Young Aragorn plot possibilities

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Young Aragorn plot possibilities

Post by Eldorion on Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:10 pm

So I think that the new TV series will most likely focus on the travels and adventures of Young Aragorn for reasons that I have laid out previously (>link<), but that's still really broad. Rolling with the assumption that the show will be Aragorn-centric for now, I thought it'd be fun to discuss some of the possible directions they could take this concept. I wrote the following two paragraphs for another forum but figured I'd share 'em here too. Smile

The most fruitful (and in my opinion likely to be chosen) period of Aragorn's life for a series like this would be between the ages of 20 and 49, when he "undertook his great journeys and errantries", including his service in Rohan and Gondor as "Thorongil". Aragorn was raised in Rivendell and Elrond was a surrogate father to him after his real father, Arathorn, was killed. Aragorn was 20 years old when Elrond told him about being the Heir of Isildur, and literally the next day he met and fell in love with Arwen. Elrond gave him a talking-to once he found out and said that Aragorn was too young to think about marriage or engagement to anyone, much less Arwen. So Aragorn set out to travel the world, contribute to the fight against Sauron, and learn in the process, eventually becoming "the most hardy of living Men". It was during this period that he met Gandalf and they traveled together at times, especially early in Aragorn's career. When he was 49, he met Arwen again in Lórien and after spending several months together they "plight[ed] their troth" (got engaged). Once Elrond found out about that, he told Aragorn that he had to become King of both Gondor and Arnor before he could marry Arwen. So Aragorn went back to his travels but would periodically return to Rivendell to see Arwen, and when he was away she "watched over him in thought". And so things went on until the time of LOTR.

I wouldn't be surprised if they condense the timeframe for this, but I hope that they will draw on the material in the Appendices for the show (primarily "The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen" in Appendix A, from which most of the above quotes come, although a few are from the Tale of Years in Appendix B). Most of the specifics of Aragorn's travels will have to be invented by the screenwriters, but him leading the forces of Gondor in a sneak attack on Umbar where they burn most of the Corsairs' fleet and Aragorn fights the Captain of the Haven one-on-one on the docks would be pretty cool to see IMO, as would his involvement in Gondorian politics and his interactions with young Denethor.

Two more quick points. First, yes, I am aware that this is not enough material for the show to be more than sanctioned fanfiction. My hope for this thread is to consider what forms that could take, not to criticize its mere existence. Razz And second, I know that there is a decent chance that the screenwriters will not incorporate even this small amount of material into their ideas, but will go off in completely their own direction. Speculation as to what that might entail is cool too.
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Re: Young Aragorn plot possibilities

Post by halfwise on Sun Nov 19, 2017 3:52 pm

Eldorion wrote: I wrote the following two paragraphs for another forum but figured I'd share 'em here too. Smile

You...you've been going to other forums? Shocked

We should have guessed. We had all the signs - can't believe we could have been so blind. Crying or Very sad Just ... feel so stupid....


The most fruitful (and in my opinion likely to be chosen) period of Aragorn's life for a series like this would be between the ages of 20 and 49, when he "undertook his great journeys and errantries", including his service in Rohan and Gondor as "Thorongil".

The thought of showing some of this earlier history of Gondor and Rohan with characters we already know (Denethor, Theoden) is actually really hopeful. It gives some breadth and scope to the project. We may even see Far Harad. This line of thought is actually perking me up quite a bit! pirat

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Re: Young Aragorn plot possibilities

Post by Eldorion on Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:40 pm

halfwise wrote:You...you've been going to other forums?  Shocked

We should have guessed.  We had all the signs - can't believe we could have been so blind.  Crying or Very sad  Just ... feel so stupid....

I'm sorry halfy. I didn't mean for you to find out this way.

The thought of showing some of this earlier history of Gondor and Rohan with characters we already know (Denethor, Theoden) is actually really hopeful.  It gives some breadth and scope to the project.  We may even see Far Harad.  This line of thought is actually perking me up quite a bit!  pirat

This is the part that I find most potentially interesting, yeah. Smile Getting to see Rhûn and Harad would be cool, though Gondor one is of my favorite settings in the book so I'd be happy to see them spend a good deal of time there (which I think is likely). The fiefs might finally make it onto the big small screen! Razz

Denethor in the book is one year older than Aragorn, and their closeness in age is one of the factors that causes tension when Aragorn becomes a trusted advisor to Ecthelion, Denethor's father. Book!Theoden was 17 years younger than Aragorn and the films reflect this with Aragorn's mention that Theoden was very young when he had fought in Rohan, although they diverged from the book in that Aragorn evidently used his real name during that time (since Theoden remembered it). There is some timeline weirdness, though.

