Amazon, Warner Bros in Talks for LOTR Series Adaptation: Variety

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Amazon, Warner Bros in Talks for LOTR Series Adaptation: Variety

Post by Eldorion on Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:53 am

Potential megaton if true.

http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/lord-of-the-rings-amazon-1202606519/

Warner Bros. Television and the estate of J.R.R. Tolkein are in talks with Amazon Studios to develop a series based on the late author’s “The Lord of the Rings” novels. Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos is said by sources with knowledge of the situation to be personally involved in the negotiations, which are still in very early stages. No deal has been set.

...

But the pursuit of “The Lord of the Rings” is in line with a new programming mandate dictated this year by Bezos, who, months before Price departed, ordered him to shift Amazon Studios away from niche, naturalistic series such as “Transparent” and “Mozart in the Jungle” and toward large-scale genre programming with potential for broad international appeal. As part of that shift, Amazon canceled two series, “Z: The Beginning of Everything” and “The Last Tycoon,” and began shifting resources away from Lewis’ development team and to a unit led by event-series exec Sharon Tal Yguado. With Lewis’ departure, Tal Yguado was named head of scripted series, reporting to Price’s interim replacement, Amazon Studios COO Albert Cheng.

Full article at link.
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Re: Amazon, Warner Bros in Talks for LOTR Series Adaptation: Variety

Post by Eldorion on Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:00 am

Would also like to draw attention to Variety's bizarre description of the legal situation:

The studio and the Tolkein estate have been shopping a series based on the classic fantasy novels and their assortment of hobbits, wizards, and warriors, sparking a competitive situation from which Amazon has emerged as the frontrunner. Representatives for Amazon and Warner Bros. declined to comment.

Setting aside the fact that Variety misspelled Tolkien's name*, the Estate doesn't have the legal right to "shop around" an LOTR adaptation even if they wanted to (and there's no reason to believe that they suddenly do). The adaptation rights to TH and LOTR were sold by Tolkien before his death, and are currently held by the Saul Zaentz Company d/b/a Middle-earth Enterprises. The article mentions the Tolkien Estate's lawsuit against WB later in the article but that lawsuit obviously didn't stop The Hobbit trilogy from being released so I really don't think it's relevant here either.

I assume this just stems from Variety or their source confusing the Estate and Middle-earth Enterprises though, rather than the whole report being bogus. People who should know better get the two confused all the time. It was even worse back when the latter's name was "Tolkien Enterprises".

*Looks like they've fixed it now.


Last edited by Eldorion on Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:29 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Amazon, Warner Bros in Talks for LOTR Series Adaptation: Variety

Post by halfwise on Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:07 am

I think serializing the books so they can be done right - much like GoT (Blue, settle down) - would be a good move. And even if the rights are owned by Saul Zaentz the production would gain immense credibility if given the nod by the Tolkien Estate. If I were Amazon I'd know I could easily buy (or lease, however it works) the rights; it's getting the seal of approval that would require focus.

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Re: Amazon, Warner Bros in Talks for LOTR Series Adaptation: Variety

Post by Eldorion on Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:16 am

The Estate will never give their blessing to a screen adaptation (edit: or any other kind of adaptation, most likely).

I'm not hugely optimistic about this being good. I mean, I'm open to being proven wrong, but I wouldn't expect it. It still feels kinda soon for a re-adaptation. I mean, sure, the LOTR trilogy is about 15 years old now, but the final PJ Middle-earth movie EE is only two years old. I assume from the article that they are talking about a re-adaptation of the story proper. Certainly huge shoes to fill in terms of both book fans and movie fans.

I was sorta expecting a spin-off movie to be announced by now, but this is definitely a surprise to me. Fully possible nothing will come of it, but yeah. In all honesty though -- and I don't think I would've said this a couple years ago -- I kinda miss the energy and excitement surrounding new adaptations. Sure, The Hobbit didn't garner as much attention as a lot of people hoped (and there were good reasons for that), it still gave us this forum. Tolkien fandom isn't going away entirely regardless of what happens with this potential project, but it would be cool (IMO) to see things popping a bit more. Beren and Lúthien proved pretty conclusively that new posthumous publications don't arouse much excitement outside of the academic side of Tolkien fandom, but it's unlikely that there will be any other publications as high profile as Beren and Lúthien forthcoming anyway.
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Re: Amazon, Warner Bros in Talks for LOTR Series Adaptation: Variety

Post by azriel on Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:28 am

Id like to see an honest, faithful reconstruction of one of Tolkiens stories. I'm fond of Turin Turambar story. But even doing the others like Farmer Giles of Ham, Tree And leaf, even those would be nice to look at.

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Re: Amazon, Warner Bros in Talks for LOTR Series Adaptation: Variety

Post by Eldorion on Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:02 am

Deadline reports that studios/channels are being asked to pay $200-250 million just to license the rights to make a TV series, which does not include rights over all the characters and concepts.

http://deadline.com/2017/11/lord-of-the-rings-series-eyed-warner-bros-tv-amazon-1202201636/

They continue to further the Estate line which, still, I find extremely unlikely, but it being reported in two different trade publications is :/ Asking for a ridiculous amount would be totally in line with precedent from the Saul Zaentz Company though.
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Re: Amazon, Warner Bros in Talks for LOTR Series Adaptation: Variety

Post by Forest Shepherd on Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:35 am

What the fuck. Absolutely ridiculous.

It must come to nothing. This is like re-making Titanic.

Well, not quite. But you know what I mean.

A portion of the purist side of things might suggest that this is an opportunity to adapt LotR more "faithfully". But of all the Tolkien fans that disliked the movies, I think only a small percentage of them would actually enjoy this production. Many are simply too deeply enmeshed in Tolkien's writing to be able to enjoy any filmic adaptation.

To be fair, part of me is jittery with excitement at the prospect of a long-form adaptation of LotR complete with Farmer Maggot, the Barrow-downs, the Council of Elrond, etc. But another part of me is kind of disgusted with the idea of Jeff "Richer-than-sin" Bezos's company further muddying the streaming market with an over-produced and over-hyped version of Tolkien's magnum opus.

I don't think I could handle experiencing the internet's cultural digestion of an Amazon-produced LotR. You know what I mean? The arguments, the moronic Reddit posts, the hype. There is something relatively precious or small about all of the online discussion that I missed back during the production of LotR. Witnessing that same discussion take place now in today's invasive internet culture is a distressing prospect. I realize that opinion may stem from a romanticizing of early internet forums, but I think I may be on to something.

Also, I just feel... a bit apprehensive about certain aspects of adaptation being influenced by present-day gender and racial politics. I can see it so clearly in my mind, a pair of show-runners like those guys from GoT chatting during a post-episode:

"Yeah so I think most people were probably happily surprised during this episode. I mean, very early on during pre-production we gathered the writers and literary experts together and hashed out some questions we had coming into the project. I remember one question came up in particular. It was, "Why aren't there any black elves?". Building off of that we got to where we are today, with a Rivendell that is far more representative of the sort of diversity that we absolutely need in a story as universally loved as Lord of the Rings."

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Re: Amazon, Warner Bros in Talks for LOTR Series Adaptation: Variety

Post by malickfan on Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:25 am

Beat me to it Eldo.

Utterly confused and very surprised, I find it very unlikely the Tolkien Estate has any involvement with this, it is much more likely those articles got the details confused.

A LOTR TV series is on some levels an exciting idea, as it would be interesting to see an adaptation that would have more time to reflect and portray the true story and tone of the novel...on the other hand I am very very doubtful Amazon WB etc has any real interest in doing a more faithful adaptation it would probably just be reworked into a game of thrones clone with less sex, but more orc slashing.

I just don't think LOTR can be adapted very faithfully to a live action format with all the constraints and expectations of modern audiences, it wouldn't be adaptating Tolkien's LOTR, it would be copying PJ's on a smaller budget.


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Re: Amazon, Warner Bros in Talks for LOTR Series Adaptation: Variety

Post by malickfan on Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:41 am

Honestly, I'd be more excited by a Tales From The Perilous Realm TV series.

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Re: Amazon, Warner Bros in Talks for LOTR Series Adaptation: Variety

Post by malickfan on Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:46 am

Random thought, perhaps TV rights weren't included in the original 1969 sale of the rights?

Tolkien didn't watch much TV, and the format was still in relative infancy as far as big budget projects go at the time, perhaps he simply never considered selling screen rights on the format. Maybe the T Estate have come to a deal with WB/SZ company etc to trade some of the rights back in exchange for having creative input?

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Re: Amazon, Warner Bros in Talks for LOTR Series Adaptation: Variety

Post by TranshumanAngel on Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:51 am

Ugh...where to even start with this...

Perhaps with a hello...I posted here a few times a year or two back and this news prompted me to come out of my shell again.

