Game of Thrones [2]

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Re: Game of Thrones [2]

Post by bungobaggins on Tue Jun 16, 2015 8:23 pm

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Re: Game of Thrones [2]

Post by Bluebottle on Tue Jun 16, 2015 9:26 pm

“We had an assistant named Dave Hill,” say Benioff and Weiss. “One day last summer he walked into our office and said, ‘You know that kid whose family gets massacred by the wildlings? The one who runs to Castle Black to let them know the wildlings are nearby?’

‘Yeah?’

‘Well,’ said Dave, ‘doesn’t it make sense that he’d stay at Castle Black and become a Night’s Watch recruit? Where else is he going to go?’

‘You’re right,’ we said. ‘That does make sense.’

‘And what if during the battle for Castle Black, he’s the one who ends up killing Ygritte?’

This year, Dave Hill is a writer on the show.”

You couldn't make it up..

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Re: Game of Thrones [2]

Post by Eldorion on Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:34 pm

bungobaggins wrote:Gonna have to rewatch Breaking Bad one of these days. Very Happy

I was thinking of making a Shanksgiving Day spectacular of it this year. Smile
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Re: Game of Thrones [2]

Post by Eldorion on Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:42 pm

Mrs Figg wrote:Laughing  I think I have been watching a different show. episode 10 was flipping amazing from start to finish.

I'm glad you've enjoyed the show, Figgs.  I think it's cool that people are enjoying it, but I find myself asking the same "are we watching the same thing?" question sometimes.  Not so much with this thread, but on other sites that I frequent, it makes me feel like I'm talking back in 2012-13 talking about The Hobbit before DOS alienated so many people. Razz The really tiring thing is how many people respond to any criticism of the show with "you're just mad that it's different from the book".

I'd be genuinely curious to hear why anyone thought that the escalating conflict at the Wall was well developed, or how Brienne killing an already dying Stannis was a meaningful contribution to either of their arcs, or how the "bad pussy" line was anything but terrible.  Okay, that last one might not be fair, since I know a lot of show fans who didn't care for Dorne at all, but what about the magically disappearing Greyjoys and Riverlands, or the incessant teleporting.  None of these things alone would have made me so fed up with the show (the LOTR movies and Avatar: The Last Airbender are my favorite fantasy movies and TV, respecitively, and both have really egregious violations of geography, just as an example).  But cumulatively, it just results in an incredibly sloppy and -- IMO of course -- poorly written season. And these are just a few examples.

The actor who plays Stannis just incredible understated acting, he could say everything with one look. I found it very satisfying to watch, maybe I am easily pleased.

I agree that Dillane does a pretty great job  But just like Evangeline Lilly, Richard Armitage, Lee Pace, Hugo Weaving, Cate Blanchett, and others couldn't salvage the terrible material they were given in The Hobbit; Dillane, Cunningham, and the many other talented actors on GOT are similarly let down by the writing.
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Re: Game of Thrones [2]

Post by Bluebottle on Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:50 pm

I'm not so sure. I think Dillaine to a alrge degree managed to raise his portrayal above the writing. I think the amount of fans the characvter had speaks to that. At least up until the part where they had him burn his daughter to stop it snowing. And no one could sell the writing in the finale. That's not his fault though. He is definitely one of the most prominently let down by the writing though. I definitely agree with that. Because he was Stannis, right down to the teeth grinding. I just wish they had written him the more conflicted grey compelling character of Geroges story, instead of turning him into a vaillain. The only time they ever wrote him in a positive light was when they wanted to set up his relationship with Shireen to make the burning more of a shocking impactful moment.

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Re: Game of Thrones [2]

Post by Eldorion on Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:52 pm

Bluebottle wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/16/arts/television/in-game-of-thrones-finale-a-breakdown-in-storytelling.html

Wow. Shocked That's a pretty crushing review. And by the New York Times no less.

