FREEDOM!!!!

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Re: FREEDOM!!!!

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sun Oct 09, 2011 10:08 pm

Yeah we've always known he was a Scot- they recently found what is suspected to be the Round Table.

'The King's Knot, a geometrical earthwork in the former royal gardens below Stirling Castle, has been shrouded in mystery for hundreds of years.
Though the Knot as it appears today dates from the 1620s, its flat-topped central mound is thought to be much older.
Writers going back more than six centuries have linked the landmark to the legend of King Arthur.
Archaeologists from Glasgow University, working with the Stirling Local History Society and Stirling Field and Archaeological Society, conducted the first ever non-invasive survey of the site in May and June in a bid to uncover some of its secrets.
Their findings were show there was indeed a round feature on the site that pre-dates the visible earthworks.
Historian John Harrison, chair of the SLHS, who initiated the project, said: "Archaeologists using remote-sensing geophysics, have located remains of a circular ditch and other earth works beneath the King's Knot.
"The finds show that the present mound was created on an older site and throws new light on a tradition that King Arthur's Round Table was located in this vicinity." - Telegraph.

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Re: FREEDOM!!!!

Post by Kafria on Sun Oct 09, 2011 10:15 pm

Fab! I love the way these tales endure and spread. Looking at the Celtic history and how they are part of the indo-european cultures has been fascinating, the similarities in norse/ celtic and indian myth are numerous. And then the split into the distinct tradtions within the isles themselves is equally interesting.

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Re: FREEDOM!!!!

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sun Oct 09, 2011 10:26 pm

Yeah I love all the half mythological stuff- creatures like the kelpies, always been fascinated by that stuff. My grandad used to tell amazng tales like that, he was the last one in my family who spoke Gaelic as a natural tongue. I only know a few words I picked up from him (mainly swearing to be honest Very Happy )

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Re: FREEDOM!!!!

Post by Kafria on Sun Oct 09, 2011 10:38 pm

May be picking your brains in November then when I get stuck for plot!

It's clear that even when Cristianity moved in the Celtic background still had a fundamental influence on how it was interpreted.

There was a counter tradition to Rome (who felt that salvation and undertanding of god comes through the church), in that the Celtic faith (from Iona and Lindesfarne) believed that understanding and salvation could be found through gods prescene in every living thing. It was pushed out due to a synod at Whitby (under Abess Hilda in 664 apparently) and Roman teachings became the central ones, but can still be found!

The more I read up the more depth and variety of ideas there are to build upon

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Re: FREEDOM!!!!

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sun Oct 09, 2011 10:48 pm

There is rich tapestry in celtic myhtology- even the early christian/celtic church stuff. transformation was important to them - you will find that idea coming up a lot. Also they had a fascinatation with meeting places- night and day, land and sea, life an death. Anywhere one thing became another and the point where they crossed (for this reason marshes and bogs were important and ceremonial/religous objects were often put in them as well as burials).
The form the first Christianity took in Scotland (and it was adopted without much trouble very early on) is quite uniqe in its combination of the pagan belief with the Christian (my own theory for this is that the original pagan religion was exported earlier to the mid-east and came back centuries later in the form of Christianity so was easy to adopt as many of the core ideas were still the same).

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Re: FREEDOM!!!!

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:01 am

Thought this might be helpful for your writing project Kafria. Some of Scotlands mythological personanges.


Black Donald
- the devil - who cannot disguise his cloven feet. (*a post Christian one this obviously)

Boobrie - water-bird of the Scottish Highlands. (*a large black bird with webbed feet which eats cattle- supposedly from Argyll, my neck of the woods, can't say I've ever seen one though)

Brownie - good-natured, invisible brown elves or household goblins. The younger version of the "Girl Guides" in Britain at least are called "Brownies" for that very reason!

Clootie - another Scottish name for the Devil. The name comes from cloot, meaning one division of a cleft hoof. (*another post christian one)

Fachan - one leg, one arm and one eye. (*I've never worked out if this came form a specific person or if at some point in Scotlands past such people were so common it needed a word for them!)

