2015 General Election

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Re: 2015 General Election

Post by Mrs Figg on Sat Apr 18, 2015 9:02 pm

nah they are both just opportunists. they bang on at Miliband every day, if they keep up this pressure it makes them both look weak and desperate.

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Re: 2015 General Election

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sat Apr 18, 2015 9:27 pm

Opportunist in the sense that there is an end aim and that is an independent Scotland- yes.

But she is a practical politician who has to run a country and has done so pretty well.
The SNP have done something I cant think of an equal to, they have increased in the polls in popularity, and importantly in trust, and the party leaders personal ratings, first under Salmond and now under Sturgeon to all time highs, and all whilst being the government in power, presiding over a period in time of severe austerity, massive cuts and world wide recessions. Governments do not normally get more popular under such circumstances.

The strategy is win trust for independence by first proving competence. Its what they have done since they got in as a minority government.

I see no reason for that strategy to change at Westminster, they still have to demonstrate that competence to the Scottish people if we put them in numbers at the bigger stage of Westminster- Scotland will expect results, and they will expect the SNP to get them by doing what they have said they will- support a Labour government on issues they agree on, and negotiate a budget using the promises made during the referendum as the demand for that budget support.
There is no secret here about what they want to do.

When the panel were asked that question "What deals would you do," Milliband ducked the question, she laid it out for all to see exactly what the SNP position was and what sort of deal they were prepared to do.
People find that refreshing in England I think- she didn't give the evasive politicians answer Milliband gave, she just answered the question.

Also came across these interesting factoids from the debate-

'the Guardian reported, by the end of the evening Google data showed that the sixth most searched question was: “Can I vote for the SNP?”

YouGov polling results showing that UK wide a third of Labour and Lib-Dem voters thought Sturgeon won the debate-



There is among a section of the English population just as much an appetite for a voice speaking form what used to be Labour ground, that they long since abandoned top become Tory-lite.
She is appealing to those English voters just as much as she has traditional Scottish labour voters.

If nothing else it may eventually lead to a split in the Labour Party with a more traditional left of centre social democrat Labour appearing in England, politicians tend to migrate to where the votes seem to be.

And they cant ignore the fact the SNP achieved two things no one would ever have believed- they got a majority in a parliament designed by Labour to have a voting system designed to prevent anyone party, ad specifically the SNP, from ever being able to achieve a majority.
And they are on course to wipe out a 50 year long tradition of Labour voting.

Politicians on the left of centre in England will have noticed that.

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Re: 2015 General Election

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sun Apr 19, 2015 6:01 pm

Sturgeon interviewed by Andrew Marr this morning, I thought it was another very consummate performance-


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Re: 2015 General Election

Post by Mrs Figg on Sun Apr 19, 2015 6:47 pm

yet more cunning bribery. this time its fake promises to the north of England. what next? Rolling Eyes

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Re: 2015 General Election

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sun Apr 19, 2015 6:53 pm

Why fake? They have stuck to their principles in Scotland in government, despite the cuts and more to come, we are being hit as hard as anywhere else, and its getting harder and harder to protect funding- and things like the bedroom tax dont help as the government has to divert money to Westminster back out the Scottish budget to offset it. But so far they are doing it.

And its areas like the bedroom tax, where SNP and Labor agree on its abolishment, that SNP votes can get that passed through the House- and that does help people on low incomes all across the UK.

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Re: 2015 General Election

Post by Mrs Figg on Sun Apr 19, 2015 7:11 pm

its fake because its all part of the divide and rule strategy coming from Salmond. putting out lures to the northern English is just another part of their political strategy, its nothing to do with wanting to help the poor northerners, its about putting the cat among the pigeons. its cynical political bullshit and anyone would have to be incredible naïve to believe it.

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Re: 2015 General Election

Post by Mrs Figg on Mon Apr 20, 2015 12:55 am

this from The Telegraph.

