Oddities, curiousities and strangness in history

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Re: Oddities, curiousities and strangness in history

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Nov 12, 2014 4:40 am

American I assume? (And not just from the names but the sentiment that the best route to equality is giving everyone the power to murder each other Rolling Eyes )

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Re: Oddities, curiousities and strangness in history

Post by Eldorion on Wed Nov 12, 2014 4:46 am

Of course. USA

Unsurprisingly (and despite the positive association with Lincoln in that quote), white gun advocates have backtracked on this line of thought when it gets picked up on by black people.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/09/the-secret-history-of-guns/308608/
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Re: Oddities, curiousities and strangness in history

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Nov 12, 2014 4:59 am

You know I have never actually read the exact wording which that article gives as-

“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

That does not in any way, shape or form strike me as advocating everyone has a right to carry a gun about. Rather it advocates in a time with a need for state militia the people should have arms in order to form said militia at times of need. Not just walk about tooled up all the time, especially outwith being in a militia.

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Re: Oddities, curiousities and strangness in history

Post by Eldorion on Wed Nov 12, 2014 5:12 am

Yeah, that's how a lot of people interpret it. But the Supreme Court doesn't agree.
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Re: Oddities, curiousities and strangness in history

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Nov 12, 2014 5:17 am

Are they only interpreting the last 14 words, as otherwise I cant see how they can come to any other interpretation? scratch

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Re: Oddities, curiousities and strangness in history

Post by Eldorion on Wed Nov 12, 2014 5:27 am

You can try to make sense of it with the Wikipedia page, particularly the "Decision" section.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Heller
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Re: Oddities, curiousities and strangness in history

Post by Forest Shepherd on Wed Nov 12, 2014 6:30 am

Well, to my mind it sounds like the claim that a well-regulated Militia is necessary for the safety of a free state implies that the people of that state need to know how to work guns (and have them too, I guess) in order to function well in that militia if it ever gets formed. So as to make sure people know how to work guns the lawmakers aren't allowed to make laws banning people from learning how to work (and own) guns.

Why are we talking about toting weaponry about though? Was that mentioned in that article Eldo posted which I did not read?
I think it's reasonable to assume that people can learn to use and keep their guns while at home and don't need to bring them about with them. Unless they're driving to a shooting range or going hunting or something.

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Re: Oddities, curiousities and strangness in history

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Nov 12, 2014 6:43 am

Why are we talking about toting weaponry about though? - Forest

Because at least from outside the US that seems to be the general attitude to guns there. Don't you have states which allow the general public to carry weapons, and concealed weapons?

But the thing I find weirdest about it is the seeming contradiction at the heart of America.
Its a country which likes to tout itself as the worlds greatest democracy, a leading light in democracy in fact and freedom.

Yet you have so little confidence and belief in your democratic processes and government that you feel you have to arm yourself against some potential perceived threat from your own government.

If you want to change the country thats what the ballot box is for- the whole point of democracy is that you can hold government to account and even change government without the need to resort to violence at all.

And I mean what is the result of US guns laws in practice? A couple of high school massacres a year and a massive number of gang shootings? Is that worth it?

Somehow I dont think if I lived in America all those guns would make me feel safer. Quite the opposite in fact. I like living in a country where even the police dont have guns outside of a specialist highly trained firearms units that are only deployed in circumstances that warrant an armed response.

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Re: Oddities, curiousities and strangness in history

Post by David H on Wed Nov 12, 2014 7:00 am

Petty wrote:Its a country which likes to tout itself as the worlds greatest democracy, a leading light in democracy in fact and freedom.

That's greatest by volume, you understand. Nod
Like cheap box wine, it may not be the highest quality, but it it comes in a big container and it gets the job done. Very Happy

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Re: Oddities, curiousities and strangness in history

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Nov 12, 2014 7:04 am

Laughing

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Re: Oddities, curiousities and strangness in history

Post by Eldorion on Wed Nov 12, 2014 3:07 pm

What's with this "world's greatest democracy" bullshit? We're better than ANY country, democracy or no. USA
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Re: Oddities, curiousities and strangness in history

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Nov 12, 2014 3:17 pm

Oh yes, I forgot about American Exceptionalism.
Actually I think the rest of the world probably think that's true- America is exceptional, ad possibly special. Wink

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Re: Oddities, curiousities and strangness in history

Post by halfwise on Wed Nov 12, 2014 8:39 pm

Doh ....I can spell exsepshional. But it's easier to spell "gun".

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Re: Oddities, curiousities and strangness in history

Post by Eldorion on Wed Nov 12, 2014 9:03 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Oh yes, I forgot about American Exceptionalism.
Actually I think the rest of the world probably think that's true- America is exceptional, ad possibly special. Wink

If the US is drunk on its own power, then the UK is still hungover. Nod
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Re: Oddities, curiousities and strangness in history

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Nov 12, 2014 9:12 pm

then the UK is still hungover.- Eldo

How dare you! I remain far to drunk for any sort of hangover! drunken (though when China and Russia take over backed by India I think the US hangover will be epic!)

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Re: Oddities, curiousities and strangness in history

Post by Eldorion on Wed Nov 12, 2014 9:17 pm

Yeah, we're not gonna take our inevitable eclipse well. The only possible silver lining is that we've been so paranoid about being overtaken (by Russia, by Japan, by Europe, by China, etc.) that when it does actually happen, we'll be at least a little bit prepared psychologically. A little bit.
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Re: Oddities, curiousities and strangness in history

Post by halfwise on Wed Nov 12, 2014 9:21 pm

Eldorion wrote:
Pettytyrant101 wrote:Oh yes, I forgot about American Exceptionalism.
Actually I think the rest of the world probably think that's true- America is exceptional, ad possibly special. Wink

If the US is drunk on its own power, then the UK is still hungover. Nod

She-BANG!

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Re: Oddities, curiousities and strangness in history

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Nov 12, 2014 9:23 pm

She-BANG!- halfy

Typical American, everything needs an explosion Very Happy

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Re: Oddities, curiousities and strangness in history

Post by David H on Wed Nov 12, 2014 9:56 pm

Eldorion wrote:Yeah, we're not gonna take our inevitable eclipse well.  The only possible silver lining is that we've been so paranoid about being overtaken (by Russia, by Japan, by Europe, by China, etc.) that when it does actually happen, we'll be at least a little bit prepared psychologically.  A little bit.

Maybe, but I'm betting we don't even notice. Denial is a powerful tool. Do you think the Roman Empire was aware of it's own "decline and fall"?

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Re: Oddities, curiousities and strangness in history

Post by Mrs Figg on Wed Nov 12, 2014 10:28 pm

I think they noticed the Barbarians.

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Re: Oddities, curiousities and strangness in history

Post by halfwise on Wed Nov 12, 2014 10:31 pm

I get this image of a bunch of Romans being all cultured and contentedly orgying in their villa,  when one looks out the window and thinks "who's all these shaggy people running past?"

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Re: Oddities, curiousities and strangness in history

Post by azriel on Wed Nov 12, 2014 10:52 pm


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Re: Oddities, curiousities and strangness in history

Post by Mrs Figg on Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:04 pm

halfwise wrote:I get this image of a bunch of Romans being all cultured and contentedly orgying in their villa,  when one looks out the window and thinks "who's all these shaggy people running past?"

Laughing or looking out their Windows saying ''look at that berk with the Oliphaunts, comes all this way for a pizza then just goes straight back home''

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Re: Oddities, curiousities and strangness in history

Post by David H on Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:14 pm

Mrs Figg wrote:I think they noticed the Barbarians.

You mean the illegal immigrants, right?

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Re: Oddities, curiousities and strangness in history

Post by David H on Thu Nov 13, 2014 12:22 am

Hey, what about the hoards of armed drug cartel operatives who move through America at will. Suspect
Maybe we were invaded a couple decades ago! Shocked
Maybe we've already fallen and They're just not telling us! No
It's all a conspiracy! IT'S ALL A CONSPIRACY!!! affraid

[[[now where's my gun? scratch Mad ]]]

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