Is God evil - or just lazy?

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Re: Is God evil - or just lazy?

Post by Orwell on Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:58 am

Pettytyrant101 wrote:I buy it as myth fine- just not in anyway a likely account of how the life on this planet came about. Its clearly in the face of the scientific explanation a simple story by comparison. That churches world wide still preach it as absolute truth, that people try to get it taught in schools as actual history, that some people even kill for this belief is bonkers however.

Surely man only made medicine to reduce the suffering casued by the choices God made when He punished Adam and Eve for talking to the most evil thing in creation which He let live in the same Garden as them? You'd think at least a warning would have been in line "If you see a talking snake don't listen to him, he's a right liar-don't listen to a word he says. I made him on an off day."

It seems to me the serpent in the Genesis tale is the good guy. God wants humans as slaves "to till the earth" and make him wine. He doesnt want us to have knwledge or understanding- we get that becasue the serpent tells us God is not being upfront. And once humans attain knowledge God punishes us for all eternity for it.

Now its not suprising this is how the story seems given Gensis is clearly based on the much older Summerian creation story. In which the serpent is Enki saviour of mankind, represented by a serpent which in old religions represents wisdom, knowledge and medicine. God, El is the bad guy of the piece.

I suspect humans are in rebellion against God - and that God planned it that way. Indeed, God might like us questioning him. Agreeing about everything leaves little room for growth - though I'm probably taking a "God" as "Evolution" tack now...

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Re: Is God evil - or just lazy?

Post by Lorient Avandi on Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:04 am

Again god planned to have satan corrupt eve, Satan thought he was clever and tricked god when he hadn't. God needed them to eat the fruit so they could populate the earth and give the rest of us patient souls bodies.
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Re: Is God evil - or just lazy?

Post by Orwell on Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:10 am

Lorient Avandi wrote:Again god planned to have satan corrupt eve, Satan thought he was clever and tricked god when he hadn't. God needed them to eat the fruit so they could populate the earth and give the rest of us patient souls bodies.

So let me see. God created Satan so that Satan could think he had out thought God, but he hadn't because God was God and God knows everything, and Satan was just Satan, who just thinks he knows everything.... confused

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Re: Is God evil - or just lazy?

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:13 am

Why did God not just say to Adam and Eve- "see that tree there- you need to eat the apples on it." Why the whole making evil serpent ruse? Thats mad. In fact if He's God why make the apples at all, why not start with the equivelent of the apple already in Adam and Eve then they wouldnt have had to go along with this bizarre charade at all?

edit- and if He planned it why does He punish Adam and Eve for doing what He wanted them to in the first place. Women don't get pain in childbirth for all eternity as a reward here- its a punishment- and it doesn't come from gaining knowledge by eating the apple- God dishes it out afterwards as a clear seperate punishment.

Sorry Lorient but your account does not seem to make any sense to me. I am begining to think Orwell if there is a God boredom is a better explanation than those so far voiced.


Last edited by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:17 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Is God evil - or just lazy?

Post by Lorient Avandi on Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:15 am

Maybe he needed Satan to think he had won. I don't know everything
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Re: Is God evil - or just lazy?

Post by Orwell on Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:15 am

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Why did God not just say to Adam and Eve- "see that tree there- you need to eat the apples on it." Why the whole making evil serpent ruse? Thats mad. In fact if He's God why make the apples at all, why not start with the equivelent of the apple already in Adam and Eve then they wouldnt have had to go along with this bizarre charade at all?

I feel sorry for God. He Made the Universe to stave of boredom, I've heard. Lonely chap. My heart goes out.

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Re: Is God evil - or just lazy?

Post by Orwell on Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:17 am

Lorient Avandi wrote:Maybe he needed Satan to think he had won. I don't know everything

Nor do I. Your opinions are as valid as either Petty's or mine as I see it, Lorient (probably more than Petty's). That's all we have here - opinions.

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Re: Is God evil - or just lazy?

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:25 am

Nor do we know everything Lorient. But humans are curious creatures and is our place to question it seems for whatever reason. Like most people I like the idea of a heaven to go to and rewards for doing the right thing when alive. I'd also like Santa Claus and Middle-Earth to be true too. But they seem to me just stories. (In fact LotR's is far more detailed and accountable than the Bible is in many ways). But when you actually look at what is being proposed in detail it starts to look silly. And when you begin to study the history of these works, their earlier versions and development, what was changed and what was retained it is hard not to see them as just humans of the time, muddling through, trying to work it out and trying to ('casue they are humans) use it to create new rules for new societies and ideas about living together, this was th etime of the agricultural revelution, the first towns and cities. The Bible and the earlier Babylonian and Summerian version of the story fit perfectly with the time in which they were written and reflected their thinking. To still hold them up as absolute truths when probably a lay person today has more basic understanding about the planet than the writers did is bizarre to me.

edit add- just noticed your impertinent post Orwell! Cheek. I will have you know I refuse to have any of my opinions validated, just ruins them.