Fionn - Scottish/Pictish magician, warrior and poet.

Ghillie Dhu - a solitary Scottish elf.

Kelpie - a water devil.

Lothian - Lothian traditionally takes its name from King Lot and father of Mordred. (*one of the Arthur legends here)

Monster of Loch Ness - mythical? Surely not.... First seen by St Columba in 565 a.d. (*and as recently as this summer)

Red Cap - A fearsome spirit who haunted the old border castles, he was wiry and small, with Iron claws and a red bonnet. They dipped their hats in their victims blood to give them their red colour.

Scotia - a goddess but frequently portrayed as an old hag!

Selkie - a marine creature in the shape of a seal. (*I've always thought a marine creature in the shape of a seal is, um, well, a seal isn't it?)

Shellycoat - a Scottish bogeyman who haunts the rivers and streams. He is covered with shells, which rattle when he moves.

Sidhe- the Gaelic name for fairies in both Ireland and the Highlands of Scotland.

And a quick tale or two from the Scottish myths and legends website.

Legend tells us that a Scottish queen was given a ring by her husband. But she gave it to a handsome soldier and the king found out. He came across the soldier asleep by a river bank, took the ring, threw it in the water and challenged his wife to produce the ring. St Mungo, who was to become the patron saint of Glasgow, miraculously returned the ring by catching the right salmon and finding it in its stomach. The arms of the City of Glasgow now include a salmon with a ring in its mouth.

The Fairy Flag of Dunvegan associated with Clan MacLeod is said to be a scrap of cloth torn from the dress of a fairy who had married a chieftain of the MacLeods but had to leave mortal life after twenty years of marriage. Also at Dunvegan Castle is "Rory Mor's Horn" from which a new chief must drink a bottle and a half of claret in one go! According to the guide book for the castle, the present chief achieved this - in under two minutes! (* you can visit Dunvegan and still see the Fairy Flag- well whats left of it).

Seers also have quite a popular past in Scotland. IN particular the Brahan Seer, Coinneach Odhar.
He used a stone with a hole in the middle to 'see' his predictions. Heres some of them.

"One day ships will sail round the back of Tomnahurich Hill"

This is a remarkable prediction - firstly, there was already a passage for shipping - the River Ness, on the opposite south side of Tomnahurich Hill from today's canal - and the only choice for boats in the Brahan Seer's day. To say that ships would sail round the opposite side of the hill from the river seemed highly illogical to those who first heard the prediction.
But the prediction came true. Today the 19th century Caledonian Canal forks off from the River Ness at the eastern head of Loch Ness - which continues its route through Inverness town centre - and heads north-east "round the back of Tomnahurich", exiting into the Moray Firth at Clachnaharry.

According to this prophecy, "The day will come when the MacKenzies of Fairburn shall lose their entire possessions; their castle will become uninhabited and a cow shall give birth to a calf in the uppermost chamber of the tower." This apparently heralded the demise of the MacKenzies of Kintail and Seaforth.

In 1851, the now-ruined tower was being used by a farmer to store hay, and a cow gave birth in the garret. It is believed that the animal, following a trail of hay, entered the tower, climbed to the top, and got stuck. Both the cow and the calf were taken down five days later, allowing enough time for people to come and see the prophecy fulfilled. This was one of four prophecies by the Seer regarding Fairburn, at least three of which are reputed to have been fulfilled.

He predicted that when there should be a deaf Caberfae the gift land of the estate would be sold and the male line become extinct and that this would occur while there were four great contemporary lords distinguished by physical defects which he described. The four were Sir Hector Mackenzie, Bt of Gairloch (who was buck-toothed), Chisholm of Chisholm (squint-eyed/crooked eyed[3] and hare-lipped), Grant of Grant (half-witted) and MacLeod of Raasay (a stammerer). Lord Seaforth's last surviving son died 1814 at about the time that he sold certain gift lands.

He predicted that when there were five bridges over the River Ness in Inverness that there would be worldwide chaos. In August 1939 there were five bridges over the Ness and on September 1 the same year Hitler invaded Poland.
He said that when there were nine bridges that there would be fire, flood and calamity. The ninth bridge was built in 1987 and in 1988 the Piper Alpha disaster happened.

