US Presidential Election 2012

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Re: US Presidential Election 2012

Post by Eldorion on Sat Dec 10, 2011 4:24 am

Oh my god, those darn evil liberal muppets are brainwashing kids into thinking that sometimes enough is enough, and there are more important things than the endless pursuit of money! Shocked Shocked Shocked
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Re: US Presidential Election 2012

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sat Dec 10, 2011 4:30 am

Honestly I am finding it hard to believe even Americans can take this sort of thing with a straight face. Surely people can't really confuse this over the top pantomine propoganda as actual news? I mean how?

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Re: US Presidential Election 2012

Post by Eldorion on Sat Dec 10, 2011 4:33 am

"If you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth."
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Re: US Presidential Election 2012

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sat Dec 10, 2011 4:38 am

Just but if you say something ludicrous enough, and say it often enough it sounds even more ludicrous.
Fox isnt even subtle propoganda its comedy propoganda. I just can't get how people fall for it, people capable of walking upright, opening doors. A dead goldfish could see it was a poor excuse for journalism of any name.

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Re: US Presidential Election 2012

Post by Eldorion on Sat Dec 10, 2011 4:42 am

To be perfectly honest, I don't know. I'm not even trying to be snide here; I don't know how intelligent, educated people can watch FOX and take it seriously. To be fair, not everything on the channel is ridiculous, and it's not the only channel to have bizarre crap (cable news in general is pretty bad for your awareness of the world) but FOX News is just especially awful. I don't think it's purely FOX's ideological biases either; The Wall Street Journal is right-wing as well but they have intelligent commentary and aren't loons. I really don't get it.

For your perusement (warning - PDF): FOX News viewers among the most misinformed, NPR and The Daily Show (yes, the comedy program) among the most informed. There have been other studies like this with similar results and FOX's typical response is childish ad hominems.
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Re: US Presidential Election 2012

Post by Lorient Avandi on Sat Dec 10, 2011 4:49 am

Oh my gosh, that was the stupidest news programs i have ever seen. Smile Laughing
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Re: US Presidential Election 2012

Post by Lorient Avandi on Sat Dec 10, 2011 4:52 am

I do agree that there is nothing wrong with trying to get money, but they had almost no arguement, they sounded like idiots.
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Re: US Presidential Election 2012

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sat Dec 10, 2011 4:52 am

Interesting read- I doubt its just people from New Jersey either!

I know America can do good reporting- there was some superb journalism in the 60's andd 70's coming out of America- youre the country that gave us Hunter S Thomson for goodness sake. And the public broadcasting (sorry can't remeber what its called) news on a Sunday with the phone ins and varies experts is very well thought out and impartial. Just amazes given that people choose FOX news above all other choices.

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Re: US Presidential Election 2012

Post by Orwell on Sat Dec 10, 2011 11:19 pm

Not a cunning Democrat ruse to make the Republicans look stupider than they already are? Not possible, you say? Very Happy

I liked Obama's comment about him waiting until all of them (The Republicans) are voted off the island! Laughing

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Re: US Presidential Election 2012

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:07 pm

Just say Newt Gringrich in his tv debate defending calling the Palestinians 'a made up people'.
Really this guy could be the next President? Mad

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Re: US Presidential Election 2012

Post by odo banks on Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:49 pm

Next he'll be saying hobbits are made up! Ridiculous! Shocked

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Re: US Presidential Election 2012

Post by Sandra Słoma on Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:19 pm

Hobits are my fave type of bics, i think thats how theyre translated maybe? I do now know Mad

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Re: US Presidential Election 2012

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:26 pm

'bics' has got me confused sandra- but not to worry we'll get to the bottom of it. Very Happy

And welcome to the forum. cheers Always a joy to have new folks here. I hope you settle in. Nod

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Re: US Presidential Election 2012

Post by Orwell on Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:27 pm

I have absolutely no idea what a bics is (are?), Sandra. Oh, and do I detect an accent that is not English? That would be cool. Very Happy (If it is "English"- that's cool too, of course! cheers ).


Last edited by Orwell on Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:29 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: US Presidential Election 2012

Post by Orwell on Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:28 pm

Must you post while I'm posting, Petty? ... Mind, we seem to be on the same wavelength.... --- .... Sweet Eru! Shocked

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Re: US Presidential Election 2012

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:30 pm

I'm sure it will pass. Rolling Eyes

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Re: US Presidential Election 2012

Post by Orwell on Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:30 pm

Hope so... Shocked

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Re: US Presidential Election 2012

Post by Sandra Słoma on Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:42 pm

my bad, I thought 'bics' was a shorterend word of biscits in english
there is a brand in poland similar too hobbits
obvisly i know what hobbits are, i've seen the films and reading the books (in polish)
obviouly that joke went bad, oh dear Smile

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Re: US Presidential Election 2012

Post by Sandra Słoma on Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:44 pm

once my english is a littlebetter I think we'll all be okay Smile

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Re: US Presidential Election 2012

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:47 pm

aha- I see now what you were getting at Sandra. Biccies is probably more common as a shorthand than bics- bics being a brand of pen.
But I'm guessing any attempt I made to pun in Polish would fare a lot worse than your English, especially given my knowledge of other languages is classicly British- I was taught just to shout louder in English at foreigners!! Very Happy

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Re: US Presidential Election 2012

Post by Orwell on Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:57 pm

Our first Polehobbit! Wow! cheers

My best mate is a first generation Ozhobbit (from Ozhobbitstan*), Sandra, but his folks are Poles. I know this means nothing, really, but it gives me a warm feeling just now thinking about it. Very Happy

In all fairness, I need warn you, there are probably certain folk in Forumshire who will seek to make unfair fun about Poles and Poland. Horrible news, but oh so true! Forumshire is not a very Respectable place. It's about the only thing Odo Banks and his family are right about. Be brave though, Sandra, be Brave!

