Doctor Who [12]

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Doctor Who [12]

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:35 pm

Thanks for the extra info Eldo- I didn't bother to read the actual reviews, didn't have time, doesn't sound like a missed much- might be a handy place to get links to proper press reviews however if nothing else.

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Re: Doctor Who [12]

Post by Mrs Figg on Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:38 pm

don't bother.

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Re: Doctor Who [12]

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:44 pm

I have always tried to include press reviews after an episode for those like me, like to read them, but unlike me cant be arsed to go find them all. Ive done it since this thread started I think. I usually use Gallifrey Base as a one stop source, good for UK press, not so good for overseas.

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Re: Doctor Who [12]

Post by Mrs Figg on Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:52 pm

I prefer to make my own mind up, plus the press always verge on hyperventilating hyperbole in their reviews, its never based on impartial truth as they sometimes gloss over the mind numbing boredom of a few of these episodes. a few of these episodes have been mediocre at best, but everything has to be 'brilliant!, amazing! and superb! they get paid to gush. its better to read the disgruntled comments below to get a more truthful reaction.

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Re: Doctor Who [12]

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Tue Oct 27, 2015 11:07 pm

I dont find that the case when you read a lot- the Radio Times a re good example this series- very negative on the opening two parter and lukewarm to cold on the next two parter, against the general grain of praise in the press for those four episodes.
The last two parter with Ishildur- more mixed reviews, but the Radio Times reviewer absolutely raved about it.
It goes to show I think the breadth of styles of story that you can get in a Who series- its not the place to look for consistency because not being consistent is what it is does- story to story the setting, style, tone, direction can all change completely.
Onlyy the Doctor, companion(s), and TARDIS remain a constant.

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Re: Doctor Who [12]

Post by Nagual on Wed Oct 28, 2015 1:22 pm

I have never understood the need to self justify liking something by reading reviews after I've watched something. Either you like or don't, either the reviewers like or don't. The rationale behind liking or disliking is irrelevant once you've actually saw it. Review sites can't be used to proclaim someone elses like or dislike is wrong or flawed.

As far as consistency is concerned, I feel between the current and previous series we have the least consistent adaptation of the doctor. It's probably down to the boss chap bringing in lots of new writers. However I've noticed I seem to prefer the stories of non RM episodes. I wonder if it's time for him to stop writing and concentrate on making the series more stable.
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Re: Doctor Who [12]

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Oct 28, 2015 2:05 pm

Well I like to hear other viewpoints- I read and watch as many negative reviews as I do positive- although notably not so this series where there have been notably fewer negative ones to read or view.

The other handy aspect of reading them is Who is stuffed with references, not just to itself but to films, books, history, ect and you often with better reviews get insight into the writing process form seeing some of the 'inspirations'.
For example I think its telling last weeks episode writer cited the Wicked Lady as an influence, you can see it aspects of the story, the bawdy humour and the idea that she seeks excitement by being a Highwayman during the night.
As someone who likes to write, I find it informative to see how other writers use their influences within their own narratives.

Also I just find a well written, throughout and developed review, to be pleasurable to read as any other well crafted bit of writing.
I sometimes feel critics get an overly hard time by those who say its a job for those who cant do the something so they complain about it- a good critic isn't just complaining, they are conveying the reasons for why in an informative, engaging, well crafted piece of writing or dialogue- and that is doing something.

'we have the least consistent adaptation of the doctor.'

I would disagree there.
Moffat said form the start they had a plan for the development of this Doctor- series 8 was all about him coming to terms again with who he is and being quite caustic, grumpy and rude to everyone and occasionally morally dubious.

In fact what Moffat in hindsight has clearly done is hit the reset button- and nicked the set up narratively for the first Doctor- the grumpy, morally dubious old man who mellows and changes under the influence of his companions and experiences.
It was risky but I think it was probably the trump card in Moffats 'make the audience accept Capaldi as the Doctor' masterplan he set in motion from the first 12 episode.
And judging from the general praise for him this series it seems to have paid off, like the first Doctor people gave grown to love the 12th precisely because they saw him go from grumpy and isolated- not even a hug- to the 12 we now have.
And the beats are in the series narrative- series 8 the getting to realise who he is, what he really stands for, xmas special is where we see him mellowing, thinking he had lost Clara and the idea he has been given a second chance, and now this series we have the finished result of all that- the 12th Doctor.

Where you see inconsistency I see long term character development.

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Re: Doctor Who [12]

Post by Forest Shepherd on Wed Oct 28, 2015 3:24 pm

Hey everyone, Petty is arguing with his sock! Shocked
Razz

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Re: Doctor Who [12]

Post by Mrs Figg on Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:51 pm

I don't think even petty would be that weird Shocked mind you, the buckie may have rotted parts of his brain by now.

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Re: Doctor Who [12]

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:59 pm

Buckie doesn't rot the brain!!! Rather it, um, hold on, I had it there, no, wait, it'll come back to me! Mad drunken

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Re: Doctor Who [12]

Post by Mrs Figg on Wed Oct 28, 2015 9:00 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Well I like to hear other viewpoints- I read and watch as many negative reviews as I do positive- although notably not so this series where there have been notably fewer negative ones to read or view.

The other handy aspect of reading them is Who is stuffed with references, not just to itself but to films, books, history, ect and you often with better reviews get insight into the writing process form seeing some of the 'inspirations'.
For example I think its telling last weeks episode writer cited the Wicked Lady as an influence, you can see it aspects of the story, the bawdy humour and the idea that she seeks excitement by being a Highwayman during the night.
As someone who likes to write, I find it informative to see how other writers use their influences within their own narratives.

She might have thought she was referencing the Wicked Lady, but having watched the Wicked Lady myself the only reference actually in the episode is a female dressed up as highwayman, which is pretty flimsy as a reference. plus the writer looked decidedly scared to death, she was nearly trembling poor love. I wonder why. The bawdy humour was obviously not her idea its pretty clear where the crude knob gags came from, and it wasn't her, she wouldn't have had the nerve.

'we have the least consistent adaptation of the doctor.'

I would disagree there.
Moffat said form the start they had a plan for the development of this Doctor- series 8 was all about him coming to terms again with who he is and being quite caustic, grumpy and rude to everyone and occasionally morally dubious.

I would disagree here. The Doctor has been all over the shop. They only really pinned him down recently, like two episodes ago


In fact what Moffat in hindsight has clearly done is hit the reset button- and nicked the set up narratively for the first Doctor- the grumpy, morally dubious old man who mellows and changes under the influence of his companions and experiences.
It was risky but I think it was probably the trump card in Moffats 'make the audience accept Capaldi as the Doctor' masterplan he set in motion from the first 12 episode.

you mean copy because he hasn't got a clue?

And judging from the general praise for him this series it seems to have paid off, like the first Doctor people gave grown to love the 12th precisely because they saw him go from grumpy and isolated- not even a hug- to the 12 we now have.
And the beats are in the series narrative- series 8 the getting to realise who he is, what he really stands for, xmas special is where we see him mellowing, thinking he had lost Clara and the idea he has been given a second chance, and now this series we have the finished result of all that- the 12th Doctor.

Most people I have read are bored and disillusioned by the whole sorry mess.

Where you see inconsistency I see long term character development.

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Re: Doctor Who [12]

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Oct 28, 2015 9:07 pm

Most people I have read are bored and disillusioned by the whole sorry mess.- Figg

I dont know where you get most from.
I read a lot of Who reviews- good and bad and there is certainly a clear majority in praise of Capladi's performance. Even in reviews which are critical of the show he is usually their exception.

Some sure, but most I would say definitely not from all the stuff I've read.
And even some of the shows harsher critics- Mr Tardis, Lipmannette, Claudia Boyen have singled out Capaldi this series as a plus point for his performance.

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Re: Doctor Who [12]

Post by Mrs Figg on Wed Oct 28, 2015 9:18 pm

I wouldn't say they were the harsher critics, they give credit where its due, I find them pretty fair minded. don't know Mr Tardis.

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Re: Doctor Who [12]

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Oct 28, 2015 9:25 pm

Well you've got to admit when even He Who Moans has a good thing to say about the Doctor, Capaldi must be doing something right!

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Re: Doctor Who [12]

Post by Mrs Figg on Wed Oct 28, 2015 11:22 pm

he hasn't done reviews of the last two parter, maybe he cant be bothered?

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Re: Doctor Who [12]

Post by Mrs Figg on Thu Oct 29, 2015 2:20 pm


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Re: Doctor Who [12]

Post by Bluebottle on Thu Oct 29, 2015 2:29 pm



Ah.. modern television. Rolling Eyes

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Re: Doctor Who [12]

Post by Mrs Figg on Thu Oct 29, 2015 2:49 pm

Tyrell sass Razz well that's a good thing.

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Re: Doctor Who [12]

Post by Amarië on Thu Oct 29, 2015 6:31 pm

Mrs Figg wrote:

Laughing

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Re: Doctor Who [12]

Post by Bluebottle on Fri Oct 30, 2015 12:17 am



Yeah..

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Re: Doctor Who [12]

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Oct 30, 2015 12:39 am

Moffat Bingo is funny- but it when people take the claims seriously they show themselves up in general (or their lack of Who knowledge more like as most of them are Who tropes, not Moffat tropes)

Some examples-

Doctor/Companion abusive relationship- as its been since the first episode when the Doctor kidnapped Barbara and Ian against their will with no way to return them to their own time. Followed almost immediately by his lying to them leading to putting their lives in jeopardy.

The Doctor is a crank arse- has he has been many times in his long life- the 1st Doctor, the 3rd and the 6th were all very cranky indeed (more so than any NUWho Doctor even now)and all the others have had moments of it.

Recycles one of his old monsters- what like the showrunners have always done? Like Daleks, Cybermen, Sontarans, Slitheen?

'forgot how to canon'- Who has no official narrative canon as the premise is time and therefore history can be changed by the events of any episode.
The only consent is what happens to the Doctor.

No B-plots- a lot of classic Who never had one.

The Doctor interferes with his own Time Line- he has done since since at least the Three Doctors.

The Doctor is dark and shit- what like 10 at the end of Family of Blood?

The Doctor moans about his new/old look- what like 2 did, or 3, or 4, or 9?

A Hot girls life revolves around the Doctor- I assume they must mean Rose!

"Humans are stupid"- 'nicks himself shaving he does a ten minute routine on species he is cleverer than'- Rose about 9

The Doctor lets someone die and doesn't give a shit- 1 was going to cave a mans head in with a rock because the guy was injured and slowing him down. The 4th Doctor was chastised for his seeming casual unfeeling reaction to the death of people- in fact its come up as a reoccurring theme several times.


As I say humorous for what it is, but as information next to useless and mainly ignorant of the show it seeks to mock.

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Re: Doctor Who [12]

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Oct 30, 2015 11:28 am

Good news for me- bad for Figg- looks like Moffats not going anywhere for at least another series-

'Speaking to Observer.com, Moffat commented: “I’m just embarking on the new [season] and it’s terrifying. I have to make all that again.”- Cultbox

Also raises more questions about what format series 10 will take.

Moffat on what he is most proud of about the current season-

“We got some new writers in who I thought were really great. Jamie Mathieson and Peter Harness, and thank God for voices of new people writing. I love that, having new writers this year. Sarah Dollard, Cat Tregenna, so it’s always good getting people who are new to the show.”

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Re: Doctor Who [12]

Post by Mrs Figg on Fri Oct 30, 2015 12:49 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Moffat Bingo is funny- but it when people take the claims seriously they show themselves up in general (or their lack of Who knowledge more like as most of them are Who tropes, not Moffat tropes)

As I say humorous for what it is, but as information next to useless and mainly ignorant of the show it seeks to mock.

its funny because its true. they are observations which people recognize, most of which are applicable to Moffat alone rather than Who in general. its not based on ignorance but knowledge. if it wasn't it wouldn't be funny. Moffat takes the Who tropes and hammers them until they become tired cliché. such as, 'the Doctor is dark and shit' 'the Doctor wonders whether he is a good man or not' 'controlling natural impulse' yawn. As for the insulting Claras body, the mature woman who wants the Doctors D, and the misogyny, hot girl who's life revolves round the Doctor, that's pure Moffat.

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Re: Doctor Who [12]

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Oct 30, 2015 1:26 pm

most of which are applicable to Moffat alone rather than Who in general.- Figg

There's that word you keep using again, 'most'.

There are 24 supposed Moffat things on it, out of which 12 are applicable to Who in general.
Out of the other 12, 5 are just different ways of making the same accusation- he is sexist.
And of the renaming 6 some are just reaching- such as the Doctor acts like Sherlock- this one is doubly ignorant. First if were the case it should be the other way round as Moffat Who pre-dates Moffat Sherlock. But more importantly Sherlock is one of the inspirations of the Doctors character, he has always been a bit like Sherlock Holmes. So really I should count this one in with 'applies to Who in general not Moffat'.

As to tropes all writers have tropes, its impossible not to. Look at Gaiman, anyone who knows his work could not have been overly surprised when The Doctors Wife featured a place not quite part of normal reality where we found patchwork people made of different people body parts.
And anyone who has read Gaiman will have immediately spotted the Gaiman tropes.
You don't read more and more Pratchett books because they are all different- you read them for Pratchetts tropes, they are the hook that keep you coming back to a writer.
Sure if like you you hate the writer then you wont like seeing his tropes, but if you do then they are part of the joy of his writing, just as with all other writers who have ever lived.

Now there an argument separate from that which says no matter how good the writer the show should cycle them every x amount of years because of the nature of the show.
I generally agree with that and stick with my current prediction Moffat will leave at the end of series 10 because he feels its time. And unless the BBC sack him (very unlikely) I don't see him leaving for any other reason.

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Re: Doctor Who [12]

Post by David H on Fri Oct 30, 2015 3:24 pm

Watched the Eighth Doctor movie last night. Not half bad! All the tips of the hat to the Bella Lugosi / Boris Karloff era Universal Studios horror films were fun, especially leading up to Halloween.

One question: The plot hinges on the Doctor as half-human. Did I miss this? What's the story?


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