The Lost comparison is an interesting one, given GRRM's stated fear of "pulling a Lost", which led to a brief (mostly one-sided) Twitter feud between him and Damon Lindelof. Razz

Anyway, I think the NYT article has a point, but you guys could probably guess that already. Wink
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Re: Game of Thrones [2]

Post by Eldorion on Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:53 pm

Bluebottle wrote:I'm not so sure. I think Dillaine to a alrge degree managed to raise his portrayal above the writing. I think the amount of fans the characvter had speaks to that. At least up until the part where they had him burn his daughter to stop it snowing. And no one could sell the writing in the finale. That's not his fault though. He is definitely one of the most prominently let down by the writing though. I definitely agree with that. Because he was Stannis, right down to the teeth grinding. I just wish they had written him the more conflicted grey compelling character of Geroges story, instead of turning him into a vaillain. The only time they ever wrote him in a positive light was when they wanted to set up his relationship with Shireen to make the burning more of a shocking impactful moment.

I was thinking mainly of season five, but you make a point that is worth reiterating. I think the writing for Stannis was a little more favorable to him in earlier seasons though, which is why Dillane was able to do more with it.
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Re: Game of Thrones [2]

Post by Bluebottle on Tue Jun 16, 2015 11:08 pm

They skewed his characer pretty much from the get go. His opinions were always secondary or as a result of either Davos or Mels advice. And they played him up as a believer, which he definitely was not in the books. I guess one shoud have known when they had him burn Lord Florent for not burning his idols to the seven and not for trying to sell his daughter to the Lannisters and relinquish his claim to the throne where they were taking the character.Then again in their memory they had Stannis burning people the first time we saw him on screen, so I guess it could definitely have been worse. I actually find it odd how compelling a character Dillaine managed to make him considering the writing.

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Re: Game of Thrones [2]

Post by Eldorion on Tue Jun 16, 2015 11:17 pm

I think it's mainly just that fans wanted a capable, powerful character who was able to restore justice to the story (moreso that than the realm Razz).  Too many seasons of the Lannisters, Freys, and others getting away with it meant people wanted a savior.  His ultra-strict ideology of justice would suck to live under, of course, but it's downright refreshing after living under the fear of "anyone can die at any time for no reason" for so long (whether that's accurate or not). Being the Mannis and a general badass helped of course, and whatever else they did with the character, D&D didn't take away his military prowess until S5.

I'm tempted to say that a lot the fandom is spillover from the book character's popularity but I know he had plenty of show-only fans, and I also wasn't active enough in the fandom to say how popular Stannis was pre-Dillane.
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Re: Game of Thrones [2]

Post by Bluebottle on Tue Jun 16, 2015 11:35 pm

There's definitely something to that. I gues the way they wrote him was kind of conflicted. They didn't like his chartacter and pushed up or invented bad qualities for him at every oportunity, but they couldn't get past his book story, and as they keep adhering to the plot while changing circumstances he would have to do things like go north to save his kingdom, save it to rule it, not rule it to save it, whether they wanted to aknowledge it or not. And in the books he is a truely compelling charatcer. I think that did spill over in a way to the series. And Dillaines acting just imbues him with this.. not charisma, but somehting like it. There is something in show Stannis that people could respect despite his actions right up until.. you know..

In the books I think a lot of people see him as the harder more realisitic option to the saviour like character in Daenrys. But this being Georges writing nothing is black and white. Rather grey. (A word one should be careful of using in Forumshire. Razz)

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Re: Game of Thrones [2]

Post by bungobaggins on Tue Jun 16, 2015 11:43 pm

Bluebottle wrote:
“We had an assistant named Dave Hill,” say Benioff and Weiss. “One day last summer he walked into our office and said, ‘You know that kid whose family gets massacred by the wildlings? The one who runs to Castle Black to let them know the wildlings are nearby?’

‘Yeah?’

‘Well,’ said Dave, ‘doesn’t it make sense that he’d stay at Castle Black and become a Night’s Watch recruit? Where else is he going to go?’

‘You’re right,’ we said. ‘That does make sense.’

‘And what if during the battle for Castle Black, he’s the one who ends up killing Ygritte?’

This year, Dave Hill is a writer on the show.”

