Tolkien and evolution?

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Re: Tolkien and evolution?

Post by Tinuviel on Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:16 pm

Pigs are dangerous creatures! Deceivingly smart! George Orwell knew it! Damn Napoleon and his pig minions! Mad

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Re: Tolkien and evolution?

Post by Ally on Sun Oct 23, 2011 1:05 pm

It wouldn't have been like this under snowball... Sad Does Orwell remind anyone one else of Minimus? Let the truth be told... Smile

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Re: Tolkien and evolution?

Post by Orwell on Sun Oct 23, 2011 3:39 pm

Who the f*^k is Minimus?

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Re: Tolkien and evolution?

Post by Ally on Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:48 pm

Nevermind if you truly don't understand... Rolling Eyes

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Re: Tolkien and evolution?

Post by Orwell on Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:33 am

Orwell wrote:Who the f*^k is Minimus?

... yeah.. but who? Suspect

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Re: Tolkien and evolution?

Post by Amarië on Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:09 am

Ask my daughter and she will tell you that this is Minni Mus:

But please ask a bit more nicely that that, she is only 4. Wink

You made me think a bit there, Ally. I haven't actually read the story, but I do know that some are more equal than others. I wonder if we read a bit of it in an English class at some point..

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Re: Tolkien and evolution?

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:58 am

This is quite a good version of Animal Farm. Worth tracking down.


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Re: Tolkien and evolution?

Post by chris63 on Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:57 am

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Re: Tolkien and evolution?

Post by Eldorion on Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:37 am

Shire from Lord of the Rings an ideal economic model

That's an interesting piece, but it strikes me as being either optimistic to the point of naivete or else unmindful of some of the details of Tolkien's world. The Shire, as a society, is predicated on the notion that there is practically no crime and all national defense needs are taken care of by a secretive yet benevolent outside force that never needs or expects any sort of payment. That is the only way an anarchic/libertarian society like the Shire could function: if the most fundamental reasons we need government and organization are removed. Trying to use it as a model for the real world seems rather odd to me given those significant differences.
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Re: Tolkien and evolution?

Post by Orwell on Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:13 am

Eldorion wrote:
Shire from Lord of the Rings an ideal economic model

That's an interesting piece, but it strikes me as being either optimistic to the point of naivete or else unmindful of some of the details of Tolkien's world. The Shire, as a society, is predicated on the notion that there is practically no crime and all national defense needs are taken care of by a secretive yet benevolent outside force that never needs or expects any sort of payment. That is the only way an anarchic/libertarian society like the Shire could function: if the most fundamental reasons we need government and organization are removed. Trying to use it as a model for the real world seems rather odd to me given those significant differences.

What about the Shiriff's then?

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Re: Tolkien and evolution?

Post by Eldorion on Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:19 am

Orwell wrote:What about the Shiriff's then?

You mean all 12 of them, for a country larger than Denmark? Very Happy Shirriffs in the Shire were also said to be "more concerned with the strayings of beasts than of people" and appear to have almost entire informal (prior to Lotho trying to take over, of course). This is in keeping with the idealized agrarian/anarchic theme that runs throughout the Shire where there has never been a murder (cf. Frodo's comments during the Scouring), everyone was self-sufficient yet almost no one was greedy or acquisitive, and everyone obeyed the few laws there were because they agreed it was the right thing to do (cf. the Prologue). study

The closest thing to a police or military force that we would recognize was the Bounders, a group of variable size that apparently patrolled the borders of the Shire and made sure foreigners kept out of trouble, although the real protection of the Shire was carried out by the Dunedain Rangers. But based on what we know of the Shire they were likely mostly informal. The Shire is an intensely idealistic setting in many ways, including its view of human Hobbit nature. It's hardly a model for a functional society in the real world, though of course it would be nice if a place like that existed. Smile
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Re: Tolkien and evolution?

Post by Orwell on Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:58 am

Eldorion wrote:It's hardly a model for a functional society in the real world, though of course it would be nice if a place like that existed. Smile

Isn't Forumshire such a place? cheers And we've only got Mirabella!? Very Happy

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Re: Tolkien and evolution?

Post by Eldorion on Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:03 am

That is true, though I somehow don't think that online forums were what the original blogger had in mind. Razz But you are correct, and I must say that is one of my favorite things that we have in common with the original Shire. Very Happy
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Re: Tolkien and evolution?

Post by chris63 on Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:10 am

Do the sheriff's turn a blind eye to the smoking of weed i wonder. No community service for the Hobbits i bet ?
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Re: Tolkien and evolution?

Post by Orwell on Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:11 am

Maybe we should think of Forumshire as a Shire for the 21st Century, keeping the flame alive. Very Happy

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Re: Tolkien and evolution?

Post by Mirabella on Sat Jan 28, 2012 6:17 am

Flame alive? Mine will never fade! I love you
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Re: Tolkien and evolution?

Post by Pretty Tyrant on Sat Jan 28, 2012 11:07 pm

We only need one Sherriff here and thats my Mirabella. Nod

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Re: Tolkien and evolution?

Post by Mirabella on Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:04 am

Ooh, Pretty... that was sooo sweet of you... I love you Sad I love you

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Re: Tolkien and evolution?

Post by halfwise on Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:31 pm

Eldorion wrote:The essay that jumped out at me from the list was "She and Tolkien, Revisited". I've never read any H. Rider Haggard, but a part of me as been curious to read She ever since a friend did and told me about all the references to it Tolkien slipped into LOTR. Smile

Browsing from afar. Anyway, "She" is probably the most direct influence on Tolkien that you'll find. A fascinating read: you'll find a sam-like servant, numinorean like tombs (Tolkien admitted to that influence directly), and the idea of framing a fictional story in the real world to help the readers accept it. Hard to find, but oh, so worth it!
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Re: Tolkien and evolution?

Post by David H on Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:11 am

"She" is well worth reading. "King Solomon's Mines" too. I guarantee you'll never read Tolkien, Edgar Rice Burroughs' "Tarzan" series, or watch "Raider's of the Lost Ark" quite the same again. They all borrow very heavily from H. Rider Haggard. There's a lot of good Victorian racism/sexism to deal with, but unlike Burroughs and others, Haggard had actually lived in colonial Africa and the authenticity shows.
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Re: Tolkien and evolution?

Post by Eldorion on Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:05 am

Project Gutenberg has an e-copy of She so I might give it a try if I have some time. I'd love to go "back to the source" myself, so to speak. study
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Re: Tolkien and evolution?

Post by Orwell on Wed Jan 01, 2014 10:08 pm

I don't mind a bit of sauce myself, Eldo.  Very Happy 

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Re: Tolkien and evolution?

Post by halfwise on Wed Jan 01, 2014 10:35 pm

{{{ I love the way Orwell goes through and excavates old threads. }}}

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Re: Tolkien and evolution?

Post by Orwell on Wed Jan 01, 2014 11:50 pm

{{{Hey! It just takes me awhile to catch up some times.  Very Happy }}}

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