The SNP is prepared to paralyse Britain's armed forces and shut down government departments if Ed Miliband is Prime Minister, the party's deputy leader has suggested as Labour admitted for the first time that it is willing to do a deal with the nationalists.
Stewart Hosie said the SNP will to block defence spending if Mr Miliband refuses to scrap the Trident, raising concerns his party will force a US-style government shutdown.

Senior Conservatives warned that the move would see troops go unpaid, equipment supplies like tanks and body armour delayed and major projects postponed.
While the Conservatives have repeatedly warned of the chaos the SNP would bring to the UK, Mr Hosie's remarks represent the first time his party has suggested it is prepared to use its clout in Westminster to put its own spending priorities ahead of the rest of Britain.

It came as Angela Eagle, the shadow leader of the Commons, confirmed for the first time that Labour is prepared to speak to the SNP after the election to "try and build a majority" and get Mr Miliband into power.
David Cameron said that he is "frightened" by the prospect of a Labour government propped up by the SNP and warned spending on hospitals and road projects in England could be slashed as a result.

Grant Shapps, the Conservative party chairman, said: "The SNP are threatening to hold Britain to ransom to guarantee an Ed Miliband government gives them what they want – weaker defences, more borrowing, more debt and more taxes."
In his article, Mr Johnson warns that the SNP are "lefties on steroids" and will form a "calamitous" partnership with Mr Miliband if Labour is in a minority government after the General Election.

He says that the party's success in Scotland, where it is on course to win more than 50 seats, will make Mr Miliband the SNP's "plaything" and leave him "peeping from Alex Salmond's sporran like a baffled baby kangaroo".
He says: "The risk is that by the end of this calamitous partnership there will be so many people in England who are cheesed off by the SNP's behaviour that they will be only too happy to bid Scotland goodbye."

Miss Eagle's comments make the prospect of a power-sharing deal between the SNP and Labour more likely.



This is fucking unbelievable. Appalling and scary. I hope to god Labour doesn't get in. Its the end of the UK.

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Re: 2015 General Election

Post by halfwise on Mon Apr 20, 2015 1:18 am

I know nothing about any of this, but the rhetoric read above just looks like silly fear-mongering. We see it over here all the time and any time I see that kind of language I immediately reject any points made as the purest hoo-haw. Doesn't matter which side it comes from.

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Re: 2015 General Election

Post by Mrs Figg on Mon Apr 20, 2015 1:29 am

its all hoo-haw, but with an element of truth behind it.

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Re: 2015 General Election

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Mon Apr 20, 2015 2:44 am

its fake because its all part of the divide and rule strategy coming from Salmond. putting out lures to the northern English is just another part of their political strategy, its nothing to do with wanting to help the poor northerners, its about putting the cat among the pigeons. its cynical political bullshit and anyone would have to be incredible naïve to believe it.- Figg

Sturgeon lays out the strategy perfectly clearly in that interview-

"I have got to persuade and convince people that, in the House of Commons after the election, the SNP will not be any kind of destructive force, we want to be a constructive force"

Its the exact same strategy they have deployed since they became a minority government- persuasion through actions, and its what has brought them the successes they have now, why would they abandon this for a plan to somehow destroy Westminster, which would only harm their chances of ever getting Scottish independence.

As to it being naive- if someone tells you they will do something, then they go and do it, and then they keep doing this, it is not naive to think that when they tell you again they will try to do something that they will indeed do so.
The SNP have not been given trust in Scotland, we dont do giving trust, but it has been earned.

I also find it odd you have adopted the Tory habit of denying Sturgeon her place and the respect she is due as leader of her party, in favour of talking about Salmond and presenting him as a controlling bogey man- there is no evidence for that and none whatsoever in the character of Sturgeon that she would put up with such an arrangement for a moment.
It is her party, she is First Minister of Scotland and head of our government- at least giver her respect for that accomplishment rather than writing her off as just a tool of a man.


the rhetoric read above just looks like silly fear-mongering. - Halfy


Its is. And of a very cheap and nasty sort.
None of what is in that story is accurate beyond that you could argue that once the SNP get into power they will advocate all english children be shot dead- its just as likely and has about as much chance of passing.
The SNP at the very best will have about 50 MP's, enough to influence and to haggle over policy being passed through the House, nothing like enough to dictate terms, or make laws up.

On the debt front for example the SNP have ran a balanced Scottish budget every year they have been in power which Westminster has ran a deficit every year.
And when the SNP were a minority government they got the Scottish budget passed ever single year on the back of Tory votes- when it comes to economic policy there is actually quite a lot of shared ground there.
The SNP are an ideological party only in that they have a set of beliefs, but because the central one, independence, brought together people for all sides, they don't have a traditional right or left approach- they are social democrats on social policy and left of centre, but they are right of centre on business and tax.

The Tories know this perfectly well of course which is why they supported SNP's budgets for years, this is just mischief making and scare mongering, again.

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Re: 2015 General Election

Post by David H on Mon Apr 20, 2015 6:58 am

Mrs Figg wrote:It came as Angela Eagle, the Shadow Leader of the Commons....

That sounds like a comic book name, and "Shadow Leader" sounds pretty sinister if you ask me! Sofa


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Re: 2015 General Election

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Mon Apr 20, 2015 5:41 pm

SNP launched its manifesto today- heres the headline points of it-


A UK spending increase of 0.5% a year to allow at least £140bn extra investment in the economy and public services

An additional £9.5bn above inflation spending on the NHS across the UK by 2020/21

Backing for plans for an annual UK target of 100,000 affordable homes

An increase in the minimum wage to £8.70 by 2020

Restoration of the 50p top income tax rate for those earning more than £150,000

An increase in the Employment Allowance from £2,000 per business per year to £6,000

Oppose the £3bn cut in disability support

Retain the triple lock on pensions and protect the winter fuel allowance

Cancel the renewal of Trident nuclear missile system, based in Scotland


Austerity-

Modest" spending increases - 0.5% above inflation - in each year of the next parliament

Reduce the deficit and the national debt at a "slightly slower" rate

Restoration of the 50p tax rate for the highest earners, a mansion tax, and a bankers' bonus tax

Money from not renewing Trident to be invested in education, childcare and the NHS.

Health Service-

The SNP would vote for an increase in health spending across the UK of £24bn by 2020/21 - £9.5bn above inflation.

That would deliver a total increase to the budget of NHS Scotland of £2bn by 2020/21

SNP MPs would vote against any further privatisation of the NHS in England

They would back any moves to restore the NHS to a fully public service

Independence-

Using SNP votes at Westminster to ensure the promises made during the referendum are delivered

Demand that the proposals of the Smith Commission on more powers for Scotland are delivered quickly and in full

Oppose any effort to undermine devolution

Seek agreement that the Scottish Parliament should move to "full financial responsibility"

Prioritise early devolution of powers over employment policy, including the minimum wage, welfare, business taxes, national insurance and equality policy

Pensions-

The SNP supports a single-tier pension of £160 per week

The "triple lock" should continue, guaranteeing that pensions will always rise by inflation, earnings or 2.5%

Protect the Winter Fuel Allowance

Oppose the abolition of Savings Credit

Seek a review of plans to increase the state pension age beyond 66

Childcare-

Oppose plans for further cuts in child benefit and tax credits

Vote to increase benefits at least in line with CPI inflation

Support an increase in free childcare to 30 hours per week by 2020

Bedroom tax-

Vote for the immediate abolition of the "bedroom tax"

Scottish government is spending £35m a year to compensate those affected

Savings would be invested in measures to tackle food poverty

Education-

Guarantee continuation of free university education in Scotland

Support the reduction of tuition fees across the UK

Extend the availability of Educational Maintenance Allowance in Scotland

Europe-

Opposing withdrawal from the European Union

Oppose a referendum on membership of the EU

If there is an EU referendum, seek to ensure Scotland cannot be taken out "against its will"

Immigration-

It seeks the reintroduction of the post study work visa so foreign students educated in Scotland can make "a contribution to our economy"

Work-

The SNP supports increases in the personal tax allowance

Would back a 20% increase in the Work Allowance - the amount people are allowed to earn before their benefit is cut

Supports tough action to end "exploitative" zero hours contracts.

Democratic reform-

SNP MPs would vote for the abolition of the House of Lords

They would vote for the replacement of the first-past-the-post voting system with proportional representation

Other-

Support for continuing the moratorium on fracking

Support lower energy bills for consumers by forcing energy companies to pass on lower energy prices

Increased investment through BBC Scotland so that a "fairer share" of the licence fee is spent in Scotland

Back budget plans to invest more in the infrastructure of Scotland and the north of England, including the commissioning of high speed rail linking Glasgow, Edinburgh and the north of England

Use influence at Westminster to ensure the UK matches Scotland's "ambitious" commitments to carbon reduction


-BBC News

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Re: 2015 General Election

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:06 pm

Thought this was a good piece from the BBC's Scottish Political Editor Brian Taylor-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-32383500

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Re: 2015 General Election

Post by Mrs Figg on Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:14 pm

I also find it odd you have adopted the Tory habit of denying Sturgeon her place and the respect she is due as leader of her party, in favour of talking about Salmond and presenting him as a controlling bogey man- there is no evidence for that and none whatsoever in the character of Sturgeon that she would put up with such an arrangement for a moment.
It is her party, she is First Minister of Scotland and head of our government- at least giver her respect for that accomplishment rather than writing her off as just a tool of a man


slap laugh :clap: you crack me up

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Re: 2015 General Election

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:24 pm

I don't see why, I think its insulting, both to her and to the office of First minister.
She is leader of her party and First Minister of Scotland, insisting that really Salmond is behind everything, when as I say there is no evidence he is, or that she would allow him to be- if there is present it- is disrespectful to and trivializes her accomplishments.

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Re: 2015 General Election

Post by Eldorion on Mon Apr 20, 2015 9:04 pm

Wow @ that article above. I mean, I honestly do understand why people are wary of having separatists in government, but it's kinda bizarre how the rhetoric has shifted from Scotland being too poor and weak to be independent, then from "what do you mean, of course Scotland could succeed, please let this help our poll numbers", to the SNP about to become the secret puppetmasters of all Britain.

I did have to laugh at this imagery though: Laughing

He says that the party's success in Scotland, where it is on course to win more than 50 seats, will make Mr Miliband the SNP's "plaything" and leave him "peeping from Alex Salmond's sporran like a baffled baby kangaroo".
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Re: 2015 General Election

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:43 pm

Well the SNP are still dominating headlines- mainly thanks to the Tories who seem to think that talking up the SNP bogey man is win-win for them- it keeps support high for the SNP in Scotland, harming Labour, and thy can terrify middle- England into thinking Sturgeon is marching into England with an army to enforce communism on them.
They wheeled out former PM John Major today, who has a long track record of opposing Scottish devolution, just before devolution came into being he warned there was '24 hours to save the union'.
Today he is  trotting out all the scare lines for the Tories-

'Sir John used a speech in the Midlands to say a Labour-SNP government would mean families paying with "higher taxes, more debts and fewer jobs".
He said a future Labour government would be subjected to a "daily dose of blackmail" from the nationalists.
Sir John used a speech in the Midlands to say a Labour-SNP government would mean families paying with "higher taxes, more debts and fewer jobs".
He said a future Labour government would be subjected to a "daily dose of blackmail" from the nationalists.'- BBC

But this Tory strategy is not going down well with all Tories, former Tory Scottish Secretary Lord Forsyth warned-

'that his party was playing a "short-term and dangerous" game by building up the SNP.

"We've had the dilemma for Conservatives, which is they want to be the largest party at Westminster and therefore some see the fact that the nationalists are going to take seats in Scotland will be helpful," he said. "But that is a short-term and dangerous view which threatens the integrity of our country."

And Lord Steel, former head of the Lib-Dems said -

' the Conservatives' arguments were "rather odd", given that they had supported a minority SNP administration in the Scottish Parliament between 2007 and 2011.
"I have always liked John Major but I don't think he has ever understood Scotland," he told BBC Radio 4's Today programme. "He didn't when he was prime minister and he is taking the same line now."
He added: "I think Michael Forsyth is correct that the Tories are really doing the SNP a favour by bringing them to centre-stage of the campaign."- BBC


It kind of creates the feeling that Westminster has given up on Scotland and are instead circling the wagons.

Which is odd when you consider this statement-

"Scotland's voice should be leading the UK, not leaving it"- David Cameron during the referendum campaign.

Whats the matter Dave, don't you think our voice should still lead the country? It was your idea  Wink

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Re: 2015 General Election

Post by azriel on Mon Apr 27, 2015 3:47 pm


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Re: 2015 General Election

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Mon Apr 27, 2015 3:56 pm

lol!

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Re: 2015 General Election

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Thu Apr 30, 2015 8:07 am

This is class- the front page of todays Sun newspaper.
On the left the English edition coming out for the Tories, and giving as reason 2 for doing so 'stop the SNP running the country'
whilst on the right is today's Scottish edition- coming out backing the SNP!



All of this comes amid polls showing the SNP could take every single Scottish seat.
Now I find this hard to believe, no matter how consistent the polls are, I hope its true, but I have serious doubts.
I have always said I thought they would pick up between 20-30 seats, which from a starting point of 4 would be a hell of an achievement in itself, getting all 59 seats seems impossible.

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Re: 2015 General Election

Post by David H on Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:40 pm

Stirring controversy to sell papers! Rolling Eyes Smile
Still, it should help get a good turnout at the polls.

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Re: 2015 General Election

Post by Bluebottle on Thu Apr 30, 2015 4:12 pm

Well, I for one think you would be better off not letting Rupert Murdch choose your governement. How the right wing media handle these things is so apparent. Just look at how Milliband has been played up as a buffoon. (He might or might not be, but is he any more than the other party leaders?)

In that sort of political climate, where the media will use personal attacs to win votes for one side, I would certainly base my vote on the policies the parties stand for and not the people who will be enacting them. Do you really want to risk your vote being influenced by bullying and playground tactics emanating from people like Rupert Murdoch? I wouldn't.

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Re: 2015 General Election

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Thu Apr 30, 2015 4:42 pm

I don't think a newspaper declaring who they support will change a thing. Even less so in these days of multi-media and declining paper sales than ever before.
But it does go to show that its not necessarily the political angle or policies Murdoch supports its simply where he money is- there is no money to be made supporting the Tories in Scotland, and now it seems the same is true of Labour.

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Re: 2015 General Election

Post by malickfan on Thu Apr 30, 2015 4:47 pm

Bluebottle wrote: Do you really want to risk your vote being influenced by bullying and playground tactics emanating from people like Rupert Murdoch? I wouldn't.

The real question for me is, If people are swayed by the opinions and 'journalism' of The Sun are their votes really worth chasing Laughing

Hell I read the paper (It's cheap and my family like the football coverage), but their demonizing of Miliband and Sturgeon is kinda pathetic even for a tabloid (It recently included a 3 page story about a woman addicted to eating washing up sponges...), a few years ago they supported labour, it's supposed to be aimed more at the working/middle class, but I don't think it will have any effect on the Tories becoming more popular in those areas.

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Re: 2015 General Election

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Thu Apr 30, 2015 4:54 pm

their demonizing of Miliband and Sturgeon is kinda pathetic even for a tabloid- Malick

The Mail is the worst by far however. They recently called Sturgeon 'The Most Dangerous Woman in Britain' like she was a top ISIS commander or something.

The Sun used to style itself as the peoples paper, speaking for the people, but they have been a Tory rag in England for years, and a neutral, leaning towards SNP but not quite committing sort of way so long as it helps sales in Scotland rag.
People read it for the sports, the entertainment and the tits, but I don't think anyone seriously gets their news from it.
Bit like how I imagine FOX news functions. But with less tits, actually maybe not on FOX!

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Pettytyrant101
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