Game of Thrones [2]

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Re: Game of Thrones [2]

Post by Lancebloke on Thu Jun 18, 2015 8:02 am

I think we are all pretty sure that Jon won't remain dead.

My theory....

Jon dies
Melisandre resurrects
Jon released from vow over the watch
Melisandre realises he is the person she sees in her visions... the sword is long claw
Jon leads liberation of Winterfell.
Alliser has become lord commander.
Alliser dies humiliating death, wildlings contribute to securing castle black/wall
Jon reinstated as lord commander, Sansa top dog of the north.

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Re: Game of Thrones [2]

Post by Bluebottle on Thu Jun 18, 2015 9:27 am

I'm not sure I even feel like speculating. Razz

Jon is dead. He, going by his last words, warged into Olly, who will become the 998th commander of the Nights Watch. Olly is Azor Ahai reborn, born amidst salt, his tears when his parents died, and smoke, his village burning.

Stannis will turn into Lady Stoneheart and burn Boltons across the North.

Sansa and Theon will be dropped like the Iron Born and never heard from again. They are not important now they no longer service Ramsays storyline.

Myrcella will be mentioned only in passing to justify Jamie bringing Trystaine with him on another brotrip to the Riverlands to keep him safe from Cersei. Trystaine now being single can join in in the more or less consensual sexposition.

That really should sound ridiculous, but I'm not so sure anymore..

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Re: Game of Thrones [2]

Post by Bluebottle on Thu Jun 18, 2015 9:31 am

"Jon released from vow over the watch."

You know I've heard this theory bandied about a lot, but I never bought into it. It sounds to me like getting off on a technicality, which in my opinion would be pretty much the furthest possible thing from what Jons character would do. Shrugging

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Re: Game of Thrones [2]

Post by Eldorion on Thu Jun 18, 2015 10:09 am

Agreed.  People who advance that theory have gotta be trolling (like most of the Euron=Daario crowd) or IMO totally misread Jon's character. I guess because the Pink Letter convinced Jon to abandon the Wall that could be a justification for the theory, but I think it just goes to show that Jon wouldn't leave because of something that happened to him, but rather because of the events in the rest of the Seven Kingdoms.
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Re: Game of Thrones [2]

Post by Bluebottle on Thu Jun 18, 2015 10:41 am

I guess people want to see him claim his birthright, but the whole point of the Nights Watch is that you swear away lands and titles. Shrugging

I did hear someone say that Jons actions re: the Pink Letter might have been within the vows as Ramsay threatened the NW. I'm not so sure, but Jon does think "..if this is oathbreaking.." meaning there is an if.

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Re: Game of Thrones [2]

Post by Bluebottle on Thu Jun 18, 2015 11:09 am

Howland Reed is deifintely the High Sparrow though. Nod

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Re: Game of Thrones [2]

Post by Bluebottle on Thu Jun 18, 2015 2:06 pm

Seriously though, look at the season as a whole and it does not paint a flattering picture:

- Women were made to suffer for their feminine qualities, unless they were stripped of them entirely and turned into a “badass.”
- Motherhood led to the death of two women, to the point where they literally changed the gender of the planned character to make sure it happened that way.
- Sex slaves fawned over Tyrion and offered him free sex.
- Women were viewed as completely interchangeable, regardless of their characterizations or actual logic of swapping situations.
- Sansa talked about how kind and great Tyrion was three seconds before getting raped on screen, and was put in that situation because they felt the audience wouldn’t be able to care about a girl we “didn’t know.”
- Sansa was raped to service the plotline of a man.
- The most feminist plotline in the books that centered around a woman’s refusal to be infantalized was replaced with a story about hypersexualized brown women who only cared about vengeance and who ended up accomplishing nothing other than killing a straight, white girl with a kiss (some unfortunate other implications there).
-  A 2-episode arc about poison was introduced so a young actor could show us her boobs.
- A boy who should have been 8 was aged up so that he could be raped but have it played off as a joke because the older woman abusing him was hot.
- The “walk of shame” for the male victim tastefully cropped out his naughty bits, whereas it was so crucial for us to see Cersei’s privates that they used a body double and CGI (and I actually think the nakedness in that scene was tasteful and affecting overall, but the double standard speaks for itself).
- Pedophilia and the beating of young girls was shown to us for shock value.
- Logic was defied so that a young girl could get burned at the stake, and then everything that unfolded afterwards made sure that her death didn’t do anything or matter at all.
- Dany was made stupid and irrational to make way for Tyrion and his mansplainin’ whereas Jon (her most obvious ADWD parallel) was altered so that he could go run around in an awesome battle and be an Action Hero™.
- Dany’s moment of riding off on her dragon was changed from being proactive and an attempt to saving Drogon from others to being a damsel in distress that needed to be spirited away and then felt like a joy ride.
- A love triangle was scripted where a woman was actively jealous of a rape victim because she was so in love with the abuser.

