Plagiarism?

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Plagiarism?

Post by Tinuviel on Wed Aug 10, 2011 3:21 pm

Can there be plagiarism (if you keep a liberal mind about it) of LOTR? It was the first BIG fantasy story of the century, and I've noticed that there are several other fantasy stories that have extremely similar aspects of the books. For example, elves aren't really "Santa's Elves" anymore when described or thought of in othe fantasy novels, like in Eragon and others. What I'm saying is, is there such a thing as plagiarism with a trilogy this widely popular and timeless??

_________________
"I think that many confuse 'applicability' with 'allegory'; but the one resides in the freedom of the reader, and the other in the purposed domination of the author." -JRRT

avatar
Tinuviel
Finest Nose

Posts : 1937
Join date : 2011-02-15
Age : 22

Back to top Go down

Re: Plagiarism?

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Aug 10, 2011 5:11 pm

Mmm an interesting question Tin. Tolkien I would argue did not reinvent elves or much else, so much as reinstate them to a former glory before more modern times debased them from the high and noble to the dimutive and frivolous (a paricluarly Victorian sin they more than any popularised the notion of fairies and elves as little people living at the bottom of the garden).

_________________
Pure Publications is Reasonably Proud to Present the first ever Forumshire novel!

Gingerlocks and the Three McTyrants

- get your copy here for a limited period- free*

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2678c57O-0LUEROYml2NTFEUTQ

PDF Version (courtesy of Amarie) https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-1_FdCbmY2-dC1MbXFOVl9UNm8/view?usp=sharing

*Pure Publications reserves the right to track your usage of this publication, snoop on your home address, go through your bins and sell personal information on to the highest bidder.
avatar
Pettytyrant101
Crabbitmeister

Posts : 39068
Join date : 2011-02-14
Age : 45
Location : Scotshobbitland

Back to top Go down

Re: Plagiarism?

Post by Orwell on Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:52 pm

I think plagiarism is more to do with direct copying of other people's work. There about seven story ideas in existence (supposedly) and if writing a fantasy story of itself is plagiarism, then Tolkien was guilty too. Eru Bless Him!

_________________
"Skirts!" cried our respectable Master Odo. "Skirts! And they have the temerity to call them 'kilts'.... Eru darn my socks!"

From "The True Tale of the Un-magical Coal Scuttle."
avatar
Orwell
Dark Presence with Gilt Edge

Posts : 8548
Join date : 2011-05-24
Age : 98
Location : Ozhobbitstan

Back to top Go down

Re: Plagiarism?

Post by Tinuviel on Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:06 am

No, I don't think anyone directly plagiarizes Tolkien, but I feel like his ideas have been reused countless times in all fantasy novels, unless those ideas are universal to fantasy, but something tells me that they're not...

_________________
"I think that many confuse 'applicability' with 'allegory'; but the one resides in the freedom of the reader, and the other in the purposed domination of the author." -JRRT

avatar
Tinuviel
Finest Nose

Posts : 1937
Join date : 2011-02-15
Age : 22

Back to top Go down

Re: Plagiarism?

Post by Eldorion on Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:52 am

I'm sure that most popular authors have been plagiarized, but I also think that publishing companies are smart enough not to publish anything that fits the legal definition of plagiarism since otherwise they'd have their asses sued off in court. Razz There are plenty of authors that copy major elements and themes of Tolkien's work wholesale into their own: Christopher Paolini's Eragon is a prime example. Paolini's debut novel was essentially the story of Star Wars (itself a thinly veiled derivation of The Hidden Fortress) in a world that was The Lord of the Rings plus Dragonriders of Pern. The sequels (the fourth and final book in the cycle comes out this November) have become somewhat more original, though whether this is a good or a bad thing is unclear. Laughing I don't think any of Paolini's books have fit the legal definition of plagiarism, though plenty of people frown upon his work as a poor copy of better writers. For my part, I was a huge fan of Paolini starting when I was eight or nine, and while my enthusiasm for his work has cooled considerably since and I can't say he's a terribly good author, I do have a measure of nostalgia for his books and find the first one to be fun in an airport novel way.
avatar
Eldorion
He Who Seeks To Become a Master at Ye Old Temple In Merry Land... of Oz, or so I presume.