As others have written, this could be an interesting opportunity for a more faithful adaptation, one allowed to linger in the Old Forest, visit Tom and Goldberry, and really flesh out the themes of loss and nostalgia so central to the books (which Jackson, bless his heart, really didn't understand at all). It's also a chance to develop a different look for the world, perhaps in some places more in keeping with Tolkien's own vision.

The success of this really rests on whether or not the writers at Amazon conceive of The Lord of the Rings as a *literary* adaptation or the mere 'rebooting' of a franchise. If, as is overwhelmingly likely, the latter conceit is adopted, then I think we will get a bowdlerized version of Middle-earth, complete with 21st Century racial politics and a few kick ass Powerful Female Characters (think Tauriel) added to the Fellowship. This situation would sit badly with me, and would, I think, fail to please anyone. The fans of the books would be disgruntled at the hacksaw taken to their beloved book, ordinary fans would fail to connect because such a safe version would seem a pale imitation in comparison to both the books and especially the uber-serious Jackson movies, and the political types on twitter will never be satisfied unless the writers somehow manage to cater to their every ideological demand (and trust me, there will be plenty).

If the literary approach is adopted, and the source material is treated with reverence, then something truly beautiful might be created, but this to me seems like an unlikely scenario, unless there are individuals involved who are determined to make something great. Bezos himself is said to be a fan, so perhaps his influence could actually work in the adaptation's favour, but who knows. We live and wait.

RE. Eldorion's comment about Beren and Luthien. I'm not quite sure that its muted reception says anything about Tolkien as a cultural phenomenon, just that modern readers are not particularly enthralled by what are essentially scholarly texts dressed up as popular fiction. After all, The Children of Hurin was massively successful (probably Tolkien's greatest success after The Lord of the Rings in publishing terms) and that was only ten years ago. The Beowulf translation was also, surprisingly perhaps, well received in the popular press. I think Tolkien is in fact enjoying a popular moment. The Tolkien film is underway, and games like Shadow of Mordor, despite the ridiculousness of the story, attest to the popularity of Middle-earth. If the show is written, acted and designed really well, it could make a real mark, but we wait and see, of course.
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Re: Amazon, Warner Bros in Talks for LOTR Series Adaptation: Variety

Post by TranshumanAngel on Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:57 am

malickfan wrote:Random thought, perhaps TV rights weren't included in the original 1969 sale of the rights?

Now this could be a really exciting possibility. I have no idea about the TV rights - but it just seems unconscionable that Christopher would acquiesce to any kind of visual adaptation. My initial thoughts upon reading the news about the show were that CJRT was perhaps interested in making a really faithful adaptation before he departs the Circles of the World. But who knows. Interesting thoughts though.
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Re: Amazon, Warner Bros in Talks for LOTR Series Adaptation: Variety

Post by bungobaggins on Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:03 am

Oh? So now Jeff Bezos is bucking to be my least favorite person of all time. Hope this is made and it's an utter failure. Twisted Evil
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Re: Amazon, Warner Bros in Talks for LOTR Series Adaptation: Variety

Post by Eldorion on Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:51 am

Too tired to offer much of a response to anything right now, but the Rankin/Bass films were both originally TV movies, so I would assume those rights were included in the sale. For what it's worth, Middle-earth Enterprises do not explicitly claim TV rights on their website, but (a) that might just be because there hasn't been an officially sanctioned TV series* yet, and (b) Middle-earth Enterprises' interpretation of their rights can sometimes be ... odd, though usually that's in the direction of claiming greater rights, not fewer.

http://www.middleearth.com/

*To the best of my knowledge, the Finnish series Hobitit ("The Hobbits"; an adaptation of LOTR) was made without the approval of the relevant rights-holders, as was the 1985 Soviet TV movie version of The Hobbit.

