Doctor Who [12]

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Re: Doctor Who [12]

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Oct 30, 2015 3:33 pm

No you didn't miss anything.

The general line is - The Doctor Lies.

It has never been mentioned before that one tv film, and never again. He has always otherwise presented himself and been presented as fully Gallifreyean.
Given how it appears Moffat is one of those people who cant sleep at night worrying about inconsistencies like this, I wouldn't be surprised if we finally get some sort of explanation of it.

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Re: Doctor Who [12]

Post by Mrs Figg on Fri Oct 30, 2015 6:44 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:most of which are applicable to Moffat alone rather than Who in general.- Figg

There's that word you keep using again, 'most'.

There are 24 supposed Moffat things on it, out of which 12 are applicable to Who in general.
Out of the other 12, 5 are just different ways of making the same accusation- he is sexist.
And of the renaming 6 some are just reaching- such as the Doctor acts like Sherlock- this one is doubly ignorant. First if were the case it should be the other way round as Moffat Who pre-dates Moffat Sherlock. But more importantly Sherlock is one of the inspirations of the Doctors character, he has always been a bit like Sherlock Holmes. So really I should count this one in with 'applies to Who in general not Moffat'.

As to tropes all writers have tropes, its impossible not to. Look at Gaiman, anyone who knows his work could not have been overly surprised when The Doctors Wife featured a place not quite part of normal reality where we found patchwork people made of different people body parts.
And anyone who has read Gaiman will have immediately spotted the Gaiman tropes.
You don't read more and more Pratchett books because they are all different- you read them for Pratchetts tropes, they are the hook that keep you coming back to a writer.
Sure if like you you hate the writer then you wont like seeing his tropes, but if you do then they are part of the joy of his writing, just as with all other writers who have ever lived.

Now there an argument separate from that which says no matter how good the writer the show should cycle them every x amount of years because of the nature of the show.
I generally agree with that and stick with my current prediction Moffat will leave at the end of series 10 because he feels its time. And unless the BBC sack him (very unlikely) I don't see him leaving for any other reason.

most writers have tropes, the trick is not to bore people or make them too obvious. the whole reason the Moffat Bingo is funny is because those tropes are now so forced they are the opposite of fresh and interesting. the opposite of creative and anyone could now write a parody Moffat by numbers episode. lets see..............
A group of Zygons try to take over the world, one of them pretends to be the Queen, who falls in love with the Doctor and tries to get him alone in her bedroom so she can polish his crown jewels, then Clara walks in and the Doctor tells her to get out as she is too fat, no not fat, her bum is too large, but what the heck humans are all stupid and take offense at the slightest thing, so Clara stumps off in a huff only to get herself turned into a Zygon, the Doctor wonders if he has been a bitch and sets off trying to find her, then he realises he doesn't give a shit and cant be arsed to go back in time and save her. because he is a cranky Scottish arse with eyebrows.

here to help. Very Happy

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Re: Doctor Who [12]

Post by David H on Fri Oct 30, 2015 8:17 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:

The general line is - The Doctor Lies.


But it was the Master who kept saying the that the Doctor was half human as he shoved first Lee and then Grace in front of the Eye of Harmony because it responded to their humanity because the Doctor's mother was human. It reminded me more than a little of Spock's family history.

Is the looking into the Eye of Harmony thing done in other incarnations of Dr Who, or was this an outlier as well?

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Re: Doctor Who [12]

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Oct 30, 2015 9:00 pm

You are treading in tricky ground here David- there is no official excuse, just fan theories and stuff glimpsed in spin off media.

Time Lords are psychic, so the Doctor lying that he was half human was a trick to fool the Master, who alsop believed it because the Doctor was using the Eye of Harmony to amplify the lie. The Doctor rigged the whole thing up as he was several moves ahead the whole time.
That's a fan theory.

The Eye of Harmony itself is another bugger of a thing.
Originally the Eye of Harmony was a star.
Rassilon, one of the Three Founders of the Time Lords created a 'stellar manipulator' worn like a gauntlet, hence its name the Hand of Rassilon- which Rassilon was able to use to harness the energy of a star and manipulate it.
The star was placed beneath the Citadel on Gallifrey and was the power source for the civilisation as well as for time-travel.

The original Eye was placed beneath the Citadel in the capital city of Gallifrey-




After the Time War and with Gallifrey lost the TARDIS had to stop on a natural rift in Time in Cardiff to refuel as there was no Eye to draw power from.
But by the time of the 11th Doctor and the episode Into the TARDIS we see that the Doctor has constructed a new Eye of Harmony inside his TARDIS. A massive feat equalling that of Rasilion.

Eye of Harmony built by 11 currently providing the TARDIS energy-



Now the Eye in the tv film seems a bit different- as it shouldn't be in the ship some have speculated its not but thats its a portal to the Eye on Gallifrey- which should be the only one in existence at that time.

Eye of Harmony onboard the TARDIS as seen in tv movie-



There is also some confusion over if the Eye and the Heart of the TARDIS are connected or a different name for the same thing- but as that would be spoilers I'll leave it for you to watch (9's final episode)

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Re: Doctor Who [12]

Post by David H on Sat Oct 31, 2015 5:52 am

Pettytyrant101 wrote:You are treading in tricky ground here David- there is no official excuse, just fan theories and stuff glimpsed in spin off media.

Time Lords are psychic, so the Doctor lying that he was half human was a trick to fool the Master, who alsop believed it because the Doctor was using the Eye of Harmony to amplify the lie. The Doctor rigged the whole thing up as he was several moves ahead the whole time.
That's a fan theory.


That only creates more inconsistencies. :facepalm:

I think I'll just enjoy it for it clearly is: a failed reboot and a stand-alone episode.

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Re: Doctor Who [12]

Post by Orwell on Sat Oct 31, 2015 8:19 am

I seem to be missing most of the episodes, only part one of episode one in fact. But all this trope talk is disillusioning... Of course, everything is a trope in the end, so I s'pose I shouldn't fret... Very Happy

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Re: Doctor Who [12]

Post by malickfan on Sat Oct 31, 2015 11:03 am

David H wrote:Watched the Eighth Doctor movie last night. Not half bad! All the tips of the hat to the Bella Lugosi / Boris Karloff era Universal Studios horror films were fun, especially leading up to Halloween.

One question: The plot hinges on the Doctor as half-human. Did I miss this? What's the story?


The 8th Doctor TV Movie is rather odd at times (There's a book, 'The Eight Doctors', which picks up immediately afterwards...the writer (Terrence Dicks-a regular writer for Classic Who) spends the opening of the book crapping on the previous story, and the 8th Doctor is almost immediately hit by another bout of amnesia, promptly forgetting most of the events of the TV Movie...needless to say Dicks wasn't a fan of the TV Movie Laughing )

, but I thoroughly enjoyed it, and McGann is my favourite Doctor. Regarding the Half Human stuff I believe it was a holdover from a previous script (from memory the TV Movie started life as a straight reboot for the American Market, the doctor and master would be half brothers, the tardis would contain the spirit of the Doctors dead grandfather, and he would go looking for his lost timelord explorer father who had married a victorian princess on Earth...or some nonsense along those lines), the TV series has seemed content to ignore the Half Human stuff, but in the expanded media it's been touched on in 8's comic and Novel adventures, from the wiki:

During the early hours of his life, the Doctor remarked that he was half-human on his mother's side. (TV: Doctor Who) According to patriarchal psychic river jellyfish-like creatures on the planet Hyspero, he only thought he had a human mother, but was actually loomed. (PROSE: The Scarlet Empress) He later called his half-human lineage "debatable," (PROSE: Autumn Mist) before telling Chantir he had tricked the Master into believing he was half-human through the use of a Chameleon Arch. (COMIC: The Forgotten)

A major plot point of the BBC Eighth Doctor novels, was a future timewar (not that timewar, though it also ends in Gallifrey being blown up-no wonder 8 didn't want to fight in the timwar, he'd already averted a war and destroyed Gallifrey once before...) bleeding back across his timeline, it's hinted a group known as Faction Paradox:

http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Faction_Paradox

screw up his timeline so much that's he simultaneously, fully timelord and half human at the same time, whether that's canon or interesting is of course open to debate...I prefer the theory 'It was a stupid mistake and we should all quietly pretend it didn't happen'.

The clip of Frankenstein shown on the TV Monitor when he regenerates holds special significance, as McGann travels with Mary Shelley (Author of Frankenstein) in the audios, in their first story together, Mary's Story (one of my favorite Audios) it's revealed that in universe the Doctor was the direct inspiration for Frakenstein's Monster...

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Re: Doctor Who [12]

Post by David H on Sat Oct 31, 2015 12:40 pm

Thanks Malick. It's interesting to know that there's so much more to the eighth Doctor than I'd imagined, also that they continued the Frankenstein theme (I presume McGann's Doctor continues to decorate the TARDIS in 1930's horror/gothic style then Smile )

from memory the TV Movie started life as a straight reboot for the American Market, the doctor and master would be half brothers, the tardis would contain the spirit of the Doctors dead grandfather, and he would go looking for his lost timelord explorer father who had married a victorian princess on Earth...or some nonsense along those lines

That's actually not far of of the premise of "Kung Fu" - David Carradine's character is a Shao Lin priest and master of mysteries, seeking his half brother, an outlaw gunfighter, in the Old West and finding unexpected pieces of his story of the father he never knew.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if they were consciously using it as a successful model, Like Gene Roddenberry originally envisioned Star Trek as Horatio Hornblower meets "Wagon Train" in the stars. I guess that's how you sometime have to pitch a show concept to get it funded...Rolling Eyes


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Re: Doctor Who [12]

Post by malickfan on Sat Oct 31, 2015 1:17 pm

David H wrote:Thanks Malick. It's interesting to know that there's so much more to the eighth Doctor than I'd imagined, also that they continued the Frankenstein theme (I presume McGann's Doctor continues to decorate the TARDIS in 1930's horror/gothic style then Smile  )

Although McGann has about a hour of screentime, 8 is certainly one of the most prolific doctors, because the TV series was offscreen for 9 years he was still counted as the 'current' doctor, so has tonnes of stories in books audios etc:

http://www.eyespider.freeserve.co.uk/drwho/pm/list.html

http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Theory:Timeline_-_Eighth_Doctor

(Not sure if these are complete/accurate lists-some of the books/audios contradict each other, and there isn't really an offical 'canon' for doctor who anwway)

They certainly keep the gothic theme- in the books, a colony of bats move into his tardis, (though his Tardis later 'regenerates' in
Spoiler:
Mary's Story (which in a weird timey wimey way features a very young 8th Doctor from soon after the TV Movie, and a battered, angry and much older 8th Doctor from the Timewar
) forced to take place in a bartering match for his own future corpse and a large proportion of his travels take place in 17-19th Century Europe, in the audios he's exiled to a parallel universe, caught in an endless timeloop inside a house that wants to kill him, stranded on a planet of talking jellyfish for 600 years, and six
Spoiler:
of his companions are killed
the general attitude the writers had seemed to have been 'Well he didn't have a TV series, so let's put him through as much nasty crap as we possibly can to make up for it' Laughing

It wouldn't surprise me at all if they were consciously using it as a successful model, Like Gene Roddenberry originally envisioned Star Trek as Horatio Hornblower meets "Wagon Train" in the stars. I guess that's how you sometime have to pitch a show concept to get it funded

Apparently Spielberg was involved with the early drafts, but rejected them for being too similar to Indiana Jones...the idea of Doctor Who remiagind as a wisecracking all american hero isn't one that sits too well with me personally  Evil or Very Mad ...(no offense intended).

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Re: Doctor Who [12]

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sat Oct 31, 2015 9:19 pm

Shocked I enjoyed that if for no other reason than it was blooming different. And the most overtly political story I've seen probably since 7 and the Happiness Patrol!

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Re: Doctor Who [12]

Post by malickfan on Sat Oct 31, 2015 9:30 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Shocked I enjoyed that if for no other reason than it was blooming different. And the most overtly political story I've seen probably since 7 and the Happiness Patrol!

I really enjoyed that episode (felt like a RTD era ep with the politics and earth invasion) but they weren't exactly subtle with the metaphors...and those UNIT soldiers were pretty thick for highly trained special forces personnel! Rolling Eyes

Depending on how the finale ends up...I think this could push Series 4 out as my favourite series of New Who Nod

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Re: Doctor Who [12]

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sat Oct 31, 2015 9:47 pm

Had it been Torchwood the scene with soldiers would have ended differently I suspect- they'd have shot the lot and then discovered they really were hostages! You cant do that in Who- but you can kill them off-screen and reduce them to crackling steaming piles of hair and teeth. Nod

But my favourite comment I've read tonight on the episode comes from the 'What did the kids and not we think of the episode' thread on Gallifrey Base-

'My 11 year old just pretended to be a zygon duplicate as I put him to bed. Thats how dr who should be.'

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Re: Doctor Who [12]

Post by malickfan on Sat Oct 31, 2015 9:57 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Had it been Torchwood the scene with soldiers would have ended differently I suspect- they'd have shot the lot and then discovered they really were hostages! You cant do that in Who- but you can kill them off-screen and reduce them to crackling steaming piles of hair and teeth. Nod


That is true, but you wouldn't have half a dozen soldiers disobey a direct order from their officer and march into an explored Church unarmed, are we supposed to believe Kate Stewart is UNITs entire American Staff?, and I'm pretty sure that if I was surrounded by Zygons in a tunnel I'd certainly consider firing my machine gun at them! Rolling Eyes

This was written by the guy who wrote Kill the Moon, it was certainly a much better episode...but nearly as hamfisted with the symbolism...

Still not sure where this series arc is leading...

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Re: Doctor Who [12]

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sat Oct 31, 2015 10:07 pm

his was written by the guy who wrote Kill the Moon, it was certainly a much better episode...but nearly as hamfisted with the symbolism...- Malick

Spoiler:
I honestly cant make my mind up iof it was ham-fisted or just direct and not messing about.
The ISIS style video where the uprising zygons kill the other older zygons for basically conforming with wider society making them an enemy of all 'true zygons' was pretty on the nose- but it was still a point worth making in the context I think.
Kids who watched this got it explained in a scifi way directly enough that when they are older they will recognise it and maybe help inform them.
I think probably on balance he hit a decent ration between having to explain it and put it foremost and keeping it working as part of the broader scifi. Its tricky to do this in Who because of the breadth of the audience age range.

But its clear he favours as a writer social and political commentary.
Although I read it was Moffat idea and he pitched it to Harness. A matter of knowing your writing teams preferences.
More hybrids again too, mmmm.

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Re: Doctor Who [12]

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sat Oct 31, 2015 10:42 pm

those UNIT soldiers were pretty thick for highly trained special forces personnel!Malick

Noone said they were highly trained- they are UNIT soldiers. I suspect there is motto is 'largely in inept since 1976, or maybe 86'

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Re: Doctor Who [12]

Post by Mrs Figg on Sat Oct 31, 2015 10:43 pm

Spoiler:
I thought it was bad. It was in very bad taste, the airplane being targeted by a ground missile was horrible considering what has recently happened in the Ukraine, that was fucking disgusting. There was an abysmal ageist one liner. The whole thing dragged and clunked along without any reason or logic. it was really really bad stuff. one of the worst episodes ever.

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Re: Doctor Who [12]

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sat Oct 31, 2015 10:48 pm

Spoiler:
It was in very bad taste
- Figg
Spoiler:

Or very brave. To be so direct. And its not like they were playing those scenes for laughs.

'There was an abysmal ageist one liner.'

Rolling Eyes  Well I suppose you have to find something given there is no way you could use your usual Moffat is sexist angle in yet another episode this series dominated by female characters.

' without any reason or logic.'

I don't get that- the story seemed to make sense to me.  Shrugging

Damn you Figg- I should be in bed I have to get up at 6am! Mad

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Re: Doctor Who [12]

Post by Mrs Figg on Sat Oct 31, 2015 11:20 pm

Spoiler:
the worst thing were the barking mad references to IS. it was constant heavy handed pseudo political nonsense. references to benefits, radicalisation and bombing. black and white flags? srsy it was BAD. Rolling Eyes

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Re: Doctor Who [12]

Post by azriel on Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:11 pm

I just watched Dr Who on BBC IPlayer & I have to say, I didnt really enjoy this one. It feels far too political, too involved in Earths politics, it should have kept to fantasy & neutrality but it didnt. As much as I really like Capaldi this Dr Who is veering away from the stories I liked.

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Re: Doctor Who [12]

Post by Mrs Figg on Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:55 pm

I agree. This whole season we have only had one episode on a different planet. they have all been on Earth, and now they are going in for Earth politics, whats going on? No plus this episode felt like a mash-up of many pieces of previous episodes all bunged in together. Its like they had a check list. awful.

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Re: Doctor Who [12]

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sun Nov 01, 2015 4:22 pm

It feels far too political, too involved in Earths politics, it should have kept to fantasy & neutrality but it didnt.- Azriel

Spoiler:
I disagree here- Who has a long history of broad strokes allegory on the political- sometimes historical- like Daleks/Nazi's/Davros Bunker/Hitler's bunker/Nazi style salutes/SS style uniforms- Genesis of the Daleks (also contains a general warning about nuclear and chemical weapons). You can go all the way back to the 1st Doctor Dalek Invasion of Earth where you will find rows of Daleks giving Nazi salutes- its not subtle either but its Who broad strokes style.
The Happiness Patrol from 7th Doctor era is a thinly veiled attack on the Thatcherism of the day and there are plenty others with social or political meaning. The showrunner then was once asked if Who was aiming to be political, to which he replied, "No, we are aiming to take down the government." (Imagine Moffat said that- the Daily Mail would have a field day!)

More so Zygons are particularly suited to such a story. They are a classic B-movie shapeshifters- they can trace a direct line to Invasion of the Body Snatchers. They are perfect for reflecting social issues which revolve around paranoia, distrust of the other- as seen in The Thing, Battlestar Galatica, Deep Space Nine and countless other examples in literature.

But in this case its actually a bit cleverer I feel than many of those.
By reflecting current situations it gives both sides.
The younger generation of Zygons have a point- why should they be forced to live out their lives in a disguised form? And the growing parnaoia that has been building among the younger Zygon immigrants- what would happen if humans found out- is a nice mirror of how immigrants feel in a country where daily the news and press and those round them are hostile to immigrants?
The older generation, seeing it as issue among their own say they will take care of it.
The flash point is New Mexico- a Zygon child who has not yet learned how to keep their imprint changes in front of someone- they are shot dead by the human populace of the town- the younger generation rise up in revenge and form essentially a terrorist cell of Zygons who believe that either they should be 'out' and free to live to their lives, or they will 'out' every conforming Zygon (the vast majority living peacefully) and kill them, and all of UNIT who were the other side of the peace treaty and take the planet for themselves. 'Truth or Consequences'

Having watched it twice now I feel the stroy is in fact a good mix of the scifi Zygon story and using that story as the excuse to reflect back social issues of our time.
Who is entitled to do this from time to time and has done since the begin.


'This whole season we have only had one episode on a different planet.'

We've only had three stories.
The first episode was half set in the present day earth, partly  in 12th century Essex, partly in on several planets whilst Sarf went looking for the Doctor, and the entire second episode was on Skaro.
The third episode was again earth, but in the future and then in the 1980's.
Then we had Viking Norway and 17th Century England.
This one is the only contemporary earth story of the series so far.
I don't remember you complaining when RTD used to set almost whole series around the Powell Housing Estate in London, always contemporary times too.
Besides the style, art direction, and general direction of episodes have been so marked from each other that there is no sense of being it the same place all the time or seeing the same stuff over and over.

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Re: Doctor Who [12]

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sun Nov 01, 2015 4:44 pm

Press round up-

Spoiler:
Guardian- Did somebody say topical contemporary reference? It’s always been the job of sci-fi to hold a mirror up to society, but returning writer Peter Harness goes considerably further than Doctor Who has in recent years. Lines like “They’ll think you’re gonna pinch their benefits,” raise a laugh, but repeated use of the word “radicalisation” in the script is a bravely emotive move...It’s also nice to have Unit back, front and centre, as semi-regulars, their ranks bolstered year-on-year, and the Doctor also now more comfortable in his proxy role of President of Earth. And surely it’s no accident that the United Nations offshoot is now a predominantly female organisation...her (Osgood) grief for her “sister” provided one of the most profound emotional beats we’ve seen all year.'

Den of Geek- 'Underpinning all of this, writer Peter Harness – returning after last year’s Kill The Moon – thankfully proves an adept juggler of balls.

There’s no slow build-up here, as The Zygon Invasion gets cracking quickly and only occasionally pauses for breath. Every now and then there’s a sense of having to hang on and go with it, but that’s a small price for the ambition and scale of the episode. There’s a very real sense that this is a global story...With UNIT troops surrounding a church, out come the innocent-looking citizens of the town. Are they Zygons or not? That’s the dramatic conundrum you get with shapeshifting aliens, and Harness plays it beautifully. It’s cold, hard science fiction, with a deadly edge, and it stuck in my head long after the credits rolled. Rarely have the Zygons been as sinister to watch. Huge credit there too to debut Who director Daniel Nettheim, who balances the shifting styles of the episode with confidence...It’s an entertaining, enjoyable, spooky and occasionally bumpy treat though, that I liked a lot. One with plenty to say politically too, bubbling not far under the surface. Count me amongst those eagerly awaiting part two.'

IGN- 'The Doctor is confronted with an interesting problem in this episode, and one that could be seen to reflect real world struggles on a couple of different levels...This parallels the Syrian refugee situation, which is something that the UK is dealing with right now.

There’s more to it than that though, with the concept of the “panic” and “paranoia” the Zygons are feeling in their lives as they worry over what would happen if the humans they live among found out who and what they really are. Surely this is a reflection on what life must be like for illegal immigrants, or anyone who fears being judged as different from those around them whether it’s by race, religion, creed or what have you. You don’t have to be a suction-cup covered monster to feel that way.....Surely their methods are abhorrent -- disintegrating humans and whatnot -- but they do deserve to live as true Zygons, right? And is this the only way they can make themselves heard? Through terror? Even Osgood’s video-under-duress message drives home the terror angle that Doctor Who is taking here...As on the nose as this all is, it’s still intriguing....Splitting up the main participants, in particular the Doctor and Clara, hurts the action as the stuff with Kate and the cop in Truth or Consequences, New Mexico, drags (of course the cop was going to turn out to be a Zygon!), as does the Clara/Jac subplot (until the final reveal, anyway)...an episode that poses some thought-provoking questions but does so in a rather ponderous fashion.'

IMdB- 8.5

Metro- UNIT’s militaristic nature is more to the fore here than in previous stories, underlining how they and the Doctor’s ‘peace first’ philosophy often make uncomfortable bedfellows. Both Kate and Colonel Walsh are happy to drop bombs first and ask questions later, giving the Doctor more concern over their actions than the Zygons’.
And the Zygons themselves aren’t wholly unsympathetic. Their plea to have a home in which they can live as themselves rather than forever disguised in human form lends them a depth which in some ways makes them seem more reasonable than their human counterparts. Probably deliberately, there’s a whisper of realpolitik in this around the degree to which immigrants from other cultures should be expected to blend in and adopt the social norms of their new home. For this fan, who grew up in the eras of the Third and Fourth Doctors, The Zygon Invasion felt a lot like a UNIT-based story from those times – and that’s no bad thing.

Radio Times- The basic concept of this two-parter is Steven Moffat’s and he’s gifted it to Peter Harness, one of Doctor Who’s new great finds. Peter wrote last year’s Kill the Moon, which earned a mixed response and was greatly enjoyed by me. He adapted the bizarre Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell for BBC1 earlier this year; but perhaps what’s more relevant to this task is that he’s the showrunner of Wallander (the British version starring Kenneth Branagh).
A key preoccupation of Henning Mankell’s Wallander detective novels (set in Sweden) was to show us the way we live now, how ethnic minorities try to rub along with a majority population; he would never demonise migrants or outsiders but humanise them as victims of circumstance, exploited by indigenous criminals. Peter Harness is steeped in all this and it informs his latest Doctor Who.
With its allusions to Isis and direct mentions of radicalisation, terrorist training camps and splinter groups, The Zygon Invasion is the closest Doctor Who has ever dared come to commenting on the woes of the world. It’s brave and may look like a toned-down Spooks or even Homeland, but perhaps its deepest roots lie in Mankell’s Baltic of the 1990s.
Again women are to the fore. Anyone criticising Moffat’s era for misogyny needs an eye test quite frankly. Apart from the Doctor, nearly all the key parts here are female (as they have been throughout this series).
The most interesting character is Zygood – sorry, Osgood. Ingrid Oliver is a sweetheart in the part of the Unit boffin who may or may not be a Zygon...The Zygon Invasion isn’t quite the tense global thriller it’s been touted as. It pootles along with a lot of engaging set-up and a few shudders and moments of suspense...All the heroes are in various states of peril, perhaps dead. And rather fabulously Clara/Zygon fires a missile at the presidential plane with the Doctor aboard. Harness has generated an exciting multiple cliffhanger.'

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Gingerlocks and the Three McTyrants

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Re: Doctor Who [12]

Post by azriel on Sun Nov 01, 2015 6:00 pm

To be truthful I dont want to be reminded of how fooked up the Earth is, I want escapism & I dont really feel at this moment that Im getting that with Dr Who ? In fact Im feeling depressed ? Im still waiting to be scared shitless ? Smile

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Re: Doctor Who [12]

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sun Nov 01, 2015 6:06 pm

Oh don't worry the scares are yet to come with Gatiss story.

I certainly haven't been depressed by this series, not all, its shaping up to my favourite of Nuwho.  Nod

But when Moffat did it in the form of a fairy tale, of the fantastical in the Pond era people complained and wanted it more 'serious' we get more serious- this series for all its japes us covered some deep central themes in each story- and people complain about that instead.

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Re: Doctor Who [12]

Post by azriel on Sun Nov 01, 2015 6:17 pm

OOOh I knoooooooow ! You cant please everyone, its tricky dicky, but, I do like a good fart worthy scare ! Nod

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