All New Who

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Re: All New Who

Post by malickfan on Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:15 pm

It's taken me more than two years but as I'm just about to start Reckless Engineering I'm nearing my end of a read through of:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighth_Doctor_Adventures

There's been crushing lows (Legacy Of The Daleks, The Face Eater soaring heights Alien Bodies, The Year Of Intelligent Tigers, Father Time confused disappointments The Taking Of Planet 5 and head scratching, how the hell did this get past the BBC editors (The Adventuress Of Henrietta Street entries in the series (not to mention at least two jaw dropping events in the Interference novels), a mixed, but very fascinating and imaginative range of tie in fiction.

The EDA novels were already into the mid 40's when Storm Warning the first Big Finish 8th Doctor audio was released, and up to that point had just the TV Movie and McGann's other roles to use as inspiration to expand and develop the 8th Doctor, it's been really interesting to compare the two mediums, there's certainly references and similarities between the two ranges (and also a certain amount of continuity issues- e.g. there's absolutely no way to reconcile Legacy Of The Daleks with An Earthly Child from the 8th Doctor audios, but I guess that's one of the benefits/pitfalls of having no official canon in a time travel franchise-anything can happen at any point), and many of the novels weirdly capture the 8th Doctor of the audios, years before McGann returned to the role, but the novels also pushed the 8th Doctor in dramatically different directions that the BBC or Big Finish would never dream off, and comfortably stand as their own experimental era of Doctor Who.

It's been a very enjoyable journey reading through these novels (Fitz Kriener, a lazy chain smoking sexist layabout from the 1960's is the main companion in the range, lasting from The Taint right through to the ending The Gallifrey Chronicles he has quickly become one of my favourite companions, really refreshing to get a slightly useless, but loyal everyman who blunders through the stories, reluctantly helping the Doctor where he can, gradually growing from a self centered coward into a flawed hero of sorts, reminds me somewhat of the 2nd Doctor/Jamie 12th Doctor/Nardole partnerships, sometimes the most unlikely characters become the best ideas for companions), and I'll be sad to finish it, but I plan to keep hold of the books and revisit some of the novels in future years.

(And looking back at this series of novels, through the perspective of a familiarity  with New Who it's been rather amusing to see entire concepts, scenes or arcs ripped wholesale from the novels and reworked for the TV series...I wonder where RTD got the idea of
Spoiler:
A timewar between the Timelords and an enemy bleeding back from the future culminating in the Doctor destroying Gallifrey
from Suspect )

There's been very few I've hated, and I've enjoyed the majority of the novels, but I think my favorites so far (for quality and/or just standing out as different) would be:

The Bodysnatchers essentially a gothic serial from the Tom Baker/Phillip Hincliffe era of the early 1970's only with the 8th Doctor, features fan favourite character Professor George Lightfoot, the character later got a Big Finish spinoff series.



Alien BodiesI'm guessing Moffat was a fan, he certainly pinched some ideas from it...



Vampire Sciencevery much feels like a spiritual sequel to The TV Movie, it was actually supposed to revist Grace Holloway from the TV Movie but rights issues forced the authors to rewrite the story.



Seeing Ijust a great character study and page turner



Demontage really inventive, visual story that leaps of the page, in his second story Fitz already comes across as a great character.

Interference Book 1+2 a sprawling, near 700 page epic split across two novels, complicated plot, lots of interesting ideas and several jaw dropping moments, rather convoluted and pretentious at points i.m.o but it definitely pushes the limits of tie in fiction, definitely couldn't do this one on TV.



Frontier WorldsHillarious Bondian pastiche



The Scarlet Empress utterly bonkers in the best way possible, a very bizzare story much more of a fantasy than sci-fi



(The Ancestor CellA gloriously epic mess, and I mean that in a good way, very divisive novel and
Spoiler:
The Doctor doesdestroy Gallifrey in this story



The Turing TestThe whole Earth exile is gold, but this was a very surprising low key character study, definitely not what I expected from the cover...



Father TimeThe Doctor as an adoptive Father and family man exiled on earth in the 1980's, just fantastic, really captures the spirit of the 1980's and the 8th Doctor's morals, definitely in my top five, if I had to choose this would be the one novel I'd most like Big Finish to adapt one day, because it puts the Doctor in such a different story compared to BF's usual output



The Year Of Intelligent TigersA stunning piece of writing for a tie in novel i.m.o, and a great novel in its right, perhaps my favourite of the entire series, a bonkers plot, evocative world building, great dialogue, and a low key, slow paced character study add up to a very surprising, unusual novel



The City Of The Dead-A fun little romp, detailed descriptions and great dialogue



The Adventuress of Henrietta Street-I remember being A) Kinda perplexed by what I had just read and how it actually got past the BBC editors and B) Impressed by how imaginative/dark this story was, definitely a marmite book but a very good one! It introduces Sabbath a recurring character for the next 20 or so books, a time traveller from 1780's London, a sort of anti-Doctor...



Mad Dogs And Englishme, from the author of The Scarlet Empress and The Blue Angel another camp, lurid, bonkers story, very enjoyable, and of interest to everyone here, the story works in a parody of LOTR and Tolkien himself...I'd have liked to see this one filmed on a Classic Who budget just to see how weird it would be...



([b]Hope[/b-]Another enjoyable book, i.m.o the entire Anji/Fitz/Doctor run is pretty much gold as far as consistency, world building and story quality goes i.m.o, not all of the books push the boundaries but even the one that do 'trad' Who are rather good as far as tie in fiction goes)



([b]Trading Futures
Picture a late 90's Bond film, only with more humour and intergalactic space rhinos)



(The Crooked World-I never would have thought a Looney Tunes parody could make for such an enjoyable, morally grey book, great imagery and a surprising amount of pathos).

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The Thorin: An Unexpected Rewrite December 2012 (I was on the money apparently)
The Tauriel: Desolation of Canon December 2013 (Accurate again!)
The Sod-it! : Battling my Indifference December 2014 (You know what they say, third time's the charm)

Well, that was worth the wait wasn't it  Suspect


I think what comes out of a pig's rear end is more akin to what Peejers has given us-Azriel 20/9/2014
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Re: All New Who

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:40 pm

{{{I grew up on the TARGET novelizations- in the days before the internet or even much classic Who on VHS when it arrived the TARGET novelizations were often my first introduction to a classic story. A particular terrifying favourite as a child was the novelization of Web of Fear. I must have read that twenty times or more as a kid at least a full decade before I ever saw a single image from the original tv version or of the 2nd Doctor- the first 2 Doctors existed solely on the page for me for years.
They had excellent cover art too.



I haven't read many of the ones you mention Malick, though I know Moffat is indeed a fan and champion of Body Parts. }}}

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Re: All New Who

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:30 pm


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Re: All New Who

Post by malickfan on Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:33 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:

I haven't read many of the ones you mention Malick, though I know Moffat is indeed a fan and champion of Body Parts. }}}

Well he's Scottish, he's bound to to like Haggis Razz

If you meant Alien Bodies (which is fantastic by the way...or at least packed with lots of interesting ideas and plot, never would have thought the Krotons would make such an interesting adversary...) then yes it's pretty clear he was, plot points and scenes are 'coincidentally' lifted wholesale from the book such as
Spoiler:
the current Doctor encountering his future grave, the Doctor parking the Tardis halfway down a building,
a time war from the Doctor's future spilling back into his present
and it's littered with lots of timey wimey shenanigans, I think you'd enjoy it, you can probably pick up a cheap copy on ebay or amazon.

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The Thorin: An Unexpected Rewrite December 2012 (I was on the money apparently)
The Tauriel: Desolation of Canon December 2013 (Accurate again!)
The Sod-it! : Battling my Indifference December 2014 (You know what they say, third time's the charm)

Well, that was worth the wait wasn't it  Suspect


I think what comes out of a pig's rear end is more akin to what Peejers has given us-Azriel 20/9/2014
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Re: All New Who

Post by malickfan on Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:02 pm

Today I Learned there was a terrible Doctor Who charity single released in 1986 after the show was put on 18 month hiatus:

http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Doctor_in_Distress




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The Thorin: An Unexpected Rewrite December 2012 (I was on the money apparently)
The Tauriel: Desolation of Canon December 2013 (Accurate again!)
The Sod-it! : Battling my Indifference December 2014 (You know what they say, third time's the charm)

Well, that was worth the wait wasn't it  Suspect


I think what comes out of a pig's rear end is more akin to what Peejers has given us-Azriel 20/9/2014
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Re: All New Who

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:57 pm

'plot points and scenes are 'coincidentally' lifted wholesale from the book'- Malick

{{{Nothing coincidental about it- read an interview years ago that RTD and Moffat gave together on the 'wilderness years' and they both talked about ideas and stories that they had used or planned to use if they got a chance from books/radio ect they thought deserved to be in the 'proper' show. RTD went so far as to get Family of Blood and its original author to turn it into an episode (sadly, much as I enjoy that 2-parter it doesn't work nearly as well as the original book which was for the 7th Doctor whom the story suits much better- 10 is already pretty much like a human so the shift is not so great, when it happened to 7 it was a genuine shocker). }}}

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Re: All New Who

Post by malickfan on Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:44 pm

Couple of things Capaldi let slip at a convention panel:

Apparently he wasn't paid for the initial regeneration sequence (I think his appearance in the 50th Anniversary was shot on the same day) because he wasn't technically under contract at that point, the BBC only starts paying when you start filming the season proper.

'Listen' was the first episode where he felt he truly began to slot into and understand the character-he cites completely understanding the character now as one of the reasons he is leaving i.e it seems like he never wanted to get to a point where he completely knew what he was doing and going through the motions, the character arc of the 12th Doctor is complete.

Apparently Moffat hated the original Cybermen Laughing , they were only in the Series 10 finale because Capaldi kept pushing for them, Moffat relenting as a farewell present of sorts.

Capaldi has seen Jodie Whittaker's post regeneration performance and praises it highly, says we are in safe hand, he found out they had cast a woman for the 13th Doctor when the show's tailors asked for a different sized trousers for the regeneration sequence.

Capaldi is doing a film with Armando Iannuci next year...The Thick Of It Brexit special perhaps?

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The Thorin: An Unexpected Rewrite December 2012 (I was on the money apparently)
The Tauriel: Desolation of Canon December 2013 (Accurate again!)
The Sod-it! : Battling my Indifference December 2014 (You know what they say, third time's the charm)

Well, that was worth the wait wasn't it  Suspect


I think what comes out of a pig's rear end is more akin to what Peejers has given us-Azriel 20/9/2014
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Re: All New Who

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sun Oct 08, 2017 11:56 am

{{I knew about Listen being Capaldi's 'got it nailed' episode but I didn't know Moffat disliked the Mondasian Cybermen- he certainly made them work incredibly well in a modern context for someone who disliked them! }}}

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Re: All New Who

Post by malickfan on Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:53 pm

Teaser for the new part-animated Shada:



Personally, I don't really see the point in this, a mix of upscaled live action and cheap animation seems a odd way to complete the story, there's already four or five other versions of Shada (personally I actually preferred the audioplay with Paul McGann over the Tom Baker version) including the video release Baker narrated the gaps in, and frankly I don't think the story is as great as its reputation suggests, why couldn't they animate some of the lost 60's serials instead?

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The Thorin: An Unexpected Rewrite December 2012 (I was on the money apparently)
The Tauriel: Desolation of Canon December 2013 (Accurate again!)
The Sod-it! : Battling my Indifference December 2014 (You know what they say, third time's the charm)

Well, that was worth the wait wasn't it  Suspect


I think what comes out of a pig's rear end is more akin to what Peejers has given us-Azriel 20/9/2014
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Re: All New Who

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:38 pm

{{{I agree its overrated, its got a mystique because its Adams and everyone loves City of Death, and because it was never finished. But so many different versions of it now surely everyone has a version they can enjoy? Not sure we need another.

The Mirror is claiming the next series of Who is losing an episode per series but will be going from 45 minutes per episode to 1 hour.
I dont like losing an episode, but I do like the hour thing. Moffat was always trying to push for this (the last time he did so and fortunately succeeded was for Heaven Sent) it just gives secondary characters and plots that space they need to breath and solves the NUWho problem that has plagued the 45 minute format since the start of rushed final thirds. }}}

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Re: All New Who

Post by Pettytyrant101 Yesterday at 12:58 am

{{Who effects reel for series 10 from Milk studios who produce and make all the visual effects, cgi and physical for Who }}




{{The full Q&A with Capladi that Malick mentioned above- he is a very engaging speaker and entertaining anecdotes as well as some interesting thoughts on the Doctor in general and the show}}}}}


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Re: All New Who

Post by Pettytyrant101 Yesterday at 12:35 pm


{{{An interesting thing about Murray Gold's time since NuWho began and he has been composing its music, is, as far as I can recall at least, is that he is the only Who composer to have been required to include songs with lyrics as part of episode narratives.

The first was in the 10th Doctor era, the Song of Captivity and the Song of Freedom sung by the Ood-



then another Ood song, the one where they 'sing the Doctor to sleep' at his regeneration, Vale Decam-



His next song was for Abigail in the first of 11's xmas episodes: A Xmas Carol. Abigail was played by opera singer Kathleen Jenkins who also sang the piece simply entitled, Abigail's Song-



Gold's next song composition was in the Rings of Akhaten, much like Vale Decam this song is as much about the Doctors impending regeneration as the subject it hand and it reappears in the regeneration scene of 11. Like Abigails Song it was sung by the actress who played the part of Merry.



Think that's them all unless anyone can think of any Ive missed- and can you think of any other Who composer who has had to write songs as a feature of an episode?

Also whats your favourite Gold composed song and why? }}}

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