US General Election 2016

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Re: US General Election 2016

Post by halfwise on Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:56 pm

I suspect we're still getting the better part of the deal...

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Re: US General Election 2016

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:11 pm

{{My favourite bit is how Trump is tweeting about what a terrible deal Obama made in moving the Embassy- first it was a great deal- they got it cheap as that bit was due to be revived and rebuilt, and now property there is worth a mint, but more importantly Obama never made the deal at all- Bush did, on security grounds. So Trump is wrong in regards to this on everything- it wasn't a bad deal, it wasn't an Obama deal, and he is not coming not because he doesn't like the Embassy its because if he does come most of Britain will turn up to tell him to fuck off again. Nod }}}

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Re: US General Election 2016

Post by malickfan on Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:19 pm


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Re: US General Election 2016

Post by bungobaggins on Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:07 pm




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Re: US General Election 2016

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:23 pm

{{My worries about Trump are not that he is mad or has dementia, its that he knows exactly what he is saying and doing. Thats far worse to my mind.
He is dangerously conceding international ground to the Russians and the Chinese. His latest comments about African countries have led to real world ramifications- ambassadors have been recalled to explain things, public anger is very real there over it. That endangers US citizens and those who work for the government abroad. Africa is a tactical future battleground- its filthy rich in resources and China and Russia have been in there working hard for years to gain favour and get leverage. America is seceding that ground thanks almost solely to Trumps America First attitude. He has equally insulted Allies- the Prime ministers of the UK and France, he as insulted Germany, Holland and various other allies. Latest polling shows trust in America among allies to America is at an all time low of 32%.
America relies on these alliances for its security just as much as others rely on America for theirs.
There are very dangerous real world ramifications to some of Trumps off the cuff comments and early morning tweets. }}}

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Re: US General Election 2016

Post by halfwise on Sun Jan 21, 2018 4:51 am

I think it's good to look at crossover voters who support him and think he's doing a good job - shows up the very real biases in reporting. Also shows voter concerns that are not being met that led to him being elected.

I also happen to think they are wrong in their interpretations of what's wrong with America, but that doesn't erase the evident business confidence that has occurred during his administration.

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Re: US General Election 2016

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:03 am

{{Business has ever right to be confident- but how much of that is Trump is harder to know- he came into a rising economy and inherited an economy Obama era policies had largely managed to heal- economies are doing better across the world than they were after the last global crash and Trump has no responsibility for all those economies. US trends are just part of global trends.
In fact its arguable these days what difference any one countries fiscal policies can actually make any more in a global market. The Arms trade is through the roof since he took office though- a sign he is making the world less safer.
Far as I can see all Trump has done the US is slash regulations protecting workers and the environment and cut taxes for businesses increasing their profit margins.
Yes there may be some trickle down- but the history of trickle down economics is that it doesn't. }}}

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Re: US General Election 2016

Post by halfwise on Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:42 pm

I agree with all of that, but we still have voters who don't feel their needs and concerns are being met by either party.  Which is true.  Though we need more than simpleton policy to address that.

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Re: US General Election 2016

Post by bungobaggins on Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:30 pm

What I see is a president who promised to slash regulations when he entered office, which he has done, and an economy and stock market that was excited at this prospect. My 401k and Roth IRA have boomed since November 9 2016.

Do I think Trump should publicly take credit for it? No, because there will be a bear market eventually, and things will turn south as they always do, and then he will be bearing the blame for that, whether it is his fault or not. However, even if he didn't take credit for the boom, he would be blamed for the fall anyway, by the usual suspects. I think with the tax cuts this is less likely to happen this year, and we will probably see continued growth, I hope.

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Re: US General Election 2016

Post by halfwise on Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:42 pm

I'm all for clarifying and simplifying regulations that have grown by accretion, but not in favor of cutting regulations just because it benefits business. They were put there for a reason. A bunch of coal miners will find protections to health gone, and toxic pollution regulations are being watered down or ignored.

So they can get on with the program, but they need to listen to both sides before making decisions. I don't see that happening. It's arguable that democrats didn't listen to industry, but surely we can find somebody who does government right?

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Re: US General Election 2016

Post by Pettytyrant101 Yesterday at 4:55 am

we still have voters who don't feel their needs and concerns are being met by either party- Halfy

{{is that not always true? It is here!}}

and an economy and stock market that was excited at this prospect. My 401k and Roth IRA have boomed since November 9 2016.- Bungo

{{Problem is there is a much bigger picture here than any short term financial gains. As you rightly point out economies boom and bust its the nature of the capitalists system and no one has ever worked out a way yet to stop it happening. So to a large degree its not the main issue- it will rise and fall no matter what anyway.
Sadly governments only think to the next election but much of what Trump has done in deregulation may well come back later to cost America dearly in clean up costs, health costs and long term environmental damage and an erosion of the rights of workers. No point having your coal mining job back if most of the things which protected you from ill health long term, or exploitative hours or pay and pensions (and which took generations of workers fighting to get) are removed to make profit margins bigger.
These are all long term costs and history clearly shows its a real factor. But Trump has no long term thinking at all, possibly even less than a normal politician because he is clearly a narcissist- all he is concerned about is saying what Trump has done- the long term price of what he has done is not even a factor for him as its simply not as important as bragging rights on twitter. }}}

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Re: US General Election 2016

Post by David H Yesterday at 6:27 am


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Re: US General Election 2016

Post by halfwise Yesterday at 1:40 pm

Yeah, my problem is not with the theoretical change of policy - that's what elections are for - but with the thoughtless ways policy is being implemented.  Obama may have shipped back more immigrants than any previous president, but you didn't notice it because of the focus on criminals.  Trump's approach is to go after easy targets.  It's an extension of his simpleton personality that has carried over into deregulation as well.

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