Posts : 22362
Join date : 2011-02-13
Age : 22
Location : Maryland, United States

http://nolondil.tumblr.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: Plagiarism?

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:55 am

Sword of Shannara by Terry Brooks was the most blatant rip off of LotR I ever read.

_________________
Pure Publications is Reasonably Proud to Present the first ever Forumshire novel!

Gingerlocks and the Three McTyrants

- get your copy here for a limited period- free*

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2678c57O-0LUEROYml2NTFEUTQ

PDF Version (courtesy of Amarie) https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-1_FdCbmY2-dC1MbXFOVl9UNm8/view?usp=sharing

*Pure Publications reserves the right to track your usage of this publication, snoop on your home address, go through your bins and sell personal information on to the highest bidder.
avatar
Pettytyrant101
Crabbitmeister

Posts : 39068
Join date : 2011-02-14
Age : 45
Location : Scotshobbitland

Back to top Go down

Re: Plagiarism?

Post by Eldorion on Thu Aug 11, 2011 3:31 am

Yeah, I heard that was really bad. Didn't the subsequent Shannara books get better and more original, though?
avatar
Eldorion
He Who Seeks To Become a Master at Ye Old Temple In Merry Land... of Oz, or so I presume.

Posts : 22362
Join date : 2011-02-13
Age : 22
Location : Maryland, United States

http://nolondil.tumblr.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: Plagiarism?

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Thu Aug 11, 2011 3:34 am

I heard they did too but I found Sword such a laughably poor rip of FotR in particular that I never read the rest.

_________________
Pure Publications is Reasonably Proud to Present the first ever Forumshire novel!

Gingerlocks and the Three McTyrants

- get your copy here for a limited period- free*

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2678c57O-0LUEROYml2NTFEUTQ

PDF Version (courtesy of Amarie) https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-1_FdCbmY2-dC1MbXFOVl9UNm8/view?usp=sharing

*Pure Publications reserves the right to track your usage of this publication, snoop on your home address, go through your bins and sell personal information on to the highest bidder.
avatar
Pettytyrant101
Crabbitmeister

Posts : 39068
Join date : 2011-02-14
Age : 45
Location : Scotshobbitland

Back to top Go down

Re: Plagiarism?

Post by chris63 on Thu Aug 11, 2011 4:44 am

Eldorion wrote:Yeah, I heard that was really bad. Didn't the subsequent Shannara books get better and more original, though?

I agree they did get better, but the only reason i read them in the first place was because they were similar.
The first book the one Petty mentioned i think had the battle of the 5 army's in it down to a tee.
Harry Potters the same, its very similar to David Eddings The Belgariad.
avatar
chris63
Adventurer

Posts : 7153
Join date : 2011-07-04
Location : Perth, Australia

Back to top Go down

Re: Plagiarism?

Post by Tinuviel on Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:00 am

See, I brought this up because I'm finding that the story I'm writing is drifting toward the Silmarillion a bit Shocked But all creation stories are similar, right? And my biggest worry is the elven language. How does one go about making one of those without stepping on Tolkien's toes???? ((Hehe! I rhymed Laughing )))

_________________
"I think that many confuse 'applicability' with 'allegory'; but the one resides in the freedom of the reader, and the other in the purposed domination of the author." -JRRT

avatar
Tinuviel
Finest Nose

Posts : 1937
Join date : 2011-02-15
Age : 22

Back to top Go down

Re: Plagiarism?

Post by Baingil on Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:06 am

Tinuviel wrote:And my biggest worry is the elven language. How does one go about making one of those without stepping on Tolkien's toes???? ((Hehe! I rhymed Laughing )))

This might help.
avatar
Baingil
Guest of Eagles

Posts : 478
Join date : 2011-02-17
Age : 24
Location : Planet Earth

Back to top Go down

Re: Plagiarism?

