Canon

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Re: Canon

Post by Elthir on Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:47 pm

By the way, it would be interesting to compile just how much about the First Age Tolkien himself published. I have the version of Robert Foster's Guide written before the constructed Silmarillion was published, but it would take a bit of wading through to note everything that way.

In this version Foster notes that Melian was of the Valar. Is he 'wrong'? Wink
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Re: Canon

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:53 pm

Well according to my very ancient edition of The Tolkien Companion (can't seem to find my Foster Guide, wonder if I lent it to someone? Suspect ) Melian was 'a Lady of the Valar who wedded Thingol.....it is the only (union) between a Vala and a member of a lesser race.'
It ends by noting, ' the fate of Melian and Thingol is not recorded in the records presently available.'

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Re: Canon

Post by Orwell on Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:36 pm

I assume they reside in yet another Secret Elvish Kingdom, one not even the Prof knew about. Cool idea, really.

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Re: Canon

Post by Ally on Fri Sep 23, 2011 6:00 pm

Orwell wrote:I assume they reside in yet another Secret Elvish Kingdom, one not even the Prof knew about. Cool idea, really.

Maybe this one could be under the sea, near a octopus's garden in the shade...

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Re: Canon

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:20 pm

Does Ringo have to be there?

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Re: Canon

Post by Orwell on Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:57 pm

He's still living in Skattykatzenfjord the last time I heard.

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Re: Canon

Post by Orwell on Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:50 pm

True. Very Happy

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Re: Canon

Post by Orwell on Sun Sep 14, 2014 3:59 am

Do octupuses even have gardens? scratch

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Re: Canon

Post by Forest Shepherd on Sun Sep 14, 2014 6:37 am

Good debate so far guys!

Here's some helpful additions from me to the flow of things.

Tsar cannon:


Water cannon: (And yes that is a news reporter being blown off her feet. Turkish authorities, go figure.)


Potato cannon!


Edit:
Orwell were you talking to yourself there?

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Re: Canon

Post by bungobaggins on Sun Sep 14, 2014 3:08 pm


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Re: Canon

Post by Eldorion on Sun Sep 14, 2014 5:25 pm

Schwerer Gustav (largest caliber gun ever actually fired in combat), with tanks for scale.

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Re: Canon

Post by Forest Shepherd on Sun Sep 14, 2014 7:25 pm

Incredible range on that cannon: it could fire a seven-ton shell up to 29 miles!
Of course it took about three weeks to set-up once it was brought via 25 rail-cars to wherever it was wanted, but at highest elevation the shell could pierce through 7 m (23 ft) of concrete.
Still, looks like sci-fi. Or some kind of revisionist steam-punk imagining.

Amazing how much effort goes into war.

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Re: Canon

Post by David H on Sun Sep 14, 2014 7:38 pm



Guy builds a *real* space cannon to (cheaply) send satellites into orbit … from his backyard

February 8, 2014 3:50 PM
Tom Cheredar


Sending objects into space doesn’t always have to be an expensive and complex task conducted exclusively by filthy rich entrepreneurs or governments. Sometimes all you need is a determined Canadian engineer, a backyard, and a Kickstarter campaign —  at least that’s what Richard Graf is hoping.

Graf built a huge, powerful “gun” in his backyard that’s capable of shooting small payloads in a suborbital trajectory. Now he’s trying to use crowdfunding to make the project a reality, which is a smart move considering the Internet generally enjoys funding ridiculously cool projects like this.

The gun, dubbed the Starfire Space Cannon, has a 45-foot barrel that will shoot small objects off the planet via a dart-shaped bullet. The ultimate goal is for the cannon to cheaply send small objects like tiny ‘cubesat’ satellites into orbit. While far less expensive than hitching a ride on SpaceX’s Grasshopper, the Starfire Space Cannon project will still cost some money.

“Rockets have been around for a long time and they work OK. The problem with a rocket is that it has to carry not just its payload but all of its fuel, the fuel tanks, and a lot of additional equipment. That makes a rocket big, and big is expensive,” Graf wrote on the cannon’s Kickstarter page. “Let’s face it, barring some breakthrough in advanced physics rockets aren’t going to get much smaller or cheaper than they are now.

“On the other hand a gun launcher can fire a vehicle that is basically a payload wrapped in an aerodynamic shell. That makes them small and small is cheap!,” he wrote.

