Tolkien Names Used in Other Properties

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Tolkien Names Used in Other Properties

Post by Radaghast on Sat Sep 26, 2015 3:55 pm

For some reason, the Marvel Comics character Sauron popped into my head this morning. Sauron was an "energy vampire" in the form of an anthropomorphized pterodactyl (or a wereodactyl, I guess) who was a foe of the X-Men, and who loudly proclaimed (to himself, apparently) that he would name himself after the LotR bad guy.



http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Karl_Lykos_(Earth-616)

This got me thinking of other names used by Marvel and other companies. Marvel had a white winged horse named Aragorn that was genetically fashioned to be the mount for their Black Knight character. There was also another white pegasus named Strider.



http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Aragorn_(Earth-616)

Then there's a character called Morgoth that appeared in He-Man and the Masters of the Universe. I remember seeing this episode and apparently naive enough to think the name might have been a coincidence :facepalm:



http://he-man.wikia.com/wiki/Morgoth

Anyone know of any others?

Also, the question occurred to me whether permission was granted for any of these characters. The use of 'orcs' was permitted for use by TSR/Wizards of the Coast for Dungeons & Dragons, but 'hobbit' and 'balrog' was not (curiously, 'warg' is in the public domain, but was changed to 'worg' for D&D). Anyone know anything?

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Re: Tolkien Names Used in Other Properties

Post by azriel on Sat Sep 26, 2015 5:08 pm

Im not up on comics but a lot of Bands have Tolkien words as song titles..........mostly heavy metal bands....




Sources:
http://tolkien-music.com/

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Re: Tolkien Names Used in Other Properties

Post by Radaghast on Sat Sep 26, 2015 5:14 pm

Interesting. Plus, of course, there are the references in a few Led Zeppelin songs. And Rush has a song called "Rivendell".

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Re: Tolkien Names Used in Other Properties

Post by azriel on Sat Sep 26, 2015 5:38 pm

And of course..........................


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Re: Tolkien Names Used in Other Properties

Post by azriel on Sat Sep 26, 2015 5:47 pm


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Re: Tolkien Names Used in Other Properties

Post by Elthir on Sat Sep 26, 2015 6:20 pm

Reminds me of Tolkien's wish...

'I wish that 'Copyright' could protect names, as well as extracts. It is a form of invention I take a great deal of trouble over, and pleasure in; and really it is quite as difficult (often more so) as, say, lines of verse.'

JRR Tolkien, 1964, letter 258, to Rayner Unwin

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Re: Tolkien Names Used in Other Properties

Post by Bluebottle on Sat Sep 26, 2015 6:33 pm

Radaghast wrote:Also, the question occurred to me whether permission was granted for any of these characters. The use of 'orcs' was permitted for use by TSR/Wizards of the Coast for Dungeons & Dragons, but 'hobbit' and 'balrog' was not (curiously, 'warg' is in the public domain, but was changed to 'worg' for D&D). Anyone know anything?

Hm, protected how do you mean? There are three ways to legally protect intellectual property. Well.. three and a half. You have copyright, and related rights, like public performances by performing artist and non-artistic photography, trademarks and patents.

Patents protect things like technical inventions, so, would not be relevant in this case. Copyright protects an artistic effort captured in some form. But there are limits to copyright protection. And while as little as eight words were deemed to merit copyright by the EU-court, in the Google case in Belgium, one word, like a name, would not be enough. Trademarks protect the rights holders brands, names, logos, used in marketing efforts. But they have to be registered, are these names registered b the Tolkien estate?, and somehow used in competition with the rights holders commercial efforts and there has to be a danger of confusion. I don't really see it as applicable. If they released Sauron doll perhaps.. or something like that.. use the name commercially. As for using it in fiction, as an homage. Nah, don't think that would breach any of the rights holders rights in any case.

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Re: Tolkien Names Used in Other Properties

Post by Tinuviel on Sun Sep 27, 2015 1:42 am

There was a character named Galadriel in the Nick Sparks movie "The Last Song" with Miley Cyrus, but that was in direct reference to LOTR. Oddly not the first person I've heard being named that though (one of the voice actresses for "Until Dawn" was named Galadriel)

Robert Plant's dog was named Strider, just an fyi.

