Re: Tolkien in General

by **Orwell** on Sat Aug 20, 2011 7:52 am

Pettytyrant101 wrote:And yet without that horror and that sadness would LotR's be the work it is? Would it even exist? Strange are the wheels of fate.

If there was no sadness would there be anything?

by **Pettytyrant101** on Sat Aug 20, 2011 8:13 am

A worrying question- and a bit of a depressing one! Unfortuntely I fear that the only sensible response to finding you are a concious entity in this universe is sadness. Its a place of transitions, everything is fading one way or another from individuals to the very basic blocks of the universe. A place of entropy. Something Tolkien reflects strongly in LotR's.

by **Orwell** on Sat Aug 20, 2011 8:46 am

Pettytyrant101 wrote:A worrying question- and a bit of a depressing one! Unfortuntely I fear that the only sensible response to finding you are a concious entity in this universe is sadness. Its a place of transitions, everything is fading one way or another from individuals to the very basic blocks of the universe. A place of entropy. Something Tolkien reflects strongly in LotR's.

Too true. I think it's why I respond so well to him. He was lucky, though, he believed in Valinor as a reality.

by **Orwell** on Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:46 am

G.S. Smith gone now. The TCBS is down to two! Reminds me why I hate Leaders - stupid ones, that is.

by **Orwell** on Mon Aug 22, 2011 8:57 pm

Orwell wrote:G.S. Smith gone now. The TCBS is down to two! Reminds me why I hate Leaders - stupid ones, that is.

Almost done. Fascinating! Hard to sunnarise, Petty. I guess the best thing for me is obtaining new tidbits about Tolkien's life and his thought processes. A great read! Smile

by **Pettytyrant101** on Mon Aug 22, 2011 9:05 pm

I shall need to visit amazon and pick up a copy. Sounds interesting if melancholy.

by **Orwell** on Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:52 am

Pettytyrant101 wrote:I shall need to visit amazon and pick up a copy. Sounds interesting if melancholy.

Yes, a worthwhile quest, Petty. And yes, it's melancholy. I found out something too - something I probably might have already known if I had paid better attention to my imaginative life - and that is a new aspect of the word "enchantment'.' Inherent to it is the important word within it, i.e. "chant". So when Luthien sings Morgoth into a daze, he is being "lulled" by song! Yeah, yeah, it's obvious, I know, I know that now! Nonetheless, for me it's an epiphany. "Song" as a "spell" itself, not just as the "method" or "means" of casting the spell! Shocked

And me a poet and songwriter! Or am I? Maybe I havent got a "voice" after all, just thought (possibly pompously) that I did. Sad

by **Pettytyrant101** on Wed Aug 24, 2011 4:41 pm

I dont think its necessary to be aware of the power of song in order to deploy it effectively.

by janesmith on Thu Aug 25, 2011 12:54 am

Pettytyrant101 wrote:I dont think its necessary to be aware of the power of song in order to deploy it effectively.

I feel - and I don't mean to criticize, Petty - but you have missed a certain "resonance" in what Orwell said. I think he has found his feminine side. "Female magic" and "enchantment" can never be properly addressed through a male black and white lens - only males (like Orwell, clearly) have the subtlety of Soul to do this. It's not you're fault that you're a roughshod Scotshobbit, of course, and I do not seek to apportion blame in any sense:- Very Happy

by **Pettytyrant101** on Thu Aug 25, 2011 12:59 am

"I think he has found his feminine side."- Jane

Then he would be well advised to put it back where he found it! That sort of thing can lead to terrible confusion- look at poor Lorient. Wink

by janesmith on Thu Aug 25, 2011 1:08 am

Pettytyrant101 wrote:"I think he has found his feminine side."- Jane

Then he would be well advised to put it back where he found it! That sort of thing can lead to terrible confusion- look at poor Lorient.

I can safely say, that bolt flew straight over my head:-Jane

by **Pettytyrant101** on Thu Aug 25, 2011 1:12 am

Your innocence is your shield Jane- and not a little suprising!

by janesmith on Thu Aug 25, 2011 1:16 am

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Your innocence is your shield Jane- and not a little suprising!

I almost think I should back track with open eyes. But women don't operate that way, as you should know by now, I'll just follow my intuition and put yor comment down to being a case of "males" only "sense", and not anythng an intelligent woman need disentangle:-Jane

by **Orwell** on Fri Aug 26, 2011 11:09 pm

I wonder what Tolkien would think of people who have never read the book but have seen the LotR movies? Secondly, would he approve of anything PJ added or changed?

by **Pettytyrant101** on Sat Aug 27, 2011 1:10 am

In answer to the first question I think he could not help but be pleasantly flattered that his work was reaching new people in some form, many of whom would subsequnetly turn to his book- and how it loooked would have flabbergasted him of course. Unfortuntely your second question would also have taken a bit of the shine off it. However having seen some of the previous ideas presented to him for making a film version he might have felt that whilst all PJ's changes were terrible and wrong (as I'm sure he would have) that it was also not as bad as it could have been given previous attempts.
I think like a lot of his literary generation he never really got why people would want to turn a book into a film when you could just read the original book which was always better. At least thats the sentiment I get from reading his responses to varies film proposals put to him over the years.