Graf’s Kickstarter campaign is intended to fund a six shot test to ensure the cannon is functioning properly. The funds will also allow him to create a motorized rocket within the cannon’s bullet to push those objects into orbit once in space. Funding tiers range from $10 to $6,000. The most basic of those tiers let you simply support the project or shoot a random object of your choosing into space. The more expensive tiers offer you the chance to attend the cannon launch, fire the cannon, and more.

So far, the Starfire Space Cannon campaign has raised only $2,100 of its $65,000 funding goal with three weeks left. (Seriously, what is freaking wrong with you guys?!? This is your opportunity to fire potentially inappropriate or amusing items into space!) Should it reach its funding goal, the cannon testing should begin in May and run through September.

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Re: Canon

Post by halfwise on Sun Sep 14, 2014 11:35 pm

So it looks like his major innovation is spreading out the propulsive firing in order to reduce the acceleration.

Hmm...a little back of the envelop calculation shows that with the 15 meter gun he's employing, this is still 20,000 g's to reach orbital velocity, or even to get out of the atmosphere. He ain't getting MY money.

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Re: Canon

Post by Bluebottle on Mon Sep 15, 2014 12:00 am

Space cannon. Very Happy

You know they actually considered the option of building a space elevator at one point. Literally an elevator shaft right up into space. You'd get in and probably die of boredom from the muzak before you got there. Razz

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Re: Canon

Post by halfwise on Mon Sep 15, 2014 12:18 am

I believe Arthur C Clarke invented the space elevator concept in the Fountains of Paradise.  Typical slow moving Clarke stuff, I don't remember any of the plot elements, just the technical aspects which is the basis of most of his writing.

EDIT: I'm wrong, unlike the communications satellite he wasn't the first one to present a complete technological concept. Oh well.

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Re: Canon

Post by Forest Shepherd on Mon Sep 15, 2014 1:56 am

There's a lovely space elevator in Red Mars. That was the first time I'd heard of it.

So Halfwise you're saying that it's technically impossible for him to accomplish his goal with how he has gone about it?

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Re: Canon

Post by David H on Mon Sep 15, 2014 3:12 am

It would be really cool to see a home handyman crack this problem, but I wouldn't bet much on it.  It's been a quixotic quest of fringe physicists for half a century, and billions have been spent on it to no particular purpose.  Check out Project HARP in the 60's.

Edit: From wikipedia Project HARP. " In 1966 the project installed its third and final 16-inch gun at a new Yuma, Arizona test site. On November 18, 1966 the Yuma gun fired a 180 kg Martlet 2 projectile at 3,600 m/s (12,000 ft/s) sending it into space briefly and setting an altitude record of 180 km (590,000 ft; 110 mi); that world record still stands as of 2013."



It's accelerating from 0 to 12,000 ft per second (8,200 miles per hour) in the length of a short cannon barrel that's the problem. It's not a ride I'd like to take pale

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Re: Canon

Post by halfwise on Mon Sep 15, 2014 12:58 pm

Forest Shepherd wrote:There's a lovely space elevator in Red Mars. That was the first time I'd heard of it.

So Halfwise you're saying that it's technically impossible for him to accomplish his goal with how he has gone about it?

If the goal is to achieve a low enough number of g's to avoid crushing your experiment, then yes, he's clearly an idiot who never bothered to do the most basic calculational feasibility study. Then again, I've never tested apparatus against g-loading, perhaps a lot of stuff really can withstand thousands of g's for a fraction of a millisecond. I have very sincere doubts, though.

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Re: Canon

Post by Orwell on Tue Sep 16, 2014 10:09 am

Shocked

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Re: Canon

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Tue Sep 16, 2014 10:13 am

The space elevator is still a good possibility, last I read about it they were getting pretty close to cracking the major problem- creating a cable that can take the stresses and strains.

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Re: Canon

Post by odo banks on Tue Sep 16, 2014 10:29 am

This is a serious thread, you know. Mad

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Re: Canon

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Tue Sep 16, 2014 10:56 am

Dont be silly Odo, a thread no matter how special could never hold up a space elevator. Mad

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Re: Canon

Post by halfwise on Tue Sep 16, 2014 12:40 pm

Very Happy

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Re: Canon

Post by Bluebottle on Tue Sep 16, 2014 12:49 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Dont be silly Odo, a thread no matter how special could never hold up a space elevator. Mad

Weeell.. they're apparently working at it. Wink

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