Critics review 'The Battle of the Five Armies'

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Re: Critics review 'The Battle of the Five Armies'

Post by azriel on Fri Oct 09, 2015 10:20 pm

A little nugget I found on the interwundawebz

""The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies (2014) When the movie was promoted with a panel at San Diego Comic-Con, several fans camped outside the hall the day before the panel in order to get seats. In the middle of the night, the fans were woken up by cast members Lee Pace and Andy Serkis, who greeted the waiting fans and delivered autographs and photos for hours. In the end, Pace passed out from exhaustion and shared a mattress with a fan.""

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Re: Critics review 'The Battle of the Five Armies'

Post by azriel on Fri Oct 09, 2015 10:20 pm

Lord of the Rings (2001) The cast often had to fly to remote shoot locations by helicopter. But Sean Bean was afraid of flying. So, when the crew shot the scenes of the Fellowship crossing the snowy mountains, Bean would spend two hours every morning climbing from the base of the mountain to the set near the top, already dressed as Boromir. The cast and crew would pass him as they flew up.

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Re: Critics review 'The Battle of the Five Armies'

Post by Mrs Figg on Fri Oct 09, 2015 10:43 pm

silly Mr Bean Very Happy

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Re: Critics review 'The Battle of the Five Armies'

Post by bungobaggins on Fri Oct 09, 2015 11:40 pm


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Re: Critics review 'The Battle of the Five Armies'

Post by Mrs Figg on Sat Oct 10, 2015 11:13 am

I cant imagine Boromir with a bird on his face. Suspect

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Re: Critics review 'The Battle of the Five Armies'

Post by azriel on Sat Oct 10, 2015 12:04 pm

Shocked

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Re: Critics review 'The Battle of the Five Armies'

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sat Oct 10, 2015 3:41 pm

Laughing

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Re: Critics review 'The Battle of the Five Armies'

Post by bungobaggins on Sat Oct 10, 2015 9:54 pm



Loved Mr. Bean as a kid. Still love Mr. Bean. I love you

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Re: Critics review 'The Battle of the Five Armies'

Post by Eldorion on Mon Oct 12, 2015 10:55 pm

azriel wrote:Lord of the Rings (2001) The cast often had to fly to remote shoot locations by helicopter. But Sean Bean was afraid of flying. So, when the crew shot the scenes of the Fellowship crossing the snowy mountains, Bean would spend two hours every morning climbing from the base of the mountain to the set near the top, already dressed as Boromir. The cast and crew would pass him as they flew up.

Sean Bean definitely took a method acting approach after reading about Boromir's five 111 day journey to Rivendell. Nod


Last edited by Eldorion on Wed Oct 14, 2015 11:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Critics review 'The Battle of the Five Armies'

Post by davidjoneshoward on Wed Oct 14, 2015 11:23 pm

Eldorion wrote:

Sean Bean definitely took a method acting approach after reading about Boromir's five 111 day journey to Rivendell. Nod

shit, was it that long? Shocked
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Re: Critics review 'The Battle of the Five Armies'

Post by Eldorion on Wed Oct 14, 2015 11:31 pm

Yeah, Boromir was going through long stretches of desolate wilderness once he got through the Gap of Rohan. The length of the journey is discussed a little bit in Rivendell and Bilbo sort of teases him about, but Tolkien wrote in Unfinished Tales* that "the courage and hardihood required [to make that journey] is not fully recognized in the narrative". On the other hand, PJ said in the commentary to TTT-EE that it took five days to travel from Osgiliath to Rivendell, which I like to bring up from time to time to point out how PJ really didn't think through the implications of a pre-industrial setting on stuff like travel times. Either that or he just made an unguarded comment. Razz

*Specifically, the comment was made in a philological essay that was quoted in the appendices to "The History of Galadriel and Celeborn", in the bit about the Port of Lond Daer (Appendix D).
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Re: Critics review 'The Battle of the Five Armies'

Post by Forest Shepherd on Sun Feb 04, 2018 7:39 pm

Here's a critical review: why the heck is it BotFA, and not TBoFA?