EDIT: also, it's really good to see you again, THA! Wave I will do my best to offer a full response tomorrow (later today Razz) when I'm more awake.
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Re: Amazon, Warner Bros in Talks for LOTR Series Adaptation: Variety

Post by TranshumanAngel on Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:14 am

Hi Eldo, nice to be back. It does seem unlikely that the TV rights would not be bundled in with whatever rights the Middle-earth Enterprises company already owns - and the notion of the Estate actively going out of their way to actually initiate an adaptation seems ridiculous.
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Re: Amazon, Warner Bros in Talks for LOTR Series Adaptation: Variety

Post by azriel on Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:29 pm

Powerful & emotive thread. Two camps from where I see. Followers of Tolkien who adore the books, worship the world & Idolise the man.
Fans............ phuff... Love the films, like the action, buy the popcorn. I agree with THA ( Hello ! Very Happy ) Out come the hacksaws. Everything in this fucked up world is now PC or, groups jump up & down shouting discrimination, racism, feminism, Gay rights, Animal cruelty, shorter working hours, Health & Safety, Canteen must cater for Vegans, vegetarians, Gluten free etc. So, I could see a Tolkien story so far chipped & stretched out to include all todays society "needs" that it will look more like a Kevin Sorbo "Hercules" meets "Zena Princess Warrior". Set in the Everglades & losing all feeling of Tolkien's World altogether.

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Re: Amazon, Warner Bros in Talks for LOTR Series Adaptation: Variety

Post by halfwise on Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:43 pm

Hiya THA! Wave Good to have you back

Forest Shepherd wrote:
Also, I just feel... a bit apprehensive about certain aspects of adaptation being influenced by present-day gender and racial politics. I can see it so clearly in my mind, a pair of show-runners like those guys from GoT chatting during a post-episode:

"Yeah so I think most people were probably happily surprised during this episode. I mean, very early on during pre-production we gathered the writers and literary experts together and hashed out some questions we had coming into the project. I remember one question came up in particular. It was, "Why aren't there any black elves?". Building off of that we got to where we are today, with a Rivendell that is far more representative of the sort of diversity that we absolutely need in a story as universally loved as Lord of the Rings."

Neutral


Damn that was good. Laughing

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Re: Amazon, Warner Bros in Talks for LOTR Series Adaptation: Variety

Post by halfwise on Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:06 pm

I'd like to know how this thing about not including rights to all characters works. Why would they do that? Would they only allow rights to characters already portrayed in the movies? If they don't want to give rights to all characters, where does that leave hopes of a faithful adaptation? Perhaps they are just leaving out the appendices? (makes sense because there's arguably more story material in the appendices than in the books themselves).

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Re: Amazon, Warner Bros in Talks for LOTR Series Adaptation: Variety

Post by Forest Shepherd on Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:50 pm

I'm curious about that too. If a TV adaptation only included characters seen in the trilogy, then what's the point really?

It just goes to show Eldo, that this sort of thing would be an enormous boost to Forumshire what with how THA just showed up to comment! (Hi THA)

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Re: Amazon, Warner Bros in Talks for LOTR Series Adaptation: Variety

Post by Forest Shepherd on Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:08 pm

You'd think they could do a liiittle fact checking. But no, it's the "Tolkien Estate" who is selling the movie rights apparently...

https://www.theverge.com/2017/11/3/16605272/lord-of-the-rings-jrr-tolkien-game-of-thrones-amazon-studios

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Re: Amazon, Warner Bros in Talks for LOTR Series Adaptation: Variety

Post by halfwise on Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:24 pm

Actually an interesting point: are movie rights separate from TV rights?

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Re: Amazon, Warner Bros in Talks for LOTR Series Adaptation: Variety

Post by bungobaggins on Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:52 pm

Forest Shepherd wrote:

It just goes to show Eldo, that this sort of thing would be an enormous boost to Forumshire what with how THA just showed up to comment! (Hi THA)

That's exactly what I was going to say. The only good that could come from this is that it would rekindle the online fandom in a way we haven't seen since 1999.
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Re: Amazon, Warner Bros in Talks for LOTR Series Adaptation: Variety

Post by Eldorion on Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:40 pm

Alright, so lots to try to respond to. Razz

Regarding the rights situation, Middle-earth Enterprises holds the rights to make video game adaptations of The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings. Fifteen years ago, when the rights to make games based directly on the books vs games using intellectual property from the films were held by different companies, it was Tolkien Enterprises (as MeE was then known) that licensed the former. I can't imagine that video games were explicitly named in the contract wherein Tolkien originally sold the adaptation rights to the books in the late '60s, so even if TV rights were not explicitly named either, and I imagine that they would be included as well. So the talk about the Estate really makes no sense to me. They don't have the legal authority to be involved in the way that people are claiming, even if for some reason they suddenly changed their minds about adaptations. (And it's not solely Christopher who takes a dim view of them!)

From everything I've seen there are two stories that the whole entertainment press is now running with. There's the original Variety exclusive, which identifies the Estate as being involved. They do so on the basis of anonymous sources who are aware of the negotiations. Now, as those of us who remember the early days of The Hobbit's pre-production already know, articles based on anonymous sources should always be taken with a grain of salt. That said, Variety is a reputable trade publication, not a gossip rag, so I'm inclined to believe that they're not just making this up. However, it is easy to imagine that either they or their source simply got the Estate and M-e Enterprises confused. It's a common mistake to make. At the end of the Variety article they talk about the Estate's lawsuit being resolved, but there's no indication that this came from their source, as opposed to being something Variety decided to include after (presumably) being confused initially.

The other article is the Deadline one. Deadline is ... I wouldn't consider them as reliable as Variety, but they're hardly the Daily Mail either. Their article is also based entirely on anonymous sources. It's worth noting that they didn't publish their piece until after Variety's exclusive appeared. This could mean that after reading it, Deadline went to insiders who they have established relationships with to ask for more information. It could mean they received the news independently but were slower on the draw in terms of publishing it. Or maybe something else; who knows. I'm not in a position to be familiar with all the ins and outs of the entertainment industry. I don't think the idea of the Estate being involved makes any sense whatsoever, but at this point I'm willing to wait for official confirmation before mouthing off even more.

As I mentioned in an earlier post and as Malickfan and bungo have touched on since as well, I think this could potentially be a boost to the fandom, and that is an exciting thought. To address THA's response:

RE. Eldorion's comment about Beren and Luthien. I'm not quite sure that its muted reception says anything about Tolkien as a cultural phenomenon, just that modern readers are not particularly enthralled by what are essentially scholarly texts dressed up as popular fiction. After all, The Children of Hurin was massively successful (probably Tolkien's greatest success after The Lord of the Rings in publishing terms) and that was only ten years ago. The Beowulf translation was also, surprisingly perhaps, well received in the popular press. I think Tolkien is in fact enjoying a popular moment. The Tolkien film is underway, and games like Shadow of Mordor, despite the ridiculousness of the story, attest to the popularity of Middle-earth. If the show is written, acted and designed really well, it could make a real mark, but we wait and see, of course.

I think we're largely on the same page here. I agree that Tolkien remains a cultural phenomenon and that Tolkien fandom is not going to disappear, but it is in a bit of a dormant period right now. Academic Tolkien studies titles have never enjoyed widespread popularity either among Tolkien fans or the general reading public. Beren and Lúthien was an attempt to bring in a more casual crowd but it received even less attention in either of the aforementioned circles than most of Christopher's other post-Children of Húrin books. I'm also not sure how much attention the literary biopic of Tolkien will bring in, but Shadow of Mordor definitely testifies to the ongoing popularity of Middle-earth and people's interest in at least some new works in that setting, given the right circumstances.

I am far from convinced that this hypothetical LOTR TV series will be any good, but I'm also willing to see what it's like before totally condemning it. I was pessimistic about The Hobbit long before almost everyone else on this forum, so while I don't think they were good films, the disappointment did not sting as much for me as did for some people. I don't yet have any specific reasons to dislike this adaptation. I think my general pessimism is grounded in something more than "change is bad and I don't like it", but I'm no going to get vitriolic over it. The only Amazon Studios series I've seen is The Man in the High Castle which I find entertaining enough despite my reservations with it, but Imma wait until we find out what the creative team behind LOTR TV is (assuming it moves forward at all, which isn't guaranteed).

Finally ... look, I'm not trying to start a fight, but I said something similar in the Doctor Who thread recently so I'm just gonna lay it out here. I think we as a fandom need to do some serious soul-searching as to why the idea of people of color in Middle-earth provokes such a strong reaction. To be clear, I am not accusing anyone here of being an open racist, but we're all impacted by the engrained cultural attitudes we grow up with. Just don't give me the "realism" argument, because neither Middle-earth nor actual medieval Europe were as racially homogenous as they are typically depicted. But furthermore, art is not made in a vacuum. Tolkien's works were written in a time when the idea of medieval Europe being totally white was even more common than it is now. It also reflects the contemporary context in which Tolkien himself lived and wrote. I don't think it is wrong for modern adaptations to be made in a way that reflects the changes in historiography and culture since the 1940s. (Though I don't mean to imply that everyone in the 1940s shared the same attitudes towards race.)

Let's look at it from a Lore perspective for now, though. There is a lot of migration of peoples throughout the history of Middle-earth. Migration means intermarriage. Gondor ruled a huge chunk of Middle-earth in the mid-Third Age. A sprawling cosmopolitan empire involves people traveling and resettling within it. Tolkien explicitly states in Appendix F that the majority of the population of Gondor proper (to say nothing of Harad) had an ethnically mixed background. The majority of that descent came from the indigenous inhabitants of Gondor (the Dúnedain were always a small minority), who were related to the Halethrim and the Dunlendings. And guess what? They were dark-skinned (ROTK, VI 1). (This also means that the Halethrim in the First Age were dark-skinned too.) So in Gondor, especially in its early days, we have a largely dark-skinned native population being ruled over by a mostly light-skinned elite. And in Rohan in the mid-Third Age, we have a predominately white people expelling the dark-skinned inhabitants of a region (the Dunlendings) in order to take that region as their own country, something that the Rohirrim themselves in LOTR don't even try to justify on moral grounds. Fiction isn't written in a vacuum, and Tolkien himself drew attention to the colonial parallels. Read the appendices to "The History of Galadriel and Celeborn". Read "Tal-Elmar" for god's sake. Tolkien, whatever his personal opinions on race may have been, explicitly and repeatedly called out Dúnedain imperialism for the oppressive, murderous phenomenon that it was.

And that's not to say that I know all about Tolkien's attitudes on race, or that I think his opinions map directly on to modern progressive ones. I doubt they do. There are some eyebrow-raising moments throughout his writing. But he also wrote his stories while staying very cognizant of their internal textual history and the people who recorded them. But film can't reproduce the source tradition in a 1:1 manner. As a visual medium, it is more readily suited to giving a quasi-objective view of things. This is especially true in sprawling, multi-character, worldbuilding-heavy fantasy epics, because the camera is often detached from the viewpoint of any individual character. So why not take the opportunity to explore an aspect of Tolkien's subcreation which has been so often ignored? And why not acknowledge the existence of mixed-race people and depict people of color in roles other than victims, whether of Sauron or of the Dúnedain? Especially since films are inescapably a product of their time and culture. If Tolkien fans feel that this somehow destroys the integrity of the original work, I think that says more about the world we live in than anything inherent to Tolkien's writing.

I'm not even saying that I think greater diversity in casting is a likely outcome. It's very possible that this show, if it is made, sticks to the overwhelmingly white mode of most fantasy. And if it does, I'm not gonna boycott it or anything. I might be a little disappointed at the missed opportunity but I don't think the show has an obligation to address these issues. But I am discouraged by the knee-jerk response to even the outside chance of fantasy fiction being less white, and I don't want to be part of a community where no one calls that out. If I am alone in this perspective, that's fine; I don't plan on making a habit of jumping in with a screed like this every time some comment is made. I don't think that would ultimately be helpful or productive. But I do want to put this out here at the start for the sake of any lurkers who may be reading this thread and to speak my own conscience. If I end up withdrawing from discussions of the show, you guys know why.

Peace.
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Re: Amazon, Warner Bros in Talks for LOTR Series Adaptation: Variety

Post by bungobaggins on Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:53 pm

I really didn't care when they tried to diversify Lake Town in DOS. It made sense, but I think the only problem I would have is if they did something like they did with the Dark Tower movie, change the race of a main character just for the sake of changing the race. Roland was supposed to look like Clint Eastwood...

And we don't even know if this is actually going to be made, so in the mean time it's

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Re: Amazon, Warner Bros in Talks for LOTR Series Adaptation: Variety

Post by TranshumanAngel on Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:58 pm

I think my own opinions are best captured by this post courtesy of u/uluithiad of r/tolkienfans:

This is the problem with most stances that are similar to yours. Because Tolkien cared so little about the identity politics that gorge themselves on race, race, race, much (I say 'much', not 'all') of what he wrote is either absent of such description or done with enough vagueness to satisfy a spectrum of interpretation. And then, the people who do play those identity politics have the habit of perceiving their ideas mapped onto Tolkien as being Tolkien's ideas, depending on how 'just' or 'problematic' they want to hold him.
If you've identified only the relatively primitive Woses as non-white and left off the Men of Lossarnach and Lebennin, who while of Gondor are actually explicitly given the same color descriptors as the enemies of Gondor you claim are identifiable as non-white, the problem isn't with Tolkien.

Link:

[url=https://www.reddit.com/user/Uluithiad/?count=250&after=t1_dkbemrf]https://www.reddit.com/user/Uluithiad/?count=250&after=t1_dkbemrf[/url
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