Oh dear, we must face facts! Forumshire folk delight in "eel" jokes and all sorts of other (usually naughty and saucy) jokes and they are bound to find something to say about "poles"...

(hee hee hee)

... not that I would ever do it, mind! Very Happy





*Ozhobbitstan = "Australia" btw.

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Re: US Presidential Election 2012

Post by Eldorion on Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:47 am

Lorient's boy Mitt Romney on the campaign trail (via the AP):

MANCHESTER, N.H. — When Mitt Romney sat down next to a patron wearing a Vietnam veteran's cap, Romney wanted to ask him about his military service.

But 63-year-old Bob Garon wanted to talk about gays in the military — because he is a gay veteran.

Garon was sitting in a booth across from his husband, Bob Lemire, at Chez Vachon, a must-stop diner for politicians looking for votes in the New Hampshire primary.

Garon and Lemire eat there nearly every morning. The owners call them "The Bobs."

Surrounded by a crush of TV cameras, Romney asked Garon about his tour in Vietnam. But Garon asked if Romney would support efforts to repeal the New Hampshire law that legalized gay marriage in the state and allowed him and Lemire to marry.

Romney said he supported the repeal because marriage is between a man and a woman.

"OK, that means if you were in the White House, you would not support any form of legislation that would change that so a serviceman would be entitled to any benefits like a man and a woman?" Garon asked. "A veteran and a spouse would not be entitled to any burial benefits, or medical benefits, or anything that the serviceman has devoted his time and effort to his country, and you just don't support equality in terms of same-sex marriage?"

When a veteran dies, his or her spouse is often entitled to certain benefits, including possibly being interred next to their spouse in a military cemetery.

"I believe that marriage is a relationship between a man and a woman," Romney responded. "The Defense of Marriage Act that exists in Washington today defines benefits, whether for veterans or non-veterans as between married spouses and for me that's a man and a woman. We apparently disagree on that."

An aide tried to remove Romney from the situation, claiming the candidate had another interview with Fox News Channel.

It was the kind of unscripted encounter Romney has tried to avoid on the campaign trail, preferring instead to be surrounded by supporters or to make campaign stops without the media trailing him. He stopped at two New Hampshire establishments on Sunday to meet voters, but didn't tell reporters he was going.

Romney says he'll do more unscripted events in the next few weeks. Like them or not, he'll have to: the Iowa caucuses are about three weeks away, on Jan. 3, and the New Hampshire primary follows a week later on Jan. 10.
After Romney's aide tried to get him out of what turned into awkward diner conversation, Garon said: "Oh, I guess the question was too hot."

"No, I gave you the answer," Romney responded, saying Garon had asked for a yes-or-no answer.

Garon wished him good luck and Romney moved on.

Reporters asked Garon to explain why he had questioned Romney so intently.

"Because I'm gay, all right?" Garon said. "And I happen to love a man just like you probably love your wife. Alright? And I think that he or she or whatever are entitled to the same rights that I have. I fought for my country, I did my thing, and I think that my spouse should be entitled to the same entitlements as if I was married to a woman. What the hell is the difference?"

What a douche he is. Sadly he's still one of the more palatable Republican candidates.
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Re: US Presidential Election 2012

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:53 am

The more I wathcha nd hear of the Republican candidates the more I hope its all over nothing and none of them wins. Obama might not have done all people wish but at he least he comes across as sane.
The stuff coming out of the Republican candidates is bizarre from a eurocentrc point of view, most of the opinions being expressed seem medeival and from the dark ages. Its as if America is refighting the religous wars of the past with the Republicans casting themselves as the backwards thinking, power hungry Church using God to hold onto power and to cause fear.
It failed in Europe and I can but hope it will in the US too. Illuvatar help you if it doesn't.

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Re: US Presidential Election 2012

Post by Eldorion on Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:01 am

Religion in America has always been different from religion in Europe. It's somewhat paradoxical since the U.S. has no state church and in fact has constitutional guarantees against religious influence in public life, but the population of the U.S. is overwhelmingly religious, and many of them are religious in a way and an intensity that is very rare in Europe. That ends up having a much bigger impact than anything in the constitution, court rulings, etc.

I'm not sure which is more insidious: a large, corrupt organization expressing its power through religion or a multitude of smaller (though usually still large) and more "grassroots" churches that have a broader base of public support and spread bigoted and hateful messages through the entire culture. Note that while a majority of Christians even in America are moderates, there is still a great deal of casual homophobia and the like, and moderates have always been enablers for extremists, just as during the Civil Rights Movement:

MLK, Letter from Birmingham Jail wrote:I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.

(Yes, I know I posted that before, but it's as topical now as it has ever been. Wink)
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Re: US Presidential Election 2012

Post by Eldorion on Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:04 am

Also, Obama's record on gay rights is unfortunately far from perfect, though strangely many people on the "left" (though I use that term loosely with regards to American politics) seem to forget that and mistake him for more gay-friendly than he is. He has spoken out against gay marriage, though at other times he seems willing to at least reconsider his position. He's also in favor of civil-unions, which while still falling into the fallacious trap of "separate but equal", is still better than what almost all GOP candidates will agree to.

In fact, for people on the left or centre-left, much of US politics comes down to determining who is the least bad. I say this because the Democratic Party is quite conservative by the standards of just about all other "first world" "liberal democracies" other than the U.S., while the Republican Party is so far to the Right that it barely registers on other country's political spectrums.
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