“Bad pussy” indeed. And seriously, this is skimming the surface. So yeah, misogyny was definitely the biggest take-away.
http://gotgifsandmusings.tumblr.com/post/121789536832/what-was-the-takeaway-for-you-from-season-5-for

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Re: Game of Thrones [2]

Post by Mrs Figg on Thu Jun 18, 2015 2:54 pm

Lancebloke wrote:I think we are all pretty sure that Jon won't remain dead.

My theory....

Jon dies
Melisandre resurrects
Jon released from vow over the watch
Melisandre realises he is the person she sees in her visions... the sword is long claw
Jon leads liberation of Winterfell.
Alliser has become lord commander.
Alliser dies humiliating death, wildlings contribute to securing castle black/wall
Jon reinstated as lord commander, Sansa top dog of the north.

my theory is..

Jon dies and does a Gandalf the White and returns transformed. Jon is a noble person at the moment but he lacks the magic quality of someone like Dany. he needs to be transformed into someone with a lot more spooky power if he wants to defeat the WWs. When he comes back he will be physically transformed as well, probably with silver hair or blue eyes, or both. I think he will take on the attributes of his Direwolf, ie the white hair/fur. I am not sure if Melisandre will have anything to do with this. I think Bran will by now have the power to save and transform his 'brother'. Bran has a more wholesome power of the old ways/Winterfell/the Tree etc, whereas Melisandre has the wrong type of power, as Jon is associated with Ice not Fire. Melisandre will probably try to ally herself with Jon but he will reject her offer of help.
Once Jon is back in power Alliser had better run, very fast. As should the Boltons.
Sansa tries to go back to the Wall to find Jon, but maybe goes with Theon to his home first along with Brienne and Pod. Brienne finds a home in Theons court as the protector of Sansa.

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Re: Game of Thrones [2]

Post by Mrs Figg on Thu Jun 18, 2015 2:58 pm

Bluebottle wrote:
Seriously though, look at the season as a whole and it does not paint a flattering picture:

- Women were made to suffer for their feminine qualities, unless they were stripped of them entirely and turned into a “badass.”
- Motherhood led to the death of two women, to the point where they literally changed the gender of the planned character to make sure it happened that way.
- Sex slaves fawned over Tyrion and offered him free sex.
- Women were viewed as completely interchangeable, regardless of their characterizations or actual logic of swapping situations.
- Sansa talked about how kind and great Tyrion was three seconds before getting raped on screen, and was put in that situation because they felt the audience wouldn’t be able to care about a girl we “didn’t know.”
- Sansa was raped to service the plotline of a man.
- The most feminist plotline in the books that centered around a woman’s refusal to be infantalized was replaced with a story about hypersexualized brown women who only cared about vengeance and who ended up accomplishing nothing other than killing a straight, white girl with a kiss (some unfortunate other implications there).
-  A 2-episode arc about poison was introduced so a young actor could show us her boobs.
- A boy who should have been 8 was aged up so that he could be raped but have it played off as a joke because the older woman abusing him was hot.
- The “walk of shame” for the male victim tastefully cropped out his naughty bits, whereas it was so crucial for us to see Cersei’s privates that they used a body double and CGI (and I actually think the nakedness in that scene was tasteful and affecting overall, but the double standard speaks for itself).
- Pedophilia and the beating of young girls was shown to us for shock value.
- Logic was defied so that a young girl could get burned at the stake, and then everything that unfolded afterwards made sure that her death didn’t do anything or matter at all.
- Dany was made stupid and irrational to make way for Tyrion and his mansplainin’ whereas Jon (her most obvious ADWD parallel) was altered so that he could go run around in an awesome battle and be an Action Hero™.
- Dany’s moment of riding off on her dragon was changed from being proactive and an attempt to saving Drogon from others to being a damsel in distress that needed to be spirited away and then felt like a joy ride.
- A love triangle was scripted where a woman was actively jealous of a rape victim because she was so in love with the abuser.

“Bad pussy” indeed. And seriously, this is skimming the surface. So yeah, misogyny was definitely the biggest take-away.
http://gotgifsandmusings.tumblr.com/post/121789536832/what-was-the-takeaway-for-you-from-season-5-for

sorry but that despise woman thing is bullshit.

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Re: Game of Thrones [2]

Post by Bluebottle on Thu Jun 18, 2015 3:00 pm

Well, they did make Cersei as a character really empowered. Shrugging Which is kind of fitting as her primary characteristic in the books is her internalized misogyny. Razz

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Re: Game of Thrones [2]

Post by Bluebottle on Thu Jun 18, 2015 3:11 pm

I find it hilarious that all the promotional material we got told us that the Sand Snakes were going to be “the new badass characters” of season 5 and that viewers would love them. They assumed because they’re badass fighters and because they’re Oberyn’s daughters (who is a fan-favourite) that the audience would automatically be drawn to them.

Except they were just soooo fucking over-the-top. They didn’t even bother turning them into three dimensional characters who have realistic personalities - I don’t know a single person (whether they’ve read the books or not) who liked how they were portrayed on the show. People loved Oberyn because he was witty, sexy and sassy, because he was tragic to some extent, because he stood up to the “evil” Lannisters and, let’s be real, also because Pedro is extremely charismatic.