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Re: Critics review 'The Battle of the Five Armies'

Post by Eldorion on Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:58 pm

"The Battle of the Five Armies" is the form of the name used in LOTR Appendix B, although The Hobbit itself uses just "the Battle of Five Armies". PJ and Co went with the former for the name of the film.
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Re: Critics review 'The Battle of the Five Armies'

Post by Forest Shepherd on Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:38 pm

Hm...

I'm having a hard time deciding why I like the latter more.

Most battles involve place-names, and only rarely is the definite article needed for those. Rivers use the definite article, as in Battle of the River Plate, Battle of the Hydaspes, or Battle of the Somme. Although sometimes battles named after a characteristic of the battle rather than a place-name uses a definite article as well, as in the Battle of the Bulge, which was named so by the press for the shape the Allied lines made on maps when pushed back by the Germans.

I don't know, I can't easily think of or find other examples. Maybe war names. War of the Roses, War of the Austrian Succession.

Anyway, I don't think the "the" is needed for the five armies. "The Battle of Five Armies" is more elegant, and reading out the initialism results in a pleasant "Teh-boe-fuh" as opposed to "Teh-boat-fuh". Clearly superior! Nod

Also, it is not as though there are only five armies in all of Middle Earth. They are not the five armies, but a five armies, so to speak. We do not refer to the Nirnaeth Arnoediad as "The Battle of the Unnumbered Tears", after all!







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Re: Critics review 'The Battle of the Five Armies'

Post by Forest Shepherd on Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:41 pm

Eldorion wrote:"The Battle of the Five Armies" is the form of the name used in LOTR Appendix B, although The Hobbit itself uses just "the Battle of Five Armies". PJ and Co went with the former for the name of the film.
I can't find any reference to why they chose to do so. But then I haven't watched the special features for the movie yet. Has anyone around here done so yet?

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Re: Critics review 'The Battle of the Five Armies'

Post by Eldorion on Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:59 pm

I've steadfastly referred to the film as "BOFA", intervening definite article be damned, but then again I've always played fast and loose with the rules (Laughing) by excluding the article at the beginning of all the film names except for AUJ and TTT, siince otherwise those abbreviations would only be two letters long.

I think you make a good argument for referring to the battle as "of Five Armies" rather than "of the Five Armies". The only counterexample I can think of off the top of my head is the Battle of the Nations (aka Battle of Leipzig, 1813), which obviously didn't include every nation in Europe or even in Germany. But generally speaking I agree with your way of looking at things.

(Un)fortunately the only Hobbit bonus features I've watched are the production diaries and such snippets of the Appendices as I've seen posted online. I bought AUJ-EE on DVD but never got around to watching the documentaries.
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Re: Critics review 'The Battle of the Five Armies'

Post by Forest Shepherd on Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:02 am

The production diaries were so good...

The memory of lost hopes... what a bitter recollection!

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Re: Critics review 'The Battle of the Five Armies'

Post by azriel on Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:28 am

Battle of five armies is more appropriate I feel. I found a sentence in The Hobbit that refers to this....................
"Dread has come upon you all ! Alas! it has come more swiftly than I guessed. The Goblins are upon you ! Bolg of the North is coming, O Dain ! whose father you slew in Moria, Behold ! the bats are above his army like a sea of locusts. They ride upon wolves and wargs are in their train ! " etc etc till....
"So began a battle that none had expected; and it was called the Battle of Five Armies, and it was very terrible." ....................
From "The Clouds Burst" chapter 17.

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Re: Critics review 'The Battle of the Five Armies'

Post by halfwise on Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:47 pm

azriel wrote:A little nugget I found on the interwundawebz

""The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies (2014) When the movie was promoted with a panel at San Diego Comic-Con, several fans camped outside the hall the day before the panel in order to get seats. In the middle of the night, the fans were woken up by cast members Lee Pace and Andy Serkis, who greeted the waiting fans and delivered autographs and photos for hours. In the end, Pace passed out from exhaustion and shared a mattress with a fan.""


That does make you love the guy, doesn't it?

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Re: Critics review 'The Battle of the Five Armies'

Post by azriel on Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:59 pm

I love 'human' people. Makes the world look better & feel better Smile

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Re: Critics review 'The Battle of the Five Armies'

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:46 pm

{{{Lindsay Ellis (formerly Nostalgia Chick) reviews the Hobbit films. Don't agree with quite a lot of what she says, particualry regards the books and some changes being good- the changes she mentions are not good and in the case of Bilbo choosing to leave undermines the point of the plot- left to his own devices he would have quite happily stayed in comfort at home but fate had other plans and literally shoved him out the door- just as a whole generation got plucked from their idyllic countryside life and sent to foreign lands to fight people they'd never even met before!!! Mad The whole point of Bilbo is that of his own accord he would never give up his comfortable settle dlife for the unknown and putting his life at risk but is sent off into the unknown where he puts his life at risk- and what that does to him, teaches him and how it changes his view of the world. Its important damn it!!! Evil or Very Mad Um, sorry- I really hate that change....oh her book Boromir point is wrong too but thats a crabbit rant for another day!!!}}}



{{oh and ironically for the film being reviewed, it has an overlong intro largely unrelated to the points being made, or at least nowhere near as much as she seems to think it does, and can probably be skipped with no harm- much like most of PJ's Hobbit films! If she is warbling on about To Kill A Mocking Bird, keep skipping ahead! }}}

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Re: Critics review 'The Battle of the Five Armies'

Post by halfwise on Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:15 pm

If you didn't like any of her review, why post it? Though from watching the first few minutes I think she has a good reviewing style. But I need a reason to watch the rest of it, and your crabbit is not encouraging.

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Re: Critics review 'The Battle of the Five Armies'

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:28 pm

{{Ah sorry let the crabbit overwhelm that one!- no I am crabbit about what she says in particular about things being better in the films than in the book- and the particular things she chooses to say it about- her dissection of much of what is wrong about TH films however is perfectly accurate and she is a very decent indepth reviewer with a good grasp of narrative structure in film }}

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Re: Critics review 'The Battle of the Five Armies'

Post by azriel on Wed Mar 28, 2018 5:23 pm

Bilbo in my feeling left Bag End, after hearing the Dwarves stories because he felt a twinge of guilt & excitement. Inside he has the capacity to help someone in need, a conscience.  And also there is that little itch that tugs away saying "lets have fun".  Did very young men feel like that back in WW1 ? a mixture of saving someone, patriotism, protection & winning, over severe fear ?  With the underlying tingle of "Devil may Dare", surviving & stomach gripping excitement. Its easy to stay at home, warm & cosy, & do nothing, Let someone else do it but, you need that tiny spark that ignites & I think Bilbo, more than anyone, had it. So yeah, if Bilbo had been Took, Brandybuck or Boffin the story would be so much different, if story there would have been Very Happy

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Re: Critics review 'The Battle of the Five Armies'

Post by Forest Shepherd on Sun Apr 01, 2018 6:35 am

Yeah I agree Azriel that Bilbo's "Tookishness" is part of the reason that Bilbo can even be convinced to leave his home. There's that moment of whimsy while the dwarves are singing, and he feels a bit of regret in the morning when it seems as though they have left without him.

That is a disappointing change in the movies. I mean, Bilbo is right. Adventures are nasty, uncomfortable things, as is shown throughout the journey to the Lonely Mountain. I think the reason it's important that Bilbo would not have gone on this journey without the "kick out of the door" is that it shows that people need to set aside the comfortable and familiar if they are ever to grow and learn and become better people, or hobbits.

And having him so gung-ho right away just makes him look like a punk when he tries to sneak home as the dwarves are sleeping on the goblins' doorstep.

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