Beren and Luthien

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Re: Beren and Luthien

Post by azriel on Thu Jun 01, 2017 11:00 pm

I was starting to read the other 'stories of the day',
" In Canada, Ex-Nurse Pleads Guilty To Murdering 8 Nursing Home Patients "
Id like a copy of that book, & for some odd reason, I just didn't imagine Christopher Tolkien to be in his 90's.

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Re: Beren and Luthien

Post by halfwise on Thu Jun 01, 2017 11:37 pm

That was all pretty random, Az. scratch

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Re: Beren and Luthien

Post by Eldorion on Fri Jun 02, 2017 12:21 am

halfwise wrote:It will have his earliest version, his poetry version (though whether it will match Aragorn's selection remains to be seen), and a longer prose version, all incomplete.

I skimmed through it today and as far as I can recall the only later prose versions were selections from the Sketch of the Mythology, the Quenta Noldorinwa, and the early version of the Annals of Beleriand (all found in HoMe IV). They are all pretty short. There was also a bit of the Tale Nauglafring (another tale from the BoLT) included to shed light on what Beren and Lúthien got up to after their return from Mandos. Aside from that, the bulk of the book was the BoLT prose version and the Lay (poem)*. There were also several lengthy quotations from the 1977 Silmarillion included to give context to things. Relatively little in the way of commentary, but that's to be expected given the apparent purpose of this publication.

*That's the poem included in HoMe III, not the song Aragorn sings in FOTR, which has a distinct textual history.
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Re: Beren and Luthien

Post by halfwise on Fri Jun 02, 2017 11:42 am

Wait, it's mainly just a regurgitation of previously published material from Lost Tales and History of M.E.? That seems like a let-down.

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Re: Beren and Luthien

Post by azriel on Fri Jun 02, 2017 12:37 pm

Random Halfy ? Too much heat I say. Its been so hot here this merry month of May that I'm sure my brain has been boiled ! Hence rubbish grammar & random wittering's Very Happy Either way, Id like to get the book. Very Happy

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Re: Beren and Luthien

Post by malickfan on Fri Jun 02, 2017 1:45 pm

halfwise wrote:Wait, it's mainly just a regurgitation of previously published material from Lost Tales and History of M.E.?  That seems like a let-down.

It is, but the various B+L texts are largely incomplete or incompatible with each in other phrasing, length and tone, it might be possible to stitch together enough portions of each version to have a mostly coherent narrative, but a stand alone novel would also require essentially a page one rewrite to harmonize the tone, convert poem to prose, and substantial rewording (and invention) of lots of minor or major characters and plot points to make it flow as one text, it much more work than COH was (and COH didn't even include everything it could have).

Elthir or Eldo could probably explain the history of the story better than I could, but it seems novelizing it was an approach CT was either unable or unwilling to take.

It remains to be seen how successful and popular this H.O.M.E light approach is...

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Re: Beren and Luthien

Post by malickfan on Fri Jun 02, 2017 1:46 pm

azriel wrote:I was starting to read the other 'stories of the day',  
" In Canada, Ex-Nurse Pleads Guilty To Murdering 8 Nursing Home Patients "      

I don't remember reading that version in the H.O.M.E, bit different to what you'd normally expect from Tolkien Laughing

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I think what comes out of a pig's rear end is more akin to what Peejers has given us-Azriel 20/9/2014
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Re: Beren and Luthien

Post by azriel on Fri Jun 02, 2017 5:48 pm

Rolling Eyes Laughing

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Re: Beren and Luthien

Post by Eldorion on Sat Jun 03, 2017 1:45 am

halfwise wrote:Wait, it's mainly just a regurgitation of previously published material from Lost Tales and History of M.E.?  That seems like a let-down.

As Christopher puts it in the preface (quoted upthread): "this book does not offer a single page of original and unpublished work."

malickfan wrote:It is, but the various B+L texts are largely incomplete or incompatible with each in other phrasing, length and tone, it might be possible to stitch together enough portions of each version to have a mostly coherent narrative, but a stand alone novel would  also require essentially a page one rewrite to harmonize the tone, convert poem to prose, and substantial rewording (and invention) of lots of minor or major characters and plot points to make it flow as one text, it much more work than COH was (and COH didn't even include everything it could have).

Elthir or Eldo could probably explain the history of the story better than I could, but it seems novelizing it was an approach CT was either unable or unwilling to take.

It remains to be seen how successful and popular this H.O.M.E light approach is...

What Christopher did with The Children of Húrin was possible because of the substantial prose version of the story that Tolkien wrote in the 1950s. This was published in Unfinished Tales and, except for a gap in the middle of UT version, it is very close to the stand-alone edition published decades later. There was no comparably developed late version of Beren and Lúthien to draw on, however, so trying to produce a finished version that could stand next to LOTR and The Silmarillion would have required Christopher to write most of the book himself.
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Re: Beren and Luthien

Post by Elthir on Tue Jun 06, 2017 1:16 pm

Got my copy! As with Children of Hurin, I'm liking the black and white illustrations better than the colour.

Admittedly, since I've read it all before, it's not jumping to the front on my reading list. Hmm... or is it. Maybe.
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Re: Beren and Luthien

Post by Forest Shepherd on Wed Jun 07, 2017 4:19 am

malickfan wrote:Alan Lee will once again be on illustrating duties, are there any scenes in particular from the story you are keen to see illustrated?
Thuringwethil!

With, you know, all the blood falling to the ground in that one scene... I forget the details. Hm.. better go: study

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Re: Beren and Luthien

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sat Jun 17, 2017 3:07 pm


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Re: Beren and Luthien

Post by halfwise on Sat Jun 17, 2017 3:20 pm

Can't say I agree with his version of Huan with a pony gait.

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Re: Beren and Luthien

Post by azriel on Sat Jun 17, 2017 5:06 pm

I just liked listening to his quiet unruffled voice & thinking, how maybe that small gang of people would sound like chatty in a front room. Pipes & cigarette smoke, fire crackling in the grate, tea in china cups chinking on china saucers. woody smells & tweed jackets with spare pipes in the pocket.

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