But D&D seem to think that it’s the “sexy, vengeful, exotic fighter” trope that people were drawn to. Not the actual character who had a captivating personality. So they just cut all other qualities, just focused on those superficial aspects and tripled their intensity to turn the Sand Snakes into cheap, fucked up versions of their dad.

At least that’s the only explanation I have for those terrible characterizations. Which is a real pity because they had great potential and could have really improved the show and it’s female representation.
http://antigot.tumblr.com/post/121751715667/i-dont-like-how-the-show-handled-the-sand-snakes

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Re: Game of Thrones [2]

Post by Lancebloke on Thu Jun 18, 2015 3:19 pm

Bluebottle wrote:"Jon released from vow over the watch."

You know I've heard this theory bandied about a lot, but I never bought into it. It sounds to me like getting off on a technicality, which in my opinion would be pretty much the furthest possible thing from what Jons character would do. Shrugging

I don't mean he will want to be released... but the watch will not let him back in and effectively use the technicality to keep him out.

The Winterfell retaking and restoring the North's strong support of the watch will result in him somehow being accepted as not being a traitor alongside the wildlings giving their own lives in defence of the wall (probably during the first test of it by the WWs).

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Re: Game of Thrones [2]

Post by Bluebottle on Thu Jun 18, 2015 4:08 pm

Ah, ok. Well, that's an inriguing idea certainly. I'm not sure it'll happen like that in the books, but the show will almost certainly differ quite widely on this point so it's certainly a possibility.

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Re: Game of Thrones [2]

Post by Mrs Figg on Thu Jun 18, 2015 11:03 pm

I don't think Myrcella will die, I reckon Tristaine will have the antidote, or Bronn will give her some of his blood to drink as its got the antidote in it. then they will sail under cover back to Dorne and then kick those silly women seven shades of shit.

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Re: Game of Thrones [2]

Post by Bluebottle on Fri Jun 19, 2015 1:03 pm


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Re: Game of Thrones [2]

Post by bungobaggins on Sun Jun 21, 2015 10:09 pm

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Re: Game of Thrones [2]

Post by Forest Shepherd on Mon Jun 22, 2015 5:27 am

Laughing


By the by, I just got back from San Andreas with my niece. Who should appear as a far-from-home young Brit but our own Rickon Stark! Not only that, but his name in the movie is Olly. I mean...
This cannot be a mere coincidence.

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Re: Game of Thrones [2]

Post by Eldorion on Mon Jun 22, 2015 5:30 am

Now that you mention it, have Olly and Rickon ever appeared on screen together?  I think not...
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Re: Game of Thrones [2]

Post by Forest Shepherd on Mon Jun 22, 2015 6:24 am

Well... I was thinking more along the lines of his name being an inside joke of some kind. Sort of like Peter Capaldi playing the part of the W.H.O. doctor in World War Z some months prior to his appointment to the role of the Doctor.

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Re: Game of Thrones [2]

Post by Eldorion on Mon Jun 22, 2015 3:38 pm

Nah, I bet they're also both a time-traveling younger version of Euron. Nod

{{{I do see what you mean though. Wink}}}
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Re: Game of Thrones [2]

Post by Bluebottle on Tue Jun 23, 2015 8:08 pm

Talking Olly, I have to admit I L-O-L'd  at the actor being aware of the Olly nods at things tumblr page. Razz

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rk83nxGUzOQ&feature=youtu.be&t=280

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Re: Game of Thrones [2]

Post by Bluebottle on Tue Jun 23, 2015 8:10 pm

If the show itself didn't demonstrate the showrunners not knowing what they were doing well enough, listening to what they actually say about it removes all doubt.. Rolling Eyes

https://pawntoplayer.wordpress.com/2015/06/22/not-a-review-part-two-inside-the-season/

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Re: Game of Thrones [2]

Post by Eldorion on Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:30 pm

A lot of the comments in the "Inside the Episode" features speak for themselves in how bad they are, but that blog post was really reaching with some of the attempted psychoanalysis and suggested motives for D&D.  While some of the guesses may be correct, I find the exercise rather off-putting.

Other bits are just nit-picking.  Like, is the use of the word "military" instead of "martial" really that big a deal?  I can find plenty of sources that use the world military in a medieval context.  That said, I'll concede it's a little imprecise given that Westeros is a pre-Military Revolution society.   However, there are professional soldiers on Planetos, so calling it "a world that still doesn't have a military" is neither precise nor accurate. Razz

Edit: and this guy thinks the Tyrells are ambitious but apparently not the Lannisters? Da fuq?

Fake edit 2: I'll stop combing through looking for nits of my own; hopefully I made my point.


Last edited by Eldorion on Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Game of Thrones [2]

Post by Bluebottle on Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:34 pm

Yeah, mostly they just talk complete nonsense. But that does lead you to ask, is that intentional or are they really that clueless?

I don't think either alternative says much good about them.

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Re: Game of Thrones [2]

Post by Bluebottle on Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:36 pm

Mostly I just despair. Razz

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