Are Vegans the new Christians?

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Are Vegans the new Christians?

Post by Orwell on Sat Jul 02, 2016 2:55 am

I got into a bit of a discussion (or insult fest?) with some Vegans on Facebook and one even asked me (quite stridently and passionately) if I would like being killed, chopped up into bits and eaten. I confess, I agree I would'nt like knowing I was going to be killed, though once I got over being cruelly killed, I guess all questions of what was done with my body is neither here or there to me; though as I think more about it, here as I write, I'm thinking, so long as I wasn't wasted and I saved a starving person's life, then my death would not have been in vain. I'm thinking of the glass being half full here.

Anyway, Vegans keep putting stuff on my Facebook page telling me I'm a bad person - cruel, even - for eating animals, though not vegetables and cranberries, which life forms are there to be grown, cut down and eaten (I presume).

I tend to get my back up when I'm told to be a herbivore when I want to be an omnivore like my grand dad and a lot, if not all, my other ancestors going back about ten thousand years, roughly.

Vegans are very strident in telling me what I should do, so, getting to the point of this thread at last: are Vegans the new Christians? You know, minding other people's business with their strong opinions, whether Jehovah or Gaia-driven?

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Re: Are Vegans the new Christians?

Post by Eldorion on Sat Jul 02, 2016 4:57 am

My sister was vegan for a while, and still mostly follows that diet, and my mom started cooking vegan as a result. Neither of them are at all aggressive or judgmental about it, though you'll always find evangelists in any large group.

I personally don't think that the ethical argument for veganism is consistent with responsible stewardship of the environment, which sometimes involves filling the apex predator role (e.g., culling deer population so they don't eat all the vegetation and begin to starve), stemming the tide of invasive species, and protecting endangered ones. You can't really do that if you think all animal lives are of equal moral worth to each other (including human lives as part of the category of "all animals"). The philosophy of animal rights tends to operate on the level of the individual rather than putting value on the health of the overall ecosystem or the perpetuation of any given species because it rejects species-based privileging of some animals over others.

Of course you can't draw a direct line from this argument to "killing animals for the purpose of eating them is okay", but I tend to see that as legitimate. Needless cruelty (including but not limited to certain factory farming practices) or wanton killing for no reason I'm opposed to. I'm not totally sure where I stand on sport hunting, though if it's of an endangered species it's easier for me to say I think it's wrong.

EDIT: I guess I'm also receptive to the argument that some animals (great apes, maybe elephants and dolphins?) should be accorded different status as a result of higher levels of cognitive ability but I haven't really thought about this enough to have a firm opinion.
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Re: Are Vegans the new Christians?

Post by azriel on Sat Jul 02, 2016 9:39 am

Im the only veggie in the family Smile

All my lot are hungry meat eaters & I never lecture them about how I feel. I DO lecture them over animal cruelty ! The vile & evil Dog festival, Yulin,China. Its too sickening for words ! You'll have to Google it Sad My lot respect my not eating meat, & I try to find products that are not tested on animals, tho thats not always as easy as youde think. Same with fabrics & household things. Even soap has animal in it. Pretty much everything does Sad

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Re: Are Vegans the new Christians?

Post by Orwell on Sat Jul 02, 2016 12:22 pm

Unlike I am normally, I have probably been a little cheeky and provocative putting up this thread in the fashion I have, but I have to say, I agree with both of you. Eldo and your perceptions on ecology and meat production, and, you, Azzi, who I never knew was a vegetable, and clearly I approve of your non-evangelist stance - on  vegetables... Um... I guess... Were you saying your family aren't vegetables, but you are??? (Maybe I was skimming your post when I should have been reading it?) No matter, you are welcome here, I'll add you to the list of elves, dwarves and hobbits residing here... Under "V" - for "Vegetable".

Anyhow...Since I made this thread, I have had a slightly unpleasant interaction on Facebook with a Vegan when I posted a well thought out (and not particularly provocative, I thought) Facebook post on - to be succinct - ecology, meat production, nature, Omnivores and Herbivores (Vegans).

Subsequent (and said) Facebook interaction:

Alli (a Vegan): Orwell McOo.* Humans do not have the right to own any other living being. You are a piece of shit. Kill yourself."

To which I replied in all reasonableness.

"Alli, let me guess, you are both an intellectual and a pacifist; and possibly a troll.... Bless your little cotton socks, sweetums."

I only hope my olive branch was received in the spirit I sent it, though my bunions are throbbing and I fear the worse Very Happy

Incidentally, I checked Alli's Facebook page and discovered The following:

1. Alli has no photo up , which suggests he either doesn't actually have a face (which I assume Facebook would have  some kind of rule about), or that he talks tough but is a bit faceless.

2. He certainly is a rabid Vegan envangelist (though not necessarily a Chrstian - though he may be one of your Right Wing, "I hate you, Orwell McOdo, and pray for your slow incineration in Hell" style of Old Testamental Christian hater).

3. He lives in "Fucking, Austria." (Which, frankly, would not be the style of town name that the Ozhobbitan Government would ever accept Downunder and just goes to show that the Austrian Government is slightly low-brow, at least, in my opinion. In no way do I mean to diss the general Austrian populace).

Alli certainly seems an interesting case. Some Vegans are quite potent haters, it seems.

Though it is encouraging to know that there is also at least one potent Vegan lover around, Azzi - possibly a lover in more ways than one. (I am a keen reader of Wholesome Tales, you see. cheers )






* Orwell McOdo may not be the name I use on Facebook.

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Re: Are Vegans the new Christians?

Post by azriel on Sat Jul 02, 2016 1:07 pm

I know about You & Wholesome Tale Olly Smile I feel proud to hold the banner of Forumshires one & only posting vegetable Smile  Dear old FB can be an unding source of fun, jabs, bitching & pain Smile Praps Alli is, as you say, rabid ? Smile In which case my condolences to his/her family & heres a gun Smile

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Re: Are Vegans the new Christians?

Post by Ringdrotten on Sat Jul 02, 2016 3:22 pm

It feels appropriate to recommend the book "Holy Cow" by David Duchovny here - a book about the cow Elsie, who wants to escape from her farm to India where she will be treated as a godess (and not eaten or made into baseball gloves), and her friends, Jerry the pig (who takes the name Shalom and becomes a jew so he won't be eaten), and Tom Turkey who starves himself in order to not be eaten for Thanksgiving Laughing A funny read, and quite unique Smile

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Re: Are Vegans the new Christians?

Post by Mrs Figg on Sat Jul 02, 2016 5:49 pm

never mind Vegans the Fruitarians are the ones to avoid. They give me the pip. Mad Mind you they are both so full of hot air. literally.

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Re: Are Vegans the new Christians?

Post by Amarië on Sat Jul 02, 2016 6:17 pm

This discussion reminded me of someting. Smile So I stole um... borrowed these from different web pages, hope they show up. (Pearls for swine, by Stephan Pastis)












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Re: Are Vegans the new Christians?

Post by Mrs Figg on Sat Jul 02, 2016 6:46 pm

Fruitarians are nuts.

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Re: Are Vegans the new Christians?

Post by Bluebottle on Sat Jul 02, 2016 6:52 pm

Laughing

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Re: Are Vegans the new Christians?

Post by Bluebottle on Sat Jul 02, 2016 6:53 pm

I met this guy from Blitz (a left wing movement/group that has occupied an appartmet block in Oslo city center for a long time) who said he was a freegan. Which basically means he'll only eat meat he's either given, or has stolen. Razz

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Re: Are Vegans the new Christians?

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sat Jul 02, 2016 8:23 pm

{{{I dont approve of vegetables Mad Or the cruelty to vegetables that vegetarians put them through- at least with animals you kill them and eat them- a lot of plants they are just maimed and left to keep trying to live after harvest- the rest get sliced through and crushed together into bales. Its barbaric!
And don't get me started on taking the fruit from the parent as soon as its old enough to be termed 'ripe' but before its had a chance to breed- at least with salmon there are laws in place to protect the young until they have spawned at least once- no such luck if your a strawberry plant though, you are going to have your young striped right away from you and often eaten right there and then in front of you- mind-boggling cruelty! Evil or Very Mad
And then there is the living conditions- forced to grow for human convenience in ordered closely packed rows completely unnaturally, thousands crammed into every field. Mad  And worst of all the chemical and genetic experiments carried out on them without so much as a by or leave. Mad

Think of the veggies!!!! Stop the cruelty to plants!! }}}}

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Re: Are Vegans the new Christians?

Post by Forest Shepherd on Sat Jul 02, 2016 8:38 pm

Eldorion wrote: you'll always find evangelists in any large group.

Quoted for truth!

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Re: Are Vegans the new Christians?

Post by Mrs Figg on Sun Jul 03, 2016 12:12 am

Odd Shaped Veggie Liberation Front. Metal

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Re: Are Vegans the new Christians?

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sun Jul 03, 2016 12:21 am

Plants are people too! Or at least sometimes people shaped (in the case of Daves plants particular bits of people shaped Embarassed ) }}}




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Re: Are Vegans the new Christians?

Post by Orwell on Sun Jul 03, 2016 8:31 am

All of your posts above, is why, though I sometimes go on adventures in that other Alternate Universe, I always come back here! I love you, Forumshirans, you raving pack of nutty and sarcastic (but eminently wise) maniacs!


Kissing

Oh btw, one of our long lost Fascists got voted back into our Senate! My local Rascist Bigotted Fascist Hater Group, called, "Voices for Bendigo," posted the good news on MY Facebook. 

That may have been a mistake. Very Happy


I said: 

Rise of the Fascists... again... Don't tell me, voted in by uneducated White men... again...

Mavis Beckett (I'm presuming a mild mannered, tea drinking, retiring, elderly, smarmy and virulent Christian hater' and probably the member of "Voices for Bendigo" who posted the offending post on MY Facebook page) replied:

you are the uneducated

((((Sharp observation, agreed; but notice the lack of a capital at the start of her post)))

, the use of the word white alerts me to who and what you are 

(((Yes, correct use of a comma, but NO full stop!)))

I immediately considered the possibility she was an uneducated White wife of a White man. I also wondered what she meant. She said she knew 'Who I am'... ? ... Well, that's obvious I thought, my name was there, right there near my photo. A perfectly White kind of name, I thought, patently White....

And the photo of me? Well, wasn't it clearly the photo of a (very handsome) White man, not perfectly White, even if perfectly handsome, what with my splendid permanent Ozhobbistani tan, but White nonetheless for any Face Booker (with eyes) to see. 

Hah! I thought, she thinks I'm French. White and French, even if slightly tanned! ... .... 

She said she knew, "What you are"..? ... That was harder, until I realized, of course, she thought I was a White man... But that was obvious... Wasn't it... We'd already established that! Even a White Supremacist White Wife of a White Man could see that... No matter how uneducated....???? ...

... I thought a bit longer, and then thought, with a blinding flash, NOOOO!!! She thinks I'm an olive skinned Arab, and a Muslim, and a member of a sleeper sect of ISIS! 

It was sooo obvious when the penny dropped. Little old White women hater types - in my experience - always think you're a Muslim Terrorist Organiser, or a Sympathiser at least. (Okay, I'm making that up - but I bet you I'm not far off the mark!)

I replied (and I do admit, it was with a slight surge of sarcasm trickling through my blood, having been cruelly roused and all, and possibly not exhibiting quite the unprovacative sensibilities I usually exhibit):

Yep,  a middle class White Australian, second generation on my mother's side, third generation on my father's side, of true British stock, with some hint that I may have had at least one White French forbear, but beyond the reach of genealogists at this stage; but not one of your minority 'Voices'. 

I am an a Australian, but from relatively recent immigrant stock. Love my footy, love a barbecue, love a beer, love my wife, love my children, love my lawn mower, and like my father, who fought in Borneo as a seventeen year old, a believer in "live and let live" (within reason) and "a fair go for all" (within reason); and let Christians, Muslims, Hindus and Buddhists, no matter of what Racial stock, pray in freedom, and only stand up to be heard when the extremist hater stands up and preaches his or her bigoted hate in their predictable strident "Voices."

I was quite pleased with my restraint, actually.

As you see, I'm willing to fight for what I believe, whether it's with Austrians or Bendigonians. Of course, I expect my front porch to be fire bombed at any time, which, of course, won't be anywhere near as funny as this post has been. 

Yep, I'm very proud - even if a little nervous now - of this post! Very Happy:pale:

Leaving the Police Force has given me great freedom I've decided. I no longer have to tolerate these scum. Though, I'm not allowed to carry a gun to protect myself now either, which might turn out to be a downside...

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Re: Are Vegans the new Christians?

Post by Orwell on Sun Jul 03, 2016 9:20 am

Oh no! That rhubarb I had with custard last night!!!! It was an Ent, wasn't it! Tell me it wasn't an Ent, Petty, please tell me rhubarbs aren't Ents....

And, that Ent in the second photo.... Just wondering, Entwife or Entmaid?? Just wondering... Nothing more...
Pettytyrant101 wrote:Plants are people too! Or at least sometimes people shaped (in the case of Daves plants particular bits of people shaped Embarassed ) }}}




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Re: Are Vegans the new Christians?

Post by Bluebottle on Sun Jul 03, 2016 10:16 am

Funny how these nationalistic "*english* for the *english*" (*insert relevant place of residence*) types exist all over the world, eh..

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Re: Are Vegans the new Christians?

Post by Orwell on Sun Jul 03, 2016 10:24 am

Nationalists, I guess, can be all sorts of colours depending on the country, but in Australia, it's White European - generally British-Australian - all the way. Very Happy

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Re: Are Vegans the new Christians?

Post by Orwell on Sun Jul 03, 2016 11:09 am

Goodness me. I think I'll have to retreat from the Vegans on Facebook. There is only one thing they will apparently listen to: "You Vegans are like veritable saints. Why didn't' I ever see the light! Sorry for being such a murderer all my life!"

Azzi, how do you manage being Vegan without hating the universe? You're a rose among thorns! Or, maybe, you are indeed a vegetable, a sweet and tasty vegetable that even a meat eater would like to sample? Very Happy

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Re: Are Vegans the new Christians?

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sun Jul 03, 2016 11:57 am

Oh no! That rhubarb I had with custard last night!!!! It was an Ent, wasn't it! Tell me it wasn't an Ent, Petty, please tell me rhubarbs aren't Ents....- Orwell

{{Entlings!! Evil or Very Mad And not enough you eat them alive, you boil them in hot custard too!! Evil or Very Mad You monster!! Evil or Very Mad }}}

Just wondering, Entwife or Entmaid?? Just wondering... Nothing more...- Orwell

{{I'm dangerously hazarding at Entmaid on the basis no wife ever has hips that narrow Nod }}}

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Re: Are Vegans the new Christians?

Post by Orwell on Sun Jul 03, 2016 12:30 pm

You raise some interesting points, Petty... Think I'll just think on it... Behind this couch....


Sofa

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Re: Are Vegans the new Christians?

Post by azriel on Sun Jul 03, 2016 1:55 pm

Smile Your rant was enjoyably funny Orwell Smile Nothing brings people down than words of more than 2 syllables, 2 consonants, a verb, & a noun or 2 Smile Of course in some cases wax crayons & clean paper ( not loo roll Sad ) are the only means of verbal contact. Tho, I have found a seance works wonders, seems to work better when the victim ( Im mean of course, the person ) is actually alive ! Smile odd that ? I keep my cool by watching. I watch people reach hysteria, laugh & walk away when the ambulance arrives, for at this point the person has boiled themselves up to a dangerously high melting point. What laughs eh Smile

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Re: Are Vegans the new Christians?

Post by Orwell on Sun Jul 03, 2016 2:32 pm

And I thought Ol' Anon could baffle you at times! Shocked

I must say, Azzi, fighting with Fascists and Vegans palls very quickly. Fanatics, when you actually try to engage them in reasonable conversation, turn out to be scary. I don't scare that easily in the physical sense, but the depth of these people's ignorant stupidity is really scary. Thank goodness there are people here you can discuss things with, and make up with later. Very Happy 

(And thank goodness we have Amarie - a Christian with both an immortal soul and intelligence. I'm wondering now how rare they are? I used to think there were actually quite a lot of them, but now I'm not so sure!)

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Re: Are Vegans the new Christians?

Post by Mrs Figg on Sun Jul 03, 2016 2:34 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:

Just wondering, Entwife or Entmaid?? Just wondering... Nothing more...- Orwell

{{I'm dangerously hazarding at Entmaid on the basis no wife ever has hips that narrow  Nod  }}}

do you hear that distant rumble getting ever closer? no? well you will, and the femi-tsunami that overtakes you will be the direct result of the 'hips' comment. Suspect :drum:

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