2015 General Election

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2015 General Election

Post by Lancebloke on Mon Apr 13, 2015 5:44 pm

So.... who are you going to cast a vote for this year? If you cant vote... who would be your choice if you could?

The campaigns are well underway... will be an interesting result I think.
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Re: 2015 General Election

Post by Mrs Figg on Mon Apr 13, 2015 5:50 pm

theres no way in hell I would vote for labour this year. I have never voted Tory and don't intend to start now. Lib Dems are a waste of a vote, so its probably going to be Nigel as a protest vote.

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Re: 2015 General Election

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Mon Apr 13, 2015 6:28 pm

Well no surprise who I will be voting for- SNP.

But its not for any nationalist reasons nor is it a protest vote.
They have ran Scotland competently so far and better than it was by those before them and in much wore economic circumstances, so I don't buy into, or have any fear of them having a voice at Westminster. I think it might help.

Secondly you have to understand why Scottish Labour has collapsed.
They were so dominant and so imbedded for so long they had become a tradition. It had become a nepotistic cronyism, the worse sort of old boys network.
They didn't win votes, they expected votes, and got them just because they were Labour- but they never delivered.
It used to be said if you stood a monkey in a red Rosetta in Glasgow it would still win by a landslide.

When they got the Scottish parliament and became the government it quickly became apparent that no matter what they said, whatever London Labour under Blair, who was increasingly to right of centre for the Scottish electorates liking, and then under Milliband they had to go along with it.
Then when the last leader stepped down, Johann Lamont, she said out aloud what everyone already suspected- the Westminster Labour party treated the Scottish Labour Party as a branch office, and with about as much power and say over policy no matter what the Scottish people elected them to do.
And that capped the complete loss of faith in Labour.
Ground which Sturgeon, who was always more left of centre than Salmond was, although she is falling his line so far on the economic side, has been happy to occupy. And the SNP are mopping up ex-Labour voters.
So I cant vote Labour- Scottish Labour are dead in the water. A busted flush and everyone can see it.
The Lib-Dems- well what needs said.
UKIP -got to be kidding.
Greens- there policies are pie in the sky.

And my last reason for voting SNP is a practical one- every other party made the vow on more powers in the referendum. You don't send the people who make you a promise to make sure they keep the promise.
The SNP are the only people you can trust that if you send them to hold the others to their promise, they will do all they can to do just that.


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Re: 2015 General Election

Post by malickfan on Mon Apr 13, 2015 6:41 pm

What Figgs said, I'm honestly not sure If I'll bother voting, I did vote in 2010, but I don't really trust any of the three main parties anymore, and as bad as it sounds, I don't really know enough about politics to really care who wins.

Voting for one of the minor parties as a protest vote seems just as pointless to me, with the SNP likely to slaughter everyone in Scotland, and alot of people I know very disillusioned with the Big Three, a hung parliament, and another chaotic unpopular coalition seems likely, I don't see my vote making much difference either way, as my constituency has been a Conservative safe seat for decades.

I would be tempted to vote for UKIP as a protest vote (leaving the EU seems nuts, but I do agree immigration should be cut), but I'm not entirely convinced they would know what to do if they got into power in any serious way.

Shrugging

Maybe the monster raving loony party will put forward a candidate.


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Re: 2015 General Election

Post by Lancebloke on Mon Apr 13, 2015 6:52 pm

I am going Blue again this year I think. As much as I dont think Cameron is a good leader... I think the rest are far worse.

I actually think that Sturgeon bird is ok. Its a shame she is part of the SNP and not a party that could get power in the whole UK as I think she would be a strong leader. Only thing I dont agree with is the whole Trident thing!! We need to keep that and the Lib Dem 3 boat thing is a waste of time.

Miliband is a complete moron. He would be the joke leader in the world. Clegg would be the walkover. Farage would put a wall around the country and that Green party woman.... well, not sure any of that lot would have a clue what to do with themselves.

So... blue it is. And hopefully by a long way this time!
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Re: 2015 General Election

Post by Lancebloke on Mon Apr 13, 2015 6:53 pm

And Malick... there are lots of people like you who wouldn't make a difference... until you all voted and then you would make a massive one.
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Re: 2015 General Election