You couldn't make it up..

This is borderline PJ and Co. levels of insanity.
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Re: Game of Thrones [2]

Post by Bluebottle on Wed Jun 17, 2015 1:50 pm

Oh, that's just one of several gems they've come out with this season. I should make a list really, but there's probably too many. Razz

Like.. this is from one part of one Inside the Episode feature.

Bluebottle wrote:Those interviews are full of gems though.

"When Stannis makes up his mind he never changes it."

Stannis refuses Mellisandres suggestion to burn Shireen, next episode..

"Oh, this snowfall is getting kind of annoying."

Burns Shireen.

And why did he go north again. Was it because he got it wrong? He put the cart in front of the horse? Was he trying to win the throne to save the kingdom, when he should have been trying to save the kingdom to win the throne?

So much for the king who cared. (Another dropped line.)

Even in the show it was Mellisandre who changed his mind and convinced him to go north. To fight the real war.. for Winterfell.

".. this choice between ambition and family values. And he chooses ambition."

:facepalm:

"..set you free on the path to Winterfell."

Confirming for them he basically burned his only daughter and heir to stop a storm and attack a castle.

"The first time we saw him he was burning people.."

Yeah.. no he wasn't.

I don't think I would recommend watching it, but it's here anyway.. (Warning: Might lead to heavy eye rolling, and loss of faith in the showrunners.)

https://youtu.be/NfLScJVXBHQ

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Re: Game of Thrones [2]

Post by bungobaggins on Wed Jun 17, 2015 2:57 pm

Why did Jon Snow stand in line for six hours outside the Apple store?

Spoiler:
For the watch.
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Re: Game of Thrones [2]

Post by Bluebottle on Wed Jun 17, 2015 3:44 pm

:facepalm: Laughing

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Re: Game of Thrones [2]

Post by Bluebottle on Wed Jun 17, 2015 3:46 pm

I liked this comment on Stephen Dillaine.

"...here's an actor who's working with a clusterfuck of a character and he still delivers something of the essence of book Stannis.."

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Re: Game of Thrones [2]

Post by Bluebottle on Wed Jun 17, 2015 3:52 pm


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Re: Game of Thrones [2]

Post by Eldorion on Wed Jun 17, 2015 4:42 pm

bungobaggins wrote:Why did Jon Snow stand in line for six hours outside the Apple store?

Spoiler:
For the watch.

lol!
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Re: Game of Thrones [2]

Post by Bluebottle on Wed Jun 17, 2015 6:22 pm

I'll just leave this here. (For the winner of the War if the Five Kings, by default.)


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Re: Game of Thrones [2]

Post by Mrs Figg on Wed Jun 17, 2015 7:03 pm

never mind all that. Shocked found out that the head 'shame' nun is a real woman! I was convinced it was a bloke in drag.

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Re: Game of Thrones [2]

Post by bungobaggins on Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:44 pm

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Re: Game of Thrones [2]

Post by Bluebottle on Wed Jun 17, 2015 10:24 pm

Oh, you think he's gone then? Very Happy

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Re: Game of Thrones [2]

Post by Mrs Figg on Wed Jun 17, 2015 11:01 pm

no way is he gone. Very Happy

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Re: Game of Thrones [2]

Post by Bluebottle on Wed Jun 17, 2015 11:18 pm

They've seemingly been ramping up their pr machine to sow some doubt, but I'm not sure I'm convinced either to be honest. Razz

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Re: Game of Thrones [2]

Post by Forest Shepherd on Thu Jun 18, 2015 5:52 am

Nah, he's not gone.


By the by, when we first see Melisandra and Stannis, they are in fact burning the ancient wooden idols on the beach, not people. It is not until after the defeat of the Blackwater that they actually burn anyone, last I checked.

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Re: Game of Thrones [2]

Post by Eldorion on Thu Jun 18, 2015 7:51 am

We should take bets in case any of us are still watching next season. Razz

Jon: alive (or will be resurrected)
Stannis: dead
Sansa and Theon: alive
Myrcella: dead
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