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Re: Tolkien Names Used in Other Properties

Post by Radaghast on Sun Sep 27, 2015 2:42 am

Bluebottle wrote:Patents protect things like technical inventions, so, would not be relevant in this case. Copyright protects an artistic effort captured in some form. But there are limits to copyright protection. And while as little as eight words were deemed to merit copyright by the EU-court, in the Google case in Belgium, one word, like a name, would not be enough. Trademarks protect the rights holders brands, names, logos, used in marketing efforts. But they have to be registered, are these names registered b the Tolkien estate?, and somehow used in competition with the rights holders commercial efforts and there has to be a danger of confusion. I don't really see it as applicable. If they released Sauron doll perhaps.. or something like that.. use the name commercially. As for using it in fiction, as an homage. Nah, don't think that would breach any of the rights holders rights in any case.
Interesting. Would "hobbit" and "balrog" be considered brands?

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Re: Tolkien Names Used in Other Properties

Post by Radaghast on Sun Sep 27, 2015 2:44 am

Tinuviel wrote:There was a character named Galadriel in the Nick Sparks movie "The Last Song" with Miley Cyrus, but that was in direct reference to LOTR. Oddly not the first person I've heard being named that though (one of the voice actresses for "Until Dawn" was named Galadriel)
Interesting. The Marvel character directly referenced Tolkien as well.

Robert Plant's dog was named Strider, just an fyi.
Yup. Even he wrote a song about it Smile


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Re: Tolkien Names Used in Other Properties

Post by malickfan on Sun Sep 27, 2015 12:14 pm

I can't think of any Tolkien names cropping up in other media, but I know there is (was?) kitchen outfitter in Winchester called Rivendell for some reason:



And I've met at least three people with dogs named either Frodo or Bilbo, probably not what you were getting at Raddy, but Tolkien certainly seems ingrained in pop culture and I don't think a few references or names being borrowed does much harm.

Tolkien may have invented hobbits as a race, but he didn't invent the word (Wasn't a 'hobbit' a unit if measurement in the Middle ages?) so I'm not sure if the estate would be able to copyright the name (depends on the context I suppose).

I vaguely recall reading in The History Of The Hobbit John Rateliffe pointing out the word had been used in other, earlier folklore and fantasy works, and Tolkien certainly wasn't the first man to feature diminutive earth dwelling humans in a fantasy setting...

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Re: Tolkien Names Used in Other Properties

Post by azriel on Sun Sep 27, 2015 12:26 pm

Drrrr ! how dumb am I ( answers on a postcard ) We have a lovely garden center just up the road from me called  "Athelas Plants" Very Happy

www.athelasplants.co.uk/

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Re: Tolkien Names Used in Other Properties

Post by Bluebottle on Sun Sep 27, 2015 12:43 pm

There was this fjordlandian bad from the 70's that used to name their instrumentals after Tolkien characters.


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Re: Tolkien Names Used in Other Properties

Post by azriel on Sun Sep 27, 2015 5:00 pm

There is a company called "Spiral Direct", sells Goth gear, T-shirts etc & over the yrs they have often had what I believe to be Tolkien-ish inspired clothing............


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Re: Tolkien Names Used in Other Properties

Post by azriel on Sun Sep 27, 2015 5:15 pm

And I know this isnt Smaug but, this is how I see him, or rather his colour.


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Re: Tolkien Names Used in Other Properties

Post by halfwise on Sun Sep 27, 2015 5:52 pm

Elthir wrote:Reminds me of Tolkien's wish...

'I wish that 'Copyright' could protect names, as well as extracts. It is a form of invention I take a great deal of trouble over, and pleasure in; and really it is quite as difficult (often more so) as, say, lines of verse.'

JRR Tolkien, 1964, letter 258, to Rayner Unwin


It always amazes me how Tolkien would start with names before story, and so it makes sense that he would consider it as thought intensive as composing poetry. Nice quote.

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Re: Tolkien Names Used in Other Properties

Post by Elthir on Sun Sep 27, 2015 6:21 pm

azriel wrote:There is a company called "Spiral Direct", sells Goth gear, T-shirts etc & over the yrs they have often had what I believe to be Tolkien-ish inspired clothing............

Well that's obviously an illustration of Mangog (read Balrog) battling Woden (read Gandalf) in the Norse version of HE Double Hockey Sticks (read Heck).



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Re: Tolkien Names Used in Other Properties

Post by Forest Shepherd on Sun Sep 27, 2015 6:34 pm

There's "Balrog" from Street Fighter. Although he's also known as M. Bison.


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