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Re: Is God evil - or just lazy?

Post by Tinuviel on Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:37 am

No one form of christianity has it right. I just learn what I can and believe what I like or what seems right.

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Re: Is God evil - or just lazy?

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:53 am

That sounds like a wise plan Tin so long as you don't restrict yourself in what you might learn. To quote Billy Connelly- "Never trust a people who only have one book."

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Re: Is God evil - or just lazy?

Post by Orwell on Wed Aug 24, 2011 3:19 am

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Nor do we know everything Lorient. But humans are curious creatures and is our place to question it seems for whatever reason. Like most people I like the idea of a heaven to go to and rewards for doing the right thing when alive. I'd also like Santa Claus and Middle-Earth to be true too. But they seem to me just stories. (In fact LotR's is far more detailed and accountable than the Bible is in many ways). But when you actually look at what is being proposed in detail it starts to look silly. And when you begin to study the history of these works, their earlier versions and development, what was changed and what was retained it is hard not to see them as just humans of the time, muddling through, trying to work it out and trying to ('casue they are humans) use it to create new rules for new societies and ideas about living together, this was th etime of the agricultural revelution, the first towns and cities. The Bible and the earlier Babylonian and Summerian version of the story fit perfectly with the time in which they were written and reflected their thinking. To still hold them up as absolute truths when probably a lay person today has more basic understanding about the planet than the writers did is bizarre to me.

edit add- just noticed your impertinent post Orwell! Cheek. I will have you know I refuse to have any of my opinions validated, just ruins them.

Just like you, Petty, one paragraph, very reasoned, sort of, the next paragraph, so accurate...Hang on, that was almost a compliment! Shocked

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Re: Is God evil - or just lazy?

Post by Orwell on Wed Aug 24, 2011 3:20 am

Tinuviel wrote:No one form of christianity has it right. I just learn what I can and believe what I like or what seems right.

Though the Muslims have hit the nail on the head with their Sharia Law.

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Re: Is God evil - or just lazy?

Post by Lorient Avandi on Wed Aug 24, 2011 4:26 am

Beg to differ. Im not just saying this because I'm a member but I can testify that I believe that The Church if Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is the restored church of Jesus Christ and god. I believe that there is a prophet on this earth today and that The Book of Mormon is another true testament of Jesus Christ. You guys should read it sometime. It was written by prophets hundreds of years ago who lived in the Americas before, during, and after the time of Christ. It was later passed to Joseph Smith in the 1800s

who translated it and who I believe was a true prophet of god.
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Re: Is God evil - or just lazy?

Post by Lorient Avandi on Wed Aug 24, 2011 4:45 am

I know you guys probably think I'm some religious zealot freak for posting that, but I felt I had to.
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Re: Is God evil - or just lazy?

Post by Orwell on Wed Aug 24, 2011 4:57 am

Lorient Avandi wrote:I know you guys probably think I'm some religious zealot freak for posting that, but I felt I had to.

Of course, and we love you for doing it!

Excuse me, I've just uncovered some ancient tablets in the back yard. I mean to dig them out, translate them, and then let God have them back - I'm not letting any of you guys touch them! Their sacred!

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Re: Is God evil - or just lazy?

Post by Lorient Avandi on Wed Aug 24, 2011 4:59 am

HahA you're funny.
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Re: Is God evil - or just lazy?

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:21 am

OOh I have a top hat somewhere Orwell you can keep them in.

Lorient you must of course believe what you choose to believe.I have no idea if you have been raised in this religion, or have come to it through your own undrstanding- but hey whatever works for you.
As someone who finds much of the content of the original Bible questionable, unlikely or even at times preospertous I am hardly likely to responsed to an eccentric off shoot of it from nearly two thousand years later whose inception seems even more dubious that usual. Sorry.
You can always try to persuade me Lorient through debate and reason why I am wrong about that. Other viewpoints is what make a forum interesting, after all I'd learn nothing if everyone agreed with me (although they should!)


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Re: Is God evil - or just lazy?

Post by Orwell on Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:24 am

Lorient Avandi wrote:HahA you're funny.

Thank you for the compliment. Very Happy

Faith is at the heart of all these arguments. You believe in the God you find in the Bible and the Book of Mormon. Good.

Now, (at the risk of sounding pompous or even preachy) I see it as an act of "faith" to believe in God the Unknowable, if I might put it that way. It's another "leap" of faith, however, to believe in the Holy Word, in the Bible or Book of Mormon.

At the heart of existene must surely be the question, "Why anything?"

"Because of God the Unknowable" might be the answer to that question. I can't dispute it. It's faith if I do I don't.

But "God" the "Knowable" is the problem. And here Books come in. Every religion has their version and their Book or Books about what God thinks.

I could write a Book and attract followers, you know. All I have to do is say, "God dictated this Book to me." And why not me? Don't I like telling other people how to live as happily as the next man (or woman). And if God agrees with me, all the better. This is the start of Religious Difference between people. Who's right though?

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Re: Is God evil - or just lazy?

Post by Orwell on Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:28 am

Pettytyrant101 wrote:OOh I have a top hat somewhere Orwell you can keep them in.

Lorient you must of course believe what you choose to believe.I have no idea if you have been raised in this religion, or have come to it through your own undrstanding- but hey whatever works for you.
As someone who finds much of the content of the original Bible questionable, unlikely or even at times preospertous I am hardly likely to responsed to an eccentric off shoot of it from nearly two thousand years later whose inception seems even more dubious that usual. Sorry.
You can always try to persuade me Lorient through debate and reason why I am wrong about that. Other viewpoints is what make a forum interesting, after all I'd learn nothing if everyone agreed with me (although they should!)


A Religion out of a Top Hat. Novel! And so, in this age of Fashion, a true Religion, therefore, at last?

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Re: Is God evil - or just lazy?

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:29 am

"Don't I like telling other people how to live"- Orwell

You said it! Wink But not as much as Odo who probably has a crown somewhere and a sash with that emblazoned across it as his motto.

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Re: Is God evil - or just lazy?

Post by Orwell on Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:32 am

Pettytyrant101 wrote:"Don't I like telling other people how to live"- Orwell

You said it! Wink But not as much as Odo who probably has a crown somewhere and a sash with that emblazoned across it as his motto.

Since when did you take over baiting people in Forumshire! Mad

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Re: Is God evil - or just lazy?

Post by Eldorion on Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:32 am

Wow, I missed a lot while I was at work. Laughing Good to see this thread carrying on!

Lorient Avandi wrote:Think about this, if the world was this Perfect place you want it to be, we wouldnt have free will. Lucifer proposed doing just what you want god to do make things "perfect" he wanted to make everyone do the right thing and have a perfect world. That may sound good but it is pretty cruel. Think of this: if the world was "perfect" there would be no theifs, murderers or rapists, but you wouldn't get to do what you want. There would be no books or movies with any violence at all, no swearing, vulgar comments, no drinking, smoking, no gays, etc. Most of the things we do, especially for fun, are usually bad in some way.

Now that's a slippery slope fallacy if I've ever seen one! Shocked How does one go from "no thieves, murderers, or rapists" to censoring entertainment, prohibiting profanity and alcohol, and criminalizing homosexuality. Besides, no one has said that they want God to make the world perfect; it's not like natural disasters and violent crimes are the only things wrong with the world. Rolling Eyes

Also, I take issue with the implication from your post that homosexuality is one of those things that is "usually bad in some way". Evil or Very Mad
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Re: Is God evil - or just lazy?

Post by Orwell on Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:35 am

Eldorion wrote:Wow, I missed a lot while I was at work. Laughing Good to see this thread carrying on!

Lorient Avandi wrote:Think about this, if the world was this Perfect place you want it to be, we wouldnt have free will. Lucifer proposed doing just what you want god to do make things "perfect" he wanted to make everyone do the right thing and have a perfect world. That may sound good but it is pretty cruel. Think of this: if the world was "perfect" there would be no theifs, murderers or rapists, but you wouldn't get to do what you want. There would be no books or movies with any violence at all, no swearing, vulgar comments, no drinking, smoking, no gays, etc. Most of the things we do, especially for fun, are usually bad in some way.

Now that's a slippery slope fallacy if I've ever seen one! Shocked How does one go from "no thieves, murderers, or rapists" to censoring entertainment, prohibiting profanity and alcohol, and criminalizing homosexuality. Besides, no one has said that they want God to make the world perfect; it's not like natural disasters and violent crimes are the only things wrong with the world. Rolling Eyes

Also, I take issue with the implication from your post that homosexuality is one of those things that is "usually bad in some way". Evil or Very Mad

What does Baingil think of your homosexuality, Eldo? Shocked

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Re: Is God evil - or just lazy?

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:39 am

Glad you picked up on that point Eldo- I meant to then forgot (that'll be the buckie).

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Re: Is God evil - or just lazy?

Post by Eldorion on Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:40 am

Lorient Avandi wrote:I believe that there is a prophet on this earth today and that The Book of Mormon is another true testament of Jesus Christ.

I thought The Book of Mormon was a musical from the creators of South Park!? Shocked

It was written by prophets hundreds of years ago who lived in the Americas before, during, and after the time of Christ. It was later passed to Joseph Smith in the 1800s who translated it and who I believe was a true prophet of god.

Why is there no archaeological evidence of civilizations descended from the Lost Tribes of Israel ever existing in North America, then? Question
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