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Mon Apr 13, 2015 6:58 pm

but I do agree immigration should be cut- Malick

I don't think it needs to be cut- I think an economic and social high point should be worked out and that should act as the cap.
But one thats worked out properly not base don scoring political points, which it is now.
Scotland for example needs more immigrants of working age than it has, we have an aging population and not enough numbers. Yet parts of England have a disproportionately larger percent of immigrants.
The second issue is tribal and completely natural.
The place you grow up in no longer resembles the place you know. The identifying markers, how people dressed, how they spoke to one other, in what language, how they decorate their homes, and yes, the colour of their skin, all these things have changed and it feels like another country. You dont feel at home in your country,. And that can easily lead to a sense of loss and then to resentment.
And that is a totally natural human reaction to the situation. And yes it can unfortunately go that step forward into racism, but at root its not racist its just being thrown by losing all the identifying markers you had for what is your culture, and what you know.
The answer is to go back to the way it worked with the first large waves of immigrants after the war and through tot he 70's- generations who proudly adopted being British and did all they could, in the face of appalling racism at times, to integrate themselves into British life.
That has stopped happening and its because we put large numbers of immigrants all in one place, so they have no reason to take on the culture in the way that once occurred, they simply bring their culture with them- just as the UK ex-pats do on the costa del sol.
We need a better spread, immigration targeted to where it needed, not where it is convenient.
That means more council house building- but that is a massively overdue policy anyway. And England would do well to stop the Right the Buy policy too, as the those houses are not being replaced at the rate they are sold.

It just needs more of a level head, after all the stats show that immigrants are net contributors, but that doesn't take into account either peoples feelings, or the strain it puts on public services enduring dramatic cuts.
And its not fair on immigrants who are an easy target to blame for the extra squeeze on resources and have idiots like UKIP and the Tories stirring up those tribal feelings of resentment in a bid to win votes.

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Re: 2015 General Election

Post by bungobaggins on Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:10 pm

malickfan wrote:

Voting for one of the minor parties as a protest vote seems just as pointless to me, with the SNP likely to slaughter everyone in Scotland, and alot of people I know very disillusioned with the Big Three, a hung parliament, and another chaotic unpopular coalition seems likely, I don't see my vote making much difference either way, as my constituency has been a Conservative safe seat for decades.


I know exactly how you feel.

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Re: 2015 General Election

Post by Amarië on Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:24 pm

Wait, what? General election? Forumshire has an army?! Shocked

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Re: 2015 General Election

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:30 pm

Oh dear Diplomatic Incident Ahoy!! Shocked (reads from statement prepared for just such emergencies by the Admin)
As far as I know we have no such army,..insert Ambassadors name here.... Forumshire is an entirely peaceful entity, we definitely, and without any shadow of a doubt, do not have an army, at all, for sure. Especially not a private secret one funded by diverting citizens tax contributions. Thats the very last sort of army we would ever have. I can say without a shadow of a doubt in the Admin's own words, 'We have no official army." Except for Eldo's star wars and anime figure army of course.

I may have added that last bit myself.

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Re: 2015 General Election

Post by Mrs Figg on Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:32 pm

Lancebloke wrote:I am going Blue again this year I think. As much as I dont think Cameron is a good leader... I think the rest are far worse.

I actually think that Sturgeon bird is ok. Its a shame she is part of the SNP and not a party that could get power in the whole UK as I think she would be a strong leader. Only thing I dont agree with is the whole Trident thing!! We need to keep that and the Lib Dem 3 boat thing is a waste of time.

Miliband is a complete moron. He would be the joke leader in the world. Clegg would be the walkover. Farage would put a wall around the country and that Green party woman.... well, not sure any of that lot would have a clue what to do with themselves.

So... blue it is. And hopefully by a long way this time!

I think you are right Lance, I think Cameron is the only real alternative, at least he looks and talks the part of a credible PM. and they seem to be ok at the economy lark. so I think they should just carry on what they started. My real beef with the Tories is the usual disregard for the weak and vulnerable, cutting yet again the disabled benefits like as not. the bastards. so I cant on principle vote for them. I agree about Sturgeon, its a pity she is in the SNP and out to shaft the English asap, if she was representing the English as well I would have voted for her, as long as it wasn't the SNP, because I too think we need Trident. Milliband makes me nervous I cant imagine what disaster he would lead us into.

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Re: 2015 General Election

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:48 pm

I too think we need Trident.- Figg

Try having it right next to England's densest population centre. It has a way of forming opinion.
England wants to have Trident, but it doesn't want it too close.
If it comes to a first strike we are it, but from a strategic point of view thats 2-3 million Scots down, against much higher numbers if it were in England. But we don't think strangely enough its worth billions of public money to remain target number 1.
And Scotland as a nation doesn't need a seat at the top table, many of us just want our place equal with other countries. We don't need Trident to stride about the G8 and the like as the Golden Pass to the big Boys club, we cant keep acting like we still have an Empire at government level, we are just a small successful island off mainland Europe with a long history, and its costing a fortune we no longer have when the money was pouring in from all round the world to keep pretending we are still playing with the super powers.

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Re: 2015 General Election

Post by Mrs Figg on Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:56 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:but I do agree immigration should be cut- Malick
And  its not fair on immigrants who are an easy target to blame for the extra squeeze on resources and have idiots like UKIP and the Tories stirring up those tribal feelings of resentment in a bid to win votes.

you mean like the SNP stirring up nationalistic tribal feelings against the English.