The films removed the 17 year timeskip early in FOTR, but they kept Aragorn's age in LOTR the same as in the book, which meant he was born about 17 years earlier in the film timeline than in the books. This is also why he was already a Ranger at the time of The Hobbit films rather than being 10 years old. However, Theoden (and Theodred) both looked about 15-20 years younger than they were in the books, implying that they didn't adjust their ages in the same way. No reason to think the series will do the exact same thing, but if they do compress the timeline they could make other changes to characters' ages.
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Re: Young Aragorn plot possibilities

Post by TranshumanAngel on Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:52 pm

Ah, to see Pelargir, and southern Gondor! Yes, for me also Gondor presents a wealth of possibilities, most of which were unrealised in the films (granted we don't actually see much in the book either).
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Re: Young Aragorn plot possibilities

Post by Mrs Figg on Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:44 am

The casting for this is going to be interesting to say the least. As long as they don't ask any of the interchangeable 'Ryans' to do it, and find someone as close as possible to a younger Liv Tyler, which is nigh on impossible imo.

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Re: Young Aragorn plot possibilities

Post by halfwise on Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:38 am

Looks don't have to match at all.  My worry is they'll find some young guy for Aragorn who has too much a contemporary urban feel to him (Chris Pine affraid).  That's where they did well with Viggo, he was very comfortable with the boondocks.

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Re: Young Aragorn plot possibilities

Post by Elthir on Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:51 am

Lieutenant Daniel "Aragorn" Kaffee: "I want the Ring!"

Colonel Nathan "Gandalf" Jessup: "You can't handle the Ring!"

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Re: Young Aragorn plot possibilities

Post by Eldorion on Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:44 pm

I think that the inclusion of Arwen in any Young Aragorn series is inevitable. The big question there is whether they'll expand her role, and if so by how much. PJ and co. decided against having Arwen leave Rivendell to go to war in LOTR after the fan backlash against "Xenarwen" at Helm's Deep, but will Amazon want to have a Tauriel role? If they do (and I have no problem with them including prominent female roles), I hope they'll come up with an original character, either completely invented or taking a minor background name and coming up with a personality for her. But it would make sense for Arwen to appear in some form and they could try to do something similar to PJ's visual depiction of her "watching over" Aragorn from afar using mystical Elf shit.

As I mentioned in the other thread I think it's very likely that Legolas will be included and that it would, from a certain perspective, actually be a weird decision not to include him since the idea of him and Aragorn having a history has been seeded in so many people's minds by the movies. So even if the show tries to draw on the books in other places, I think Leggy will crop up. I hope that they don't stick him in any potential Rohan or Gondor stories since the fact that he was new to those areas (and especially that he had never seen the sea before) is fairly important to his character in LOTR. But depending on the structure of the show and/or how many seasons it runs, they could easily have him and Aragorn kicking around in Rhovanion or Rhûn together.

Interestingly, this would arguably pose a greater continuity issue vis-a-vis the films than it would with the books (where we know very little about Legolas' backstory). Orlando Bloom stated in the cast commentary to FOTR-EE that he played Legolas as ignorant of death before the Quest of the Ring, with Gandalf's fall in Moria being his first real brush with it. There's a fair bit of circumstantial evidence for this in the LOTR trilogy (see >here< for a rundown of some of it). I don't think the idea of Legolas being completely ignorant of death has a basis in the text, though the idea of Legolas being sheltered sort of dovetails with Tolkien's statement that Thranduil was left with long-term trauma after his father Oropher (Legolas' grandfather) was killed in the War of the Last Alliance (UT, The History of Galadriel and Celeborn, Appendix B). However, this was retconned in The Hobbit movies, and there's been nothing so far to indicate that Amazon will consider themselves bound to any of the PJ movies' original ideas.
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Re: Young Aragorn plot possibilities

Post by halfwise on Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:59 pm

"mystical elf shit" Razz

I see no textual backing for Legolas having previous doings with Aragorn. For Amazon to put that in just because there were hints of it in PJ's version would lame to the max. Some casual intersections would be ok, but if I see this turned into a travel buddy type of thing I'd be done.

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Re: Young Aragorn plot possibilities

Post by Eldorion on Mon Nov 20, 2017 2:04 pm

Hey, Galadriel objected to the term "Elf-magic", but she said nothing about "mystical Elf shit". Very Happy

I don't think that Legolas and Aragorn having a history together has any basis in the book, no. But I think Amazon is spending the big bucks in order to capitalize on name recognition and people's established affinity for Tolkien, and you can most effectively utilize that by including characters that people already know and like. Maybe I'm being too cynical but that's the approach most prequels and spin-offs take. Shrugging
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Re: Young Aragorn plot possibilities

Post by Mrs Figg on Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:42 pm

The problem Amazon has with such iconic roles as Gandalf, is that once people have seen Ian Mckellen in the role they pretty much cant unsee it. In a prequel he wouldn't look much different age wise so they couldn't do a much younger version, as they could with Aragorn, and it depends on how far before the Quest this prequest is. Also Elves probably look the same for millennia. Anyway Amazon is going to avoid being compared with PJs version at all costs, but yet try to feel like that world, probably New Line will help with the feel or atmosphere of the place. A wildly different feel would be odd. The filming for GoT may be finished by then in which case they may try to employ crew members who could handle a large tv production.

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Re: Young Aragorn plot possibilities

Post by Elthir on Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:16 am

I don't wanna be reminded of Jackson's films at all, and not just because... well... blech...

... but I want something new. I'm a fan of Lee and Howe for example, but I say let's move on with new visions for a new project.

To be honest I'm actually expecting more blech, and now with "grit and flesh" due to GOT popularity.

But there's always hope.

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Re: Young Aragorn plot possibilities

Post by halfwise on Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:30 am

I wouldn't be bothered by a new approach to the looks of many settings so long as the quality is there. They may want to rent the Minas Tirith bigature, and Edoras was pretty near perfect but no longer exists. Caras Galadrim needs a major make-over, as does Weathertop. Bree doesn't need to be redone but wouldn't suffer from a different version. I'd be delighted to see scaly as opposed to slimy orcs.

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Re: Young Aragorn plot possibilities

Post by Mrs Figg on Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:05 am

I hope they do try to follow Lee and Howe more closely, the more faerie the better.

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Re: Young Aragorn plot possibilities

Post by Forest Shepherd on Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:09 am

halfwise wrote:They may want to rent the Minas Tirith bigature
I don't see any visuals being carried over. In the same sense that an all-new cast would be brought in.

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Re: Young Aragorn plot possibilities

Post by halfwise on Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:49 am

Sets and cast are two very different issues.  You don't save money and time by rehiring the same cast.  And you can call in shots to Weta since they will be scene-setting and you can just create some stock footage for different weather conditions and swooping shots to tell the viewer you are in Minas Tirith and be done for the whole series.  I don't really see this as being worth it for anything except Minas Tirith.

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Re: Young Aragorn plot possibilities

Post by David H on Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:58 am

As much as I'd like to see real models used, my guess is they'll go entirely CGI. A computer model is just so much more efficient and easily adapted at all stages from early storyboarding to post production.

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Re: Young Aragorn plot possibilities

Post by Bluebottle on Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:34 pm

David H wrote:As much as I'd like to see real models used, my guess is they'll go entirely CGI. A computer model is just so much more efficient and easily adapted at all stages from early storyboarding to post production.  

You would think so, but then, look at the Hobbit. Neutral

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Re: Young Aragorn plot possibilities

Post by David H on Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:49 pm

Bluebottle wrote: but then, look at the Hobbit. Neutral

No, thank you! Suspect No

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Re: Young Aragorn plot possibilities

Post by halfwise on Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:04 pm

Well, the claim wasn't that CGI is better, but that it's easier. These days that's true. I'm okay with that for long shots, so long as the closeups have a real set. It's also a form of actor abuse to have too much CGI when set building is possible.

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Re: Young Aragorn plot possibilities

Post by Mrs Figg on Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:08 pm

the reason GoT looks so good is they mix real sets with cgi and it looks authentic.

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Re: Young Aragorn plot possibilities

Post by Eru on Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:13 pm

This thread has been blessed by Eru.

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Re: Young Aragorn plot possibilities

Post by Manwe Sulimo on Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:14 pm

Eru wrote:This thread has been blessed by Eru.

Praise be!
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