LOTR 1978 version

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Re: LOTR 1978 version

Post by Norc on Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:38 am

yeah, he does, doesn't he? with that flowing hair and those eyes Wink
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Re: LOTR 1978 version

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:46 pm

Mad What is this? Its a disgrace -wait till Odo sees this blatant discriminant sexualisation of men as objects!! Evil or Very Mad

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Re: LOTR 1978 version

Post by Mrs Figg on Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:05 pm

hem pouty as in pouty mouth, he looks a bit er...metrosexual for my liking, a bit Enrique Inglasias, could be wrong, but he aint looking very elf. Rolling Eyes
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Re: LOTR 1978 version

Post by Norc on Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:07 pm

then I will not tell you that he played in where he was a transexual.
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Re: LOTR 1978 version

Post by Ally on Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:43 pm

Mrs Figg wrote:hem pouty as in pouty mouth, he looks a bit er...metrosexual for my liking, a bit Enrique Inglasias, could be wrong, but he aint looking very elf. Rolling Eyes

Not as metrosexual as Orlando/Legolas is in the films... Rolling Eyes

Pettytyrant101 wrote: Mad What is this? Its a disgrace -wait till Odo sees this blatant discriminant sexualisation of men as objects!! Evil or Very Mad

Sweetie, we love Viggo's rugged intelligence too!

Norc wrote:then I will not tell you that he played in where he was a transexual.

WHAT?

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Re: LOTR 1978 version

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:58 pm

And what about the rest of them Ally? They all got Masters Degrees? Suspect

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Re: LOTR 1978 version

Post by Ally on Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:00 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:And what about the rest of them Ally? They all got Masters Degrees? Suspect

No, that's why we simply tell them to take their shirt off Nod

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Re: LOTR 1978 version

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:20 pm

Mad With the attitudes of young women today they may as well be young lads?! Mad

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Re: LOTR 1978 version

Post by Orwell on Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:01 pm

Women.... Rolling Eyes I'm home - and I'm going to bed....

{{{I might think about women there, Petty, though I don't suppose I'll work them out. Never have, never will. Rolling Eyes They do have positive attributes though. Good morning then! Very Happy }}}

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Re: LOTR 1978 version

Post by Norc on Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:36 pm

forget everything I've ever said about the bakshi version. I love it. Not, petty, because it's more true to the book because I don't admit that it is or that that makes it better/worse. I love it in all its madness.
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Re: LOTR 1978 version

Post by Norc on Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:41 pm

what I don't understand though is why they stand for like eight minutes at the ford and just stare at each other.
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Re: LOTR 1978 version

Post by David H on Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:53 pm

Be honest. It's because they made Aragorn a viking, isn't it? Wink
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Re: LOTR 1978 version

Post by Norc on Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:09 pm

it's because it's so silly and I can't stop laughing at everything they chose to do.
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Re: LOTR 1978 version

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:02 pm

what I don't understand though is why they stand for like eight minutes at the ford and just stare at each other.- Norc

Well at least its Frodo doing the staring! At least he gets to do stuff in Bakshis, he has a go at stabbing the Witch-king at Weathertop and he gets to be defiant at the Ford and, um stare for a bit.
And I cant be the only one surely who thinks it was actually genius to have the only overtly American accents as the Ringwraioths- I find his rpeated chant of "Come back, come back. To Mordor we will take you" really quite effective and chilling.
And whilst visually you may prefer PJ's Ring world visuals of swirlness, credit to Bakshi for being the one to come up with the idea to have a visually different representation of the Ring world in the first place- without it I doubt Pj would have his either. Given how many vsual cues he takes from Bakshi. Its certainly not based on anything in the book where things just get a bit dimmer but smelling and hearing get sharper.

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Re: LOTR 1978 version

Post by Ringdrotten on Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:08 pm

"Its certainly not based on anything in the book where things just get a bit dimmer but smelling and hearing get sharper." - Petty

I thought there was more to it than that? I mean, Glorfindel looks different there if I understood it correctly, and the Ringwraiths too. But other than that, just dimmer light and heightened senses?

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Re: LOTR 1978 version

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:22 pm

At that point Frodo is almost a wraith, the knife point has almost reached his heart. So he can see into both worlds- thats not Glorfindel in the Ring world only- thats what he looks like 'on the other side'. Elves being in both worlds at once. He looks like that all the time, just we mere mortal can't see it.
But we get a decent description of the physical worlds appearnce when Sam puts on the Ring and there is nothing in the description to justify PJ's or Bakshis visual treatment.

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Re: LOTR 1978 version

Post by Norc on Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:28 pm

Ringdrotten wrote:"Its certainly not based on anything in the book where things just get a bit dimmer but smelling and hearing get sharper." - Petty

I thought there was more to it than that? I mean, Glorfindel looks different there if I understood it correctly, and the Ringwraiths too. But other than that, just dimmer light and heightened senses?

Glorfindel is replaced by Legolas. Why didn't they just draw the balrog, the orcs and the ringwraiths? and why did Gandalf when falling say in a perfectly calm voice "flyy you fools" as he was asking them to take a seat at a fancy tea party?
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Re: LOTR 1978 version

Post by Ringdrotten on Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:31 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote: Elves being in both worlds at once. He looks like that all the time, just we mere mortal can't see it.
But we get a decent description of the physical worlds appearnce when Sam puts on the Ring and there is nothing in the description to justify PJ's or Bakshis visual treatment.

Thanks for reminding me - it's been too long since I last read the books Embarassed

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Re: LOTR 1978 version

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:31 pm

Wizards voices are not susceptable to the doppler effect whilst falling. Sheesh Norc! Rolling Eyes

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Re: LOTR 1978 version

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:33 pm

Being forced to do your part for your country is a perfectly good excuse for not having the time Ringdrotten. Hey no, hold on, Tolkien wrote the damn thing under fire- no excuse! Evil or Very Mad

Oh an the orcs in the Tower see the Ring when Sam clutches it in its guise as a wheel of fire, and it gives Sam a more frightening, bigger appearence to them. And they can sense its power. So it seems to effect peoples perceptions in different ways. But from the pointof view of Sam not much changes save his hearing his better-he can hear Shelob bublbing away deep in the mountain somewhere- adn his sense of smell too if I remember correctly, but his sight is poorer and everything seems veiled in grey and somehow less solid looking.

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Re: LOTR 1978 version

Post by yooper on Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:29 am

This discussion is flirting with the question, What does the One Ring do?

We know from canon that the ring confers power of dominion over the other rings and their bearers... but only in proportion to the user's inherent power to begin with. The ring also amplifies any inherent strengths/powers of the wearer, again only in proportion to the wearers capacity.

What do these powers have to do with invisibility?

Partly based on the quotes that Petty provides above, I think conferring invisibility is really just a side effect. When a mortal puts on the ring, they temporarily become part of the immortal wraith/spirit world. That's why they become invisible in the "world of light." Also why Frodo can see Glorfindel and the Nazgul for what they really are. And why the Nazgul can suddenly see him so much more clearly. This also fits with the fact that ring confers "unnatural long life" to the bearer - the bearer being (artificially, if you will) part of the immortal world. Also the reason why a mortal bearer would slowly fade over time and become a wraith.

We don't know for sure that the ring would confer invisibility to those who already exist in both worlds. Apparently Sauron was not invisible while wearing the ring while battling Elendil/Gil-Galad/Isildur on the slopes of Mt. Doom. Based on the theory above, I would guess this would apply to other immortals as well. Tom Bombadil seems to support this (whatever he is, he doesn't seem to be mortal).
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Re: LOTR 1978 version

Post by yooper on Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:41 am

It's not clear to me how a Silvan or Sindarin elf would be affected by the ring. When speaking of Glorfindel, Gandalf tells Frodo that "those who have dwelt in the Blessed Realm live at once in both worlds, and against both the Seen and Unseen they have great power."

Based on that, it may be only high-elves that exist in both worlds. Elves of middle earth would apparently be subject to the Ring's power of invisibility even though they are immortal?
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Re: LOTR 1978 version

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:10 am

Interesting points Yooper. And I agree with your analysis.
For me that scene at the Fod with Glrfindel is crucial and its a shame PJ left it out. It explains what happens when you put on the Ring. And it makes sense it owouldnot affect those who already existed in bothe worlds the same way (at least perceptionally). When Frodo puts it on he is in the 'other world' more than this one and can see things in as they are there, and they can see him. Glorfindel is already in both worlds. So even if he put on the Ring that aspect would not change and he would, like Sauron, still appear in both worlds. Mortals it seems are mainly in one or the other, and when its the other world dominant they fade from this world.
This would also however have to presume that it is not immortality which decides but existing in both worlds conciously whilst alive- which would mean Tom is in both worlds too if so rather than immortal. Just exceptionally long lived, I believe at some point he says he is first and last- implying an ending and therefore mortality.

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Re: LOTR 1978 version

Post by yooper on Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:15 am

Interesting take on Tom and mortality. I won't necessarily disagree. However, "first and last", that doesn't have to imply an ending for Tom. That could imply an ending for everything/everyone else, in which case Tom would be the last to remain. In fact with immortal beings around (which in M.E. there obviously are) no mortal being could claim to be "last." So I guess I am disagreeing after all.

But in any case, this isn't particularly relevant to the discussion at hand, and discussing Tom at too much length is pretty pointless, Tolkien included him as an enigma on purpose and so it seems he must remain.
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