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Re: 2015 General Election

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:03 pm

They dont- they condemn it when it occurs, they have never blamed England, they protest against Westminster, not the English. And they make that abundantly clear at every turn. They want to be independent, that means cutting ties with Westminster, not with England, our neighbour.
The narrative of the SNP stirring up nationalism is one propagated in England by a Unionist media. Even in Scotland there is only 1 newspaper in support of the SNP. You will always get fringe lunatics in any large popular movement of course, but the vat majority of people voting SNP are not doing so out of any dislike for the English people, but form a great distrust and dislike of Westminster.
Its about politics and where decisions are made and in whose best interest, not people or anti-English.

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Re: 2015 General Election

Post by Mrs Figg on Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:13 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:I too think we need Trident.- Figg

Try having it right next to England's densest population centre. It has a way of forming opinion.
England wants to have Trident, but it doesn't want it too close.
If it comes to a first strike we are it, but from a strategic point of view thats 2-3 million Scots down, against much higher numbers if it were in England.

er you do know we live next door to Scotland, do you think the nuke wouldn't wipe out parts of England too. its only 150 miles from Newcastle to Glasgow.

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Re: 2015 General Election

Post by azriel on Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:18 pm

IL be voting Greens. Ive had enough shat from the Tories & the playground sniping from Labour. Clegg is the sneakiest, blob of gutless jelly who couldnt fight his way out of a wet paper bag. Tories are corrupt double dealing Klu Klux Klan members. Inside Labour is a secret sect of preserved Nazi's. Thats how I feel anyhow.

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Re: 2015 General Election

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:23 pm

Figg- Oh it wouldnt be good in the surrounding fallout zone Im sure, but modern nukes are more powerful yet more contained in their utter oblivion range than old cold war versions. And strategically you go for where the casualties are either lowest or of the least importance to you.
Thatcher but the US Navy there, and then the nukes, because she could afford to piss the Scots off, we didn't vote for her anyway and she still got in every time, she didn't need need our votes, so she could do it over the protests at no political cost which she could not have done in England.


Azriel- Solid example of voting on crabbit principles. I approve Azriel! :clap:

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Re: 2015 General Election

Post by Mrs Figg on Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:24 pm

I cant stand any of them either. No

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Re: 2015 General Election

Post by Mrs Figg on Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:29 pm

they wouldn't bother nuking Scotland theres nothing in it but Haggis.

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Re: 2015 General Election

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:33 pm

I wish that were the case, well not literally, I'd need at least some people with a majority short-sighted lassies Nod , and a deep fat fryer, and a kilt, and some stuff I can get properly crabbit about and of course buckie, but I could probably sacrifice the bath tub Shrugging

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Re: 2015 General Election

Post by Mrs Figg on Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:37 pm

ha ha there would be radioactive Neeps running around on spindly little legs. I would pay good money to see that! or mutant Trifid Thistles, or mutant men who pay for drinks! Shocked weird

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Re: 2015 General Election

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:00 pm

Not for so long as I have sporran their wont be! Evil or Very Mad

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Re: 2015 General Election

Post by Lancebloke on Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:07 pm

Petty - the point of Trident is that there wouldnt be a first strike. If it came to that you can be sure it wouldnt just be there. London would be hit, Portsmouth, Plymouth, RAF and army bases, command and control centres.... your arguement about first strike is completely irrelevant where a continuous at sea deterrent exists as first strike would aim to remove the ability for a retaliatory strike to be launched.

A nuclear related accident... understand that.

And I dont think it should be about the G8/top table thing. It should be warning enough that Russia is threatening again. China is dealing with countries we consider enemies. Nuclear technology is proliferating whether we want it to or not and there will be more nations with weapons in the future.

You are good with history. You should know that we have gone in to many wars unprepared... some that have been forced on us. You should also know that many 'peaceful' civilisations have met their end when they have given someone else the opportunity. The world is far from civilised... i dont want to be looking down the shaft of a nuclear missile in 20 years thanks.
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Re: 2015 General Election

Post by azriel on Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:14 pm

I dont want to be looking down anyones shaft thankyou !
I think Briton is under the assumption that all the while we have Trident, Nukes sitting in a big pond in Scotland that its a big enough stick to beat with, putting others off from getting itchy feet to attack ? I see that as a complacent lazy view.

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Re: 2015 General Election

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:18 pm

Lance- I am not saying be unprepared- quite the contrary.
Tridents only real purpose is as a deterrent. We would never use it and if we ever did have to use it we are fucked anyway as you say. All out nuclear war is not one we win, anyone wins really.Which is why we are about to pay billions for a new load to replace the old ones we never used and spent billions on.

What I would do is dump them altogether, invest a third of the money saved into negating national debt so that the public services need not get hit so bad, and funnel the rest into a mix of conventional specialist forces and missile shielding technology. And that would replace Trident as defence rather than deterrent.
Because then we are prepared for conventional war- which is more likely. And in the event of a nuclear war we have the best defence we can get.

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