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Re: All New Who

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:06 pm


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Re: All New Who

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:26 pm



{{In the spirit of this vid- how did you first start watching and what does the show mean to show? }}}

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Re: All New Who

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Mon Feb 06, 2017 3:18 pm


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Re: All New Who

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Mon Feb 06, 2017 3:26 pm



{{Coleman is Capaldi's pick}}}

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Re: All New Who

Post by Mrs Figg on Mon Feb 06, 2017 7:30 pm

Patterson is my first choice of all that lot. But Joe Gilgun remains for me the best Doctor we never had.
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Re: All New Who

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Tue Feb 07, 2017 2:04 am

{{ Coleman would bean interesting choice- she has an odd screen presence when she wants to, she has a broad resume in tv, film, theatre and across comedy and drama which is always handy for the Doctor role, and she presumably gets on well with Chibnall as she has starred in his show Broadchurch for three series.
I think if they are going to change the Doctor to female, and who knows!, an older woman would be a better choice than some pretty young thing.

Sheridan could be an interesting choice too for a female Doctor- another actress with broad range of talent and skills. She has put in some powerful drama performances: Mrs Bigg, Cilla, got a hat full of stage and theatre awards, and started out in comedy. She also can have when she wants a very big screen personality. And of course she knows her Who having played a companion to the 8th Doctor in Big Finish. }}}

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Re: All New Who

Post by Orwell on Tue Feb 07, 2017 2:09 am

A return to adventures and a younger audience and a woman Doctor. Who do I send my request to?

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Re: All New Who

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Tue Feb 07, 2017 2:17 am

{{Chris Chibnall- new showrunner and man who will have to cast the new Doctor.

By looks of it though we are getting a return to straightforward Doctor and companion on adventures for series 10. Moffats calling it a 'soft reboot' which is how he referred to series 5 when he took over- designed to be a clean slate starting point for new viewers to jump on-board, as 5 was. This is hardly surprising as had the BBC been able to get its act together last series, the Xmas special would have been Moffats last- so he wrapped up all his era stuff and left the slate clean for the new showrunner coming in. But now thats been delayed a year and Moffat had to stay on an extra year, pretty much he has no choice but the soft reboot as that was how it was intentionally left for Chibnall. Fuinny how things turn out.}}

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Re: All New Who

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Tue Feb 07, 2017 2:41 am

{{{I wonder if we shall see as marked a shift in style and tone when Chibnal beings as there was when Moffat did.
And I dont necessarily mean in writing here.
If you watch 11th Hour, Mofftas opener for his era the precredit sequence is shot in the RTD style and mood- it has Big Ben in it, its high octane, its brightly lit and colourful despite being set at night ect but as soon as the opening credits end the direction, lighting, cinematography, pacing all change dramatically and that becomes the consistent look of Moffat Who (and influenced later the look of Sherlock which shares many of the same directors as Who).

Will be interesting to see what changes Chibnal will bring and if it will extend to more than the writing but also the look. }}}

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Re: All New Who

Post by Forest Shepherd on Tue Feb 07, 2017 5:58 pm

A woman doctor eh? Is that where things are headed? Has Chibnal had anything to say on that topic?

I don't like Coleman for the role. I have seen her in too many other films and tv shows.

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Re: All New Who

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Tue Feb 07, 2017 6:21 pm

Is that where things are headed?- Forest

{{No one knows- but its got to be a possibility at this point I think.
Chibnal has yet to comment- hardly surprising as the casting process will only just have begun, if it even has. Whoever gets the job presumably wont be needed until the regen scene at the end of the 2017 xmas special- which usually goes into production in the Autumn- so they've got a few months yet to get it right. }}}

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Re: All New Who

Post by Mrs Figg on Tue Feb 07, 2017 6:50 pm

I really hope this is just fan-debate. they suffered enough from fan service in Sherlock, I am hoping Chibnall is going to ignore the pc pressures and just go for the best actor. which may happen to be female or Black. I just realized that Paterson has already worked with Capaldi in Neverwhere tv show, he was the Marquis de Carabas, he is a very charismatic actor. Like Gilgun he can do jovial and a bit sinister all at once. I really prefer a male Doctor, if they get a female Doctor wrong it could go very very wrong.
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Re: All New Who

Post by azriel on Tue Feb 07, 2017 6:57 pm

I'm an old fogey, I like guys as Dr Who. Smile

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Re: All New Who

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:00 pm

{{ I agree its a huge gamble Figg- and a risky role for any actress as if it does go wrong she is likely to get the brunt of the blame for it.
From a writing perspective the only time I can see it being legitimate is someone comes to Chibnal, or he has an idea which is really good and the necessity of the storyline requires the Doctor having a regen and change of sex- ie it should come from some narrative drive and with the enthusiastic backing of someone who wants to see their good story idea through.
What worries me is if its forced on Chibnal by the BBC for solely appeasement and pc reasons and not narrative ones- and wont really have the full enthusiastic backing of those behind the show that I feel would be required to make such a big change work. }}}

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Re: All New Who

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:15 pm


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Re: All New Who

Post by Amarië on Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:16 pm

Yeah, it can't be some shoehorned-in PC stuff. It would be one hell of gamble though, I am both hoping they have the guts to do it and scared to see what it might be.

If they have make a gay Asian dude who doesn't know martial arts OR sword fighting, that would be rather new too I think...

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Re: All New Who

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:22 pm

who doesn't know martial arts OR sword fighting- Amarie

{{What?! But the Doctor knows how to do both those things really well! Though admittedly its been a while since we saw some Venusian karate. }}


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Re: All New Who

Post by Amarië on Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:38 pm

Ahhh, what glorious battle scenes that was! Clearly this needs to be brought back! Laughing

A ginger Irishman then? That's a stereotype that could do with a positive boost. Keep the accent a bit at bay and I might be able to follow. Embarassed

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Re: All New Who

Post by Mrs Figg on Tue Feb 07, 2017 8:07 pm

although if they got Tilda Swinton I may have to back-track.

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Re: All New Who

Post by malickfan on Tue Feb 07, 2017 8:54 pm

R.E a female Doctor, my thoughts:

Honestly not sure how I feel about it...

Michelle Gomez quickly became one of my favourite Master's and the writers brushed off the gender swap quite quickly it wasn't treated as a gimmick (indeed she seems to be chanelling Delgado at times), she was a new incarnation who happened to be female (though the Master has always been a rather cliched, predictable and thin character compared to the Doctor...it's weird isn't it, people complain if the Doctors are too similar, yet always seem to want a Delgado clone for the Master...) rather than an regeneration who being female was the defining trait.

Transgender regeneration's have never seemed a far fetched idea to me given how crazy the basic premise of the show is (and the Matt Smith episode The Doctors Wife wasn't the first mention of it, in the BBC 8th Doctor Novels Inteference Part's 1+2 (published 1999) one of the main characters is a timelord who regenerates into a woman in his 13th incarnation, and the Big Finish Unbound audio 'Exile' has an alternate female incarnation of the Doctor) and I've never considered the Doctor an intrinsically male character, rather it is one who just happens to have been portrayed by men 13 times, there's lots of great actresses who would make great doctors, eccentric in some way, British accent and good comedic/empathy acting have been the only linking traits throughout the 13 incarnations.

So whilst it's something that I'm not massively opposed to from an in-universe point of view...I do have a few concerns about how a female Doctor would be written and received, I'm open to it...but is the fanbase, and show itself? There's nothing to say we can't have a female Doctor, but equally there's a lot to say that perhaps we shouldn't.

Casting a actress in the role could be good thing for several reasons i.m.o A) It would refresh the companion-doctor relationship, bring new elements to the Doctor's personality in a way that a male Doctor couldn't...on the other hand presumably they would bring in a male companion to balance out the tardis team, judging by New Who standards the companion might end up being overwritten and made feisty and self assured, then you'd have a tough male and an eccentric woman which is arguably more a stereotype than anything...

B) A female Doctor would get the fanbase talking/arguing in whole new ways, even it it falls flat on its face, it would be something that be create lots of debate for years to come

C) It would be a good thing to give the increasingly large female part of the (especially young kids) audience a modern pacifist hero who isn't characterized as a mere love interest, or over the top action hero

D) The Doctor has been predominately characterized as a heterosexual, or asexual male, he's married several times and has at least one granddaughter, having a female incarnation would be a good chance to address social commentary and the lore of how Gallifreyan society works wiht regards to gender...not that I'd want the show to get turned into a soap opera...and no doubt some detractors or critics would simply treat it as SJW propaganda or something...

E) Regeneration is supposed to be largely random and the Doctor clearly has less control over than other timelords, it seems a bit strange that he's been White and male 13 times in a row, casting a woman just to make things a bit difference shouldn't be the main reasoning for doing so, but we live in a very different time and Britain to when Who was first broadcast, and the show shouldn't be afraid to reflect that.

On the other it's a very divisive idea among the fans and casual viewers alike, and honestly...I haven't seen a great deal of excitement for the idea outside a few online echo chambers, many casual viewers wrote Capaldi off because he was old, imagine how they'd react to a actress getting the role when even now the 4th and 10th Doctors have cast such a long shadow over their successors (on the other hand, it might finally shut up some of the Tenannt fangirls endlessly moaning there's no eye candy to fawn over...)

Although I'm completely open to the idea providing the right actress was cast...I'm not entirely convinced it would mesh with the Doctor's existing personality and history without coming across as self indulgent and in your face.

I have a couple of main issues with the idea A) As I said I never considered the Doctor especially male...but the character has always been written as a male character, with a male outlook, male writers (for the most part) and a male viewpoint, so whilst you could argue a female incarnation would allow for a very fresh and vigorous exploration of what makes the Doctor the Doctor (after all, until we see a female incarnation could we truly argue the Doctor is a male character?)...he's been male 13 times before and it's worked fine, there's no pressing reason to change it boils down to...''Why not?' in that case...why not keep things the same? Which isn't necessarily a good argument either way.

I'd be worried that the writing for a female incarnation would focus too much on what makes her different (i.e trying too hard to prove a female incarnation works, rather than letting the character speak for herself and showing why she's still the same person at heart) it could only ending up alienating viewers, rather than establishing why she's still the same person at heart(s), which leads into my next point.

B) Casting an actress as the Doctor could mean the character/actress is put on a pedestal i.e I've come across arguments by some of those calling for a female Doctor wanting her to be written as tougher, cleverer, more exciting than ever before etc to prove it could work...i.m.o this would only point out how different the new incarnation is and how she ISN'T the same character as before, rather than reassuring viewers it was still fundamentally the same show just with a slightly different viewpoint, it could morph into something different...I suppose it's a loose loose situation looking at it from that point of view-if you don't address the changes that a female Doctor brings some might be disappointed and complain that it was a gimmick and not a necessary change...but if you write things differently some fans would be annoyed it's too different a character.

C)Doctor Who is about travel in time and space, for the larger part of recorded history women have often taken a back seat to men in political office, warfare etc and not treated as intellectual equals...although there aren't a huge amount of Historical episodes in New Who and no one wants to be lectured at, when you remember the problems Martha had as a black woman in the Victorian era, you'd have to take those and magnify them as a more frequent occurrence in most episodes. The Doctor is an authority figure, he shows up and 9 times out of 10 takes charge or schemes around pulling strings when no one notices, often he has trouble getting people to believe him...now imagine he's a woman in the 17-1800's instead of a man, in most cases what the Doctor has to say would lose a lot of its value to the people in that time period, intentionally or not the show would have to address gender issues on a more regular occurrence, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but some could view it as intrusive to an escapist show, or somewhat disingenuous if the issue wasn't addressed.

With a female Doctor the writers would have a dilemma-do you write her as very similar to the other incarnations but she just happens to be female, or do you make a point of pointing out how different things are now the doctor is a woman?

If you did the former people could complain that things haven't changed enough and that a woman was stunt casting, if you do the latter you could alienate viewers and risk putting the actress on a pedestal, the Doctor is one of the few pacifist male role models for young children, and I'm not sure I'd want to loose that, if they wanted to introduce a new female timelord they could bring back Romana easily enough.

If an actress auditions, is deemed the best candidate for the job and written well enough, I'd be completely supportive of it in principle...but I'm less sure the writers would be able to balance the need to prove a female doctor works and reassure fans nothing has changed, and a male Doctor has worked fine before so why change?

Would she be the female Doctor, or just a incarnation that happens to be female?

It's a very risky move for potentially little gain.

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Re: All New Who

Post by Forest Shepherd on Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:32 pm

Hmm..

Jenny and Vastra have come across as cringey to me in episodes like the snow-man Christmas Special in the way that the show relishes having them buck the expectations of Victorian England. The villain of that particular Special is partially defined by his discomfort in the face of their marriage. 

If that same thing were to happen more with a female Doctor in historical episodes I would not enjoy the show developing in that way.

I think the way in which PC culture translates the past through its own narrow definitions of what is and is not an acceptable belief is itself short-sighted and arrogant. So when that sort of PC-ness appears in episodes like the snowman Christmas special or the Sherlock Christmas special it pulls me out of the story because it feels like the show-creators are pandering to a particular subset of their audience while at the same time discrediting human history's twists and turns because people a few hundred years ago didn't share the same ideals about gender expression or whatever other topic is hot at the current time.


Last edited by Forest Shepherd on Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:11 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: All New Who

Post by Amarië on Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:17 pm

I agree with both. But the Doctor can be a woman. Being a man is easy in all times. Flash the psychic paper thing and he is a general, whatever. Instantly he is directly inside the main event. To get there as a woman would be far more complicated and interesting. I don't know if the writers are smart enough to write a woman.

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Re: All New Who

Post by Mrs Figg on Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:03 am

Good points from both and I agree with all your points. I prefer a male Doctor for all those reasons. I don't want a female Doctor to be suddenly interested in shoes and babies, and I don't want her to be extra badass to compensate for being female either. I must admit I did like Lady Christina de Souza type.
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Re: All New Who

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:11 am

{{{The same problem arises with a black Doctor male or female- there is the fact that every historical will in some fashion have to address the racism of the times and/or sexism.
Whilst this could be very refreshing and interesting the first once or twice it happens, its going to get pretty old after that if a chunk of story as to be wasted every time explaining how the Doctor yet again surmounts the attitudes of the day before they can on with the main job of adventures and saving the day}}}


I don't know if the writers are smart enough to write a woman.- Amarie

{{That strikes me as a tad sexist- if they can write a man why not a woman? One of the two main characters in Chibnal's Broadchurch is a woman after all and he seems to write her fine by all the plaudits its won}}

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Re: All New Who

Post by Mrs Figg on Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:20 am

well they haven't exactly excelled at female characters recently, since M took over. I cant think of one that isn't stereotypical. so yeah they either need to cut loose from the past or its going to suck. here's hoping they choose a bloke then none of this will be relevant. hey maybe they get a transgender person, problem solved. Grayson Perry might be perfect for the role, although he is defo a bloke.
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