A popular urban legend on the oil rigs of Scotland is that the Seer predicted the appearance of a "one-legged, fire-breathing giant from Nigg". And in due course the mono-pod (one-legged) oil platform the Ninian Central was built on the west coast at Kishorn and installed in the North Sea, where it has produced oil and flared (burned) gas for many years since. Nigg is the site of another Scottish oil rig manufacturing facility across the Cromarty Firth and The Sutors from Cromarty on the Black Isle, 10 miles from Chanonry Point.

The Blue Men of the Minch

Folklore tells of a tribe of supernatural sea creatures called the Blue Men of the Minch, who used to inhabit the stretch of water known as the Minch, between Lewis, the Shiant Islands and Long Island.
They were humanoid in appearance with blue skin, kinned with mermen they would swim alongside ships passing the Sound of Shiant in an attempt to lure sailors into the water, and conjure storms to wreck ships. They lived in deep underwater caves in a clan system ruled over by a chief. Like many supernatural creatures they could be beaten with a cunning tongue, and by making sure you got the last word in a rhyme. Many a sea captain is said to have escaped sure disaster with the sharpness of his tongue, and his skill in riddles.

Loch Druich Mermaids

There is a story connected to Loch Druich and three brothers who happened across a troupe of merfolk. One night the brothers were by the loch side when they saw a group of seals come up onto the beach and shred their furry skins. Beneath the skins were naked people, who danced together on the shore.
The three brothers were captivated by the beauty of three of the mermaids and decided that they wanted to marry these girls. They crept down to the shore line and stole the seal skins left by the maidens. When the merfolk started to return to the loch, the three mermaids were stranded and their family were heart broken to have to leave them behind. In came the brothers to the rescue, each taking a mermaid back to his home, taking care of her and marrying her.
The youngest brother saw his wife was extremely sad and unhappy for she longed to be back with her people. He loved her so much that he could stand to see her pining for her family, so he gave her back the seal skin he had taken and allowed to leave. Nine nights later the merfolk returned with the mermaid. She introduced the youngest brother to her father, who explained that his daughter was equally in love with the brother, therefore they struck a bargain, that the mermaid would be allowed to return to him on each ninth night.
The mermaid bride of the second brother found the seal skin that her husband had hidden away and stole it back. She returned to Loch Druich and he never saw her again.
The eldest brother was told what had happen and was terrified that his wife may find a way to steal back her own skin and leave him alone. He decided that the best thing to do would be to destroy the skin, so he set it on fire. He had not however realised the bond between a mermaid and her seal skin and by setting it on fire he burnt his wife alive.
The description of the mermaids in this tale would actually better suit the Scottish Silkie better.

Each-Uisge
According to Mr. J. Calder Ross in 'Scottish Notes and Queries' (1893) "John MacInnes found the labour of his farm sadly burdensome. In the midst of his sighing an unknown being appeared to him and promised a horse to him under certain conditions. These conditions John undertook to fulfil. One day, accordingly, he found a fine horse (a Each-Uisge, or water horse) grazing in one of his fields. He happened to be ploughing at the time, and at once he yoked the animal to the plough along with another horse. The stranger worked splendidly, and he determined to keep it, though he well knew that it was far from canny. Every night when he stabled it he spread some earth from a mole's hill over it as a charm; according to another version he merely blessed the animal. One night he forgot his usual precautions: perhaps he was beginning to feel safe. The horse noticed the omission, and seizing poor John in his teeth, galloped off with him. The two disappeared in the loch."

Finfolk
On 14th July 1990, eighty-eight bird watchers got off a ferry organised by the Orkney Heritage Society and the Royal Society for the Protection of Birds at the uninhabited Eynhallow Island. Only eighty-six returned for the journey back, which sparked a huge search and rescue operation involving the police and coastguard. The two people were never found and it was assumed that the crew of the ferry may have miscounted the amount of passengers they had taken to over to the island.
However, some of the older members of the Orkney community