Post by chris63 on Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:08 am

Must be hard to come up with original ideas these days, films books, music. Everything has been done to death.

_________________
avatar
chris63
Adventurer

Posts : 7153
Join date : 2011-07-04
Location : Perth, Australia

Back to top Go down

Re: Plagiarism?

Post by Orwell on Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:25 am

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Sword of Shannara by Terry Brooks was the most blatant rip off of LotR I ever read.

I liked it at the time, but read it only once and that was it. Haven't read his others. Inspiration not plagiarism in my opinion.

_________________
"Skirts!" cried our respectable Master Odo. "Skirts! And they have the temerity to call them 'kilts'.... Eru darn my socks!"

From "The True Tale of the Un-magical Coal Scuttle."
avatar
Orwell
Dark Presence with Gilt Edge

Posts : 8548
Join date : 2011-05-24
Age : 98
Location : Ozhobbitstan

Back to top Go down

Re: Plagiarism?

Post by Orwell on Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:31 am

chris63 wrote:Must be hard to come up with original ideas these days, films books, music.

And I, for one, don't plan to do it! Original ideas are hard to find (and probably don't exist), "inspiration" based on the works of others, on the other hand, is much easier; and a compliment to those who went before us; and should not one always respect those who came before!

Tinuviel, write your story and worry about the lawsuit when you're rich and famous. I mean, if you end up having to pay the original author three quarters of the eight zillion you make, well you'll just have to bear it! Very Happy

_________________
"Skirts!" cried our respectable Master Odo. "Skirts! And they have the temerity to call them 'kilts'.... Eru darn my socks!"

From "The True Tale of the Un-magical Coal Scuttle."
avatar
Orwell
Dark Presence with Gilt Edge

Posts : 8548
Join date : 2011-05-24
Age : 98
Location : Ozhobbitstan

Back to top Go down

Re: Plagiarism?

Post by Tinuviel on Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:35 am

Hopefully it will be that good Orwell!


And THANK YOU SO MUCH BAINGIL!!!!!!!! cheers That helps me tons!!!!!

_________________
"I think that many confuse 'applicability' with 'allegory'; but the one resides in the freedom of the reader, and the other in the purposed domination of the author." -JRRT

avatar
Tinuviel
Finest Nose

Posts : 1937
Join date : 2011-02-15
Age : 22

Back to top Go down

Re: Plagiarism?

Post by Baingil on Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:41 am

You're welcome. Very Happy Rather complicated but it can be helpful if you want to create a working language. Or play around.
avatar
Baingil
Guest of Eagles

Posts : 478
Join date : 2011-02-17
Age : 24
Location : Planet Earth

Back to top Go down

Re: Plagiarism?

Post by Orwell on Fri Aug 12, 2011 4:20 am

Tinuviel wrote:Hopefully it will be that good Orwell!

If it is, I'll not be too embarrassed to make a marriage proposal. Very Happy

_________________
"Skirts!" cried our respectable Master Odo. "Skirts! And they have the temerity to call them 'kilts'.... Eru darn my socks!"

From "The True Tale of the Un-magical Coal Scuttle."
avatar
Orwell
Dark Presence with Gilt Edge

Posts : 8548
Join date : 2011-05-24
Age : 98
Location : Ozhobbitstan

Back to top Go down

Re: Plagiarism?

Post by Orwell on Fri Aug 12, 2011 4:21 am

Baingil wrote:You're welcome. Very Happy Rather complicated but it can be helpful if you want to create a working language. Or play around.

Providing you girls "mind your language" while you're doing it! Very Happy

_________________
"Skirts!" cried our respectable Master Odo. "Skirts! And they have the temerity to call them 'kilts'.... Eru darn my socks!"

From "The True Tale of the Un-magical Coal Scuttle."
avatar
Orwell
Dark Presence with Gilt Edge

Posts : 8548
Join date : 2011-05-24
Age : 98
Location : Ozhobbitstan

Back to top Go down

Re: Plagiarism?

Post by Orwell on Mon Sep 08, 2014 11:32 pm

.... and then Baingil disappeared... forever... Shocked

_________________
"Skirts!" cried our respectable Master Odo. "Skirts! And they have the temerity to call them 'kilts'.... Eru darn my socks!"

From "The True Tale of the Un-magical Coal Scuttle."
avatar
Orwell
Dark Presence with Gilt Edge

Posts : 8548
Join date : 2011-05-24
Age : 98
Location : Ozhobbitstan

Back to top Go down

Re: Plagiarism?

Post by halfwise on Mon Sep 08, 2014 11:57 pm

I always loved her avatar...

_________________
Halfwise, son of Halfwit. Brother of Nitwit, son of Halfwit. Half brother of Figwit.
Then it gets complicated...
avatar
halfwise
Quintessence of Burrahobbitry

Posts : 12557
Join date : 2012-02-01
Location : rustic broom closet in farthing of Manhattan

Back to top Go down

Re: Plagiarism?

Post by Orwell on Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:20 am

We all did, Halfy -- we all did... Sad

_________________
"Skirts!" cried our respectable Master Odo. "Skirts! And they have the temerity to call them 'kilts'.... Eru darn my socks!"

From "The True Tale of the Un-magical Coal Scuttle."
avatar
Orwell
Dark Presence with Gilt Edge

Posts : 8548
Join date : 2011-05-24
Age : 98
Location : Ozhobbitstan

Back to top Go down

Re: Plagiarism?

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Tue Sep 09, 2014 5:29 pm

{{{{{She is under the shoe mountain behind the Admin Tower, so the NotP say.}}}}}

_________________
Pure Publications is Reasonably Proud to Present the first ever Forumshire novel!

Gingerlocks and the Three McTyrants

- get your copy here for a limited period- free*

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2678c57O-0LUEROYml2NTFEUTQ

PDF Version (courtesy of Amarie) https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-1_FdCbmY2-dC1MbXFOVl9UNm8/view?usp=sharing

*Pure Publications reserves the right to track your usage of this publication, snoop on your home address, go through your bins and sell personal information on to the highest bidder.
avatar
Pettytyrant101
Crabbitmeister

Posts : 39068
Join date : 2011-02-14
Age : 45
Location : Scotshobbitland

Back to top Go down

Re: Plagiarism?

Post by Eldorion on Wed Sep 10, 2014 12:40 am

She's still around, just not on here. Still has the same avatar, too.
avatar
Eldorion
He Who Seeks To Become a Master at Ye Old Temple In Merry Land... of Oz, or so I presume.

Posts : 22362
Join date : 2011-02-13
Age : 22
Location : Maryland, United States

http://nolondil.tumblr.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: Plagiarism?

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Sep 10, 2014 2:34 am

{{Under the shoes}}}}

_________________
Pure Publications is Reasonably Proud to Present the first ever Forumshire novel!

Gingerlocks and the Three McTyrants

- get your copy here for a limited period- free*

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2678c57O-0LUEROYml2NTFEUTQ

PDF Version (courtesy of Amarie) https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-1_FdCbmY2-dC1MbXFOVl9UNm8/view?usp=sharing

*Pure Publications reserves the right to track your usage of this publication, snoop on your home address, go through your bins and sell personal information on to the highest bidder.
avatar
Pettytyrant101
Crabbitmeister

Posts : 39068
Join date : 2011-02-14
Age : 45
Location : Scotshobbitland

Back to top Go down

Re: Plagiarism?

Post by Tinuviel on Thu Sep 11, 2014 12:45 am

Ha! I'm glad this thread was spammily resurrected! I've been wanting to use that site recently!

_________________
"I think that many confuse 'applicability' with 'allegory'; but the one resides in the freedom of the reader, and the other in the purposed domination of the author." -JRRT

avatar
Tinuviel
Finest Nose

Posts : 1937
Join date : 2011-02-15
Age : 22

Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum