 2011-10-06
Age : 87
Location : Holding The Door

Back to top Go down

Re: Are The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit the best high fantasy movies ever?

Post by malickfan on Thu Oct 02, 2014 3:17 pm

Is it weird that I enjoy The Silmarillion and The Hobbit more than LOTR? (though I would agree LOTR is a much better, and more coherent book) I think I've actually read them both more often as well (probably because they are shorter).





_________________
The Thorin: An Unexpected Rewrite December 2012 (I was on the money apparently)
The Tauriel: Desolation of Canon December 2013 (Accurate again!)
The Sod-it! : Battling my Indifference December 2014 (You know what they say, third time's the charm)

Well, that was worth the wait wasn't it  Suspect


I think what comes out of a pig's rear end is more akin to what Peejers has given us-Azriel 20/9/2014
avatar
malickfan
Adventurer

Posts : 3746
Join date : 2013-09-10
Age : 25
Location : The (Hamp)shire, England

Back to top Go down

Re: Are The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit the best high fantasy movies ever?

Post by Ringdrotten on Thu Oct 02, 2014 5:31 pm

Not weird at all Very Happy I often can't decide which I enjoy the most (of LotR and TH, haven't read The Silmarillion). I've read LotR once a year for a few years now, and after I've read it I always have to read The Hobbit for some reason. When I read them in translation, however, my favourite by far is LotR (I've mentioned why too many times already, so I'll spare you all the praises & fanboy-ramblings this time Very Happy )

_________________
“The Lord is my shepherd. I shall not want for nothing. He makes me lie down in the green pastures. He greases up my head with oil. He gives me kung-fu in the face of my enemies. Amen”. - Tom Cullen


avatar
Ringdrotten
Mrs Bear Grylls

Posts : 4385
Join date : 2011-02-13

Back to top Go down

Re: Are The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit the best high fantasy movies ever?

Post by Eldorion on Thu Oct 02, 2014 9:03 pm

I've also read The Hobbit and The Silm many more times than I've read LOTR. I considered TS and LOTR to be on par with each other for a while, but these days I've firmly in the LOTR camp. But yeah, the length makes it the hardest one to actually get through for me.

I never found The Silmarillion to be that daunting of a read. Maybe it's because I grew up devouring similar anthology-type works like D'Aulaire's Book of Greek Myths and, later, Edith Hamilton's Mythology, but the format clicked for me (although the Ainulindale is definitely pretty jarring if you don't know what you're getting into). I do still sometimes have to refer to the family trees and the index at the back, but I do that with ASOIAF too. Shrugging
avatar
Eldorion
He Who Seeks To Become a Master at Ye Old Temple In Merry Land... of Oz, or so I presume.

Posts : 22444
Join date : 2011-02-13
Age : 23
Location : Maryland, United States

http://nolondil.tumblr.com/essays

Back to top Go down

Page 3 of 4 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum