US General Election 2016

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US General Election 2016

Post by halfwise on Sat Jan 28, 2017 6:20 pm

And yet in my case his policies are set to wipe out wide swaths of my employment options.  Thousands of EPA workers will be out looking for jobs outside the national government, and likely won't be moving back even if the winds change in 4 years.  So I've got plenty of reasons to dislike Trump. Twisted Evil

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Re: US General Election 2016

Post by David H on Sat Jan 28, 2017 8:58 pm

halfwise wrote: I was tickled to see the "Cranberry Coast Highway".

Yep, that would be me! Wave

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Re: US General Election 2016

Post by David H on Sat Jan 28, 2017 9:10 pm

halfwise wrote:And yet in my case his policies are set to wipe out wide swaths of my employment options.  Thousands of EPA workers will be out looking for jobs outside the national government.


I've been curious about that. As the economic impacts of climate change get clearer and clearer, how's the private sector of environmental science doing?

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Re: US General Election 2016

Post by Bluebottle on Sat Jan 28, 2017 10:12 pm

http://grrm.livejournal.com/518065.html?

That states it all quite simply, and rather clearly

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Re: US General Election 2016

Post by Bluebottle on Sun Jan 29, 2017 12:37 am

"Green card holders were handcuffed, their social media was reviewed, and they were asked their views on Trump"
http://usuncut.com/news/us-border-patrol-checking-peoples-facebook-political-views/

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Re: US General Election 2016

Post by Mrs Figg on Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:15 am

very. weird. shit.


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Re: US General Election 2016

Post by halfwise on Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:04 am

Just when I thought Trump couldn't possibly prove himself a bigger ass and idiot, he goes and does THIS.

Not a single country listed was among the hijackers of 9/11. All terrorists attacks since 9/11 have been from those born in, or with long time residence in America. Among the ethnicities they come from...you guessed it, not a single one is on the list. Trump just picked those countries that seemed most "muslim" to him. Bigotry, pure and simple, with no justification, even bad justification.

Now note that all the terrorism since 9/11 on US soil has been those who were radicalized by the thought that the US is anti-Islam. Not only did Trump declare a ban on the most muslim-seeming countries, he rubs everyone's nose in it by stopping even those who are enroute, who most probably have sold all their possessions in the countries they are leaving. Any thinking man would say "we will not process any NEW visas for the next 90 days, but for those we've already awarded, we're not going to suddenly make your life miserable just because you happened to get a visa BEFORE I officially declared [my personal dislike for muslims.]"

So what will this do to homegrown terrorism, the ONLY terrorism we've had on US soil for the last 15 years? Anybody with anything that could possibly be called a brain can see the obvious.

But with people caught in travel, their lives basically ruined, (including at least one man leaving Iraq because he worked for years to aid Americans in Iraq and so his life is in danger), what does Trump say? "It's working out very nicely."

What a jackass.

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Re: US General Election 2016

Post by bungobaggins on Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:50 am

Trump didn't compile the list of "countries of concern." That list was created in 2015/2016 for the Terrorist Travel Prevention Act.

https://sethfrantzman.com/2017/01/28/obamas-administration-made-the-muslim-ban-possible-and-the-media-wont-tell-you/
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Re: US General Election 2016

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sun Jan 29, 2017 12:18 pm

{{The list of 'countries of concern' might have come up under Obama but he didn't blanket ban folk as a result of it- thats the difference.
Interesting too who it can effect- was a Tory MP on Andrew Marr this morning, both his sons are at Harvard- but he and his wife have just been banned from traveling to America as his place of origin is Iraq.
He talks about how its the first time since he was a child he has felt the humiliation and pain of state level discrimination (the fact its being done by the 'Leader of the Free World' is its own irony).

ps not having Saudi on such a list if your going to make one is obscene- they are the source of the ISIS religious philosophy, they are fighting proxy wars in which they regularly bomb civilians and they have an appalling human rights record, and of course they were the source of the 9/11 terrorists.
But they have wealth, power, influence and the US owes them shit-loads of cash so all friends and smiles while the atrocities go on.
I would have had slightly more respect for Trump here if he had gone after the real sources of these ideologies that have been coddled by the West for way too long rather than just taking the easy, pathetic, soft, immoral route of targeting refugees- people in the most need and in the least position to defend themselves. Thats just moral cowardice.}}}

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Re: US General Election 2016

Post by David H on Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:58 pm

I've been trying to give Trump's team a little slack because I know they're all new, but I have to say this is one of the clumsiest bits of international policy I can remember. :facepalm: Who hired these clowns? {{{Oh wait... Embarassed Embarassed }}}

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Re: US General Election 2016

Post by Bluebottle on Sun Jan 29, 2017 3:01 pm


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Re: US General Election 2016

Post by halfwise on Sun Jan 29, 2017 3:28 pm

bungobaggins wrote:Trump didn't compile the list of "countries of concern." That list was created in 2015/2016 for the Terrorist Travel Prevention Act.

https://sethfrantzman.com/2017/01/28/obamas-administration-made-the-muslim-ban-possible-and-the-media-wont-tell-you/

In some ways that's a good catch, Bungo, except I know from personal experience that many Iranian students have come over since that list was compiled. The Obama "ban" bears looking into, but it doesn't seem to be what the article says it is.

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Re: US General Election 2016

Post by halfwise on Sun Jan 29, 2017 3:52 pm

It's interesting and a bit unclear to me as yet. The section Bungo referred to set up by the Obama administration is an add-on to this:

https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/158/text

With relevant text
(a) Establishment of program
The Secretary of Homeland Security and the Secretary of State are authorized to establish a program (hereinafter in this section referred to as the "program") under which the requirement of paragraph (7)(B)(i)(II) of section 1182(a) of this title may be waived by the Secretary of Homeland Security, in consultation with the Secretary of State and in accordance with this section, in the case of an alien who meets the following requirements:
---
i) the alien has not been present, at any time on or after March 1, 2011-
(I) in Iraq or Syria;
(II) in a country that is designated by the Secretary of State under section 4605(j) of title 50 (as continued in effect under the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (50 U.S.C. 1701 et seq.)), section 2780 of title 22, section 2371 of title 22, or any other provision of law, as a country, the government of which has repeatedly provided support of acts of international terrorism; or
(III) in any other country or area of concern designated by the Secretary of Homeland Security under subparagraph (D);

Note that at the top it says it's a waiver for section 1182 a, which after flipping back several pages in the website provides:

§§1182a to 1182c. Repealed. Pub. L. 87–301, §24(a)(1), (3), Sept. 26, 1961, 75 Stat. 657
Section 1182a, act Sept. 3, 1954, ch. 1254, §4, 68 Stat. 1145 , related to admission of aliens who were either convicted, or who admitted the commission, of a misdemeanor.

Now I don't know what that "repealed" means, but it was clearly originally meant to prevent those with criminal records from entering.

I shall have to retract my statement that Trump just picked countries he doesn't like, though I suppose the State Department list is of countries that have known terrorist training camps. The fact that Iranian students kept coming suggests the Obama administration wasn't doing anything near what the Trump administration is doing.

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Re: US General Election 2016

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sun Jan 29, 2017 4:15 pm

{{Lot of these sort of stories popping up in countries all over the world- heres a scottish version of it-

'An appeal to raise funds for a Glasgow vet caught up in the American flight ban has raised enough to pay for her tickets home just a few hours after being launched.
Hamaseh Tayari was told she could not fly from Costa Rica via New York as she travels on an Iranian passport.
She and her boyfriend had to book £2,600 flights via Madrid and London.
Dr Tayari told BBC Radio Scotland that the cost of the flights would leave the couple without money for food, rent and bills for the next few months.
But a crowdfunding appeal, launched by Women for Independence on Saturday evening, has already raised more than £6,000.
Dr Tayari grew up and studied in Italy, qualifying as a vet in 2012.
She was awarded a PhD by the University of Pisa after a short period of extra training in Switzerland and moved to Glasgow to continue her studies in November 2015.
She said: "I still have Iranian nationality, because I've never thought about changing it.
"I've never had any problems until now, maybe I've had to wait a bit longer for visas, but nothing like this has happened to me."- BBC Scotland }}}

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Re: US General Election 2016

Post by Mrs Figg on Sun Jan 29, 2017 4:17 pm

dress it up any way you like, this is bad. It could separate whole families. its also adding to the load of human misery not lessen it. I could understand stopping someone on a watch or terror list, but not ordinary citizens of these countries, it serves no purpose other than to make Trump look like a hard man, which is what he wants I suppose. This is more for unthinking muslim haters, rather than practical anti-terror policy, its all scenography.

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Re: US General Election 2016

Post by halfwise on Sun Jan 29, 2017 4:29 pm

I definitely don't see it helping things. He can still have all his policies, but apply them in a sensible schedule that doesn't leave people stranded with him seeming happy about it.

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Re: US General Election 2016

Post by malickfan on Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:46 pm

Nice one Donald, banning refugees on Holocaust memorial day...

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Re: US General Election 2016

Post by Eldorion on Sun Jan 29, 2017 7:53 pm

I feel more secure already.

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/316751-mccain-worried-about-reorganization-of-the-nsc

TL;DR - Bannon is now on the National Security Council but the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (the highest-ranking officer in the US military) and the Director of National Intelligence (who oversees all of the agencies that make up the US Intelligence Community) are no longer members but will still attend some meetings.

Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) on Sunday said he is concerned with President Donald Trump’s recent memorandum that reorganizes the National Security Council (NSC).

“I am worried about the National Security Council,” McCain told CBS’s “Face the Nation.”

Trump on Saturday signed a memorandum that restructured the NSC, adding White House chief strategist Stephen Bannon to “the principals committee,” and removing the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the director of national intelligence.

According to the memorandum, the director of national intelligence and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff "shall attend where issues pertaining to their responsibilities and expertise are to be discussed."

McCain, who chairs the Senate Armed Services Committee, called Bannon's placement on the NSC a “radical departure from any national security council in history."

Bannon is the former head of Breitbart News. He joined Trump’s campaign last August as its chief executive.
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Re: US General Election 2016

Post by halfwise on Sun Jan 29, 2017 9:18 pm

In what sane world does this make any sense?

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Re: US General Election 2016

Post by David H on Sun Jan 29, 2017 9:57 pm

halfwise wrote:In what sane world does this make any sense?

In the same world where Dick Cheney was a logical choice for VP.
I'll go out on a limb and predict we'll be talking a lot more about Bannon than Pence over the next 4 years....

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Re: US General Election 2016

Post by halfwise on Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:12 pm

Dick Cheney actually had some experience, no matter what else one might think of him. Bannon is closer to the court astrologer the King likes to listen to.

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Re: US General Election 2016

Post by Bluebottle on Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:17 pm


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Re: US General Election 2016

Post by David H on Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:48 pm

halfwise wrote:Dick Cheney actually had some experience, no matter what else one might think of him. Bannon is closer to the court astrologer the King likes to listen to.

They're both intelligent, ideologically driven, Tea Party favoring men from humble origins who've worked their way to the very top of the policy pyramid. Don't make the mistake of selling Bannon short. Wikipedia says he's got a masters from Georgetown in National Security Studies and served as a special assistant to the Chief of Naval Operations at the Pentagon. That's more than enough knowledge to be extremely dangerous.

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Re: US General Election 2016

Post by David H on Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:53 pm


That's our governor! I've got to root for the home team on this one. :carrot:

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Re: US General Election 2016

Post by halfwise on Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:57 pm

David H wrote:
halfwise wrote:Dick Cheney actually had some experience, no matter what else one might think of him.  Bannon is closer to the court astrologer the King likes to listen to.

They're both intelligent, ideologically driven, Tea Party favoring men from humble origins who've worked their way to the very top of the policy pyramid. Don't make the mistake of selling Bannon short. Wikipedia says he's got a masters from Georgetown in  National Security Studies and served as  a special assistant to the Chief of Naval Operations at the Pentagon. That's more than enough knowledge to be extremely dangerous.


Hmm, so he's more than just a hack. I suppose I'll have to confine my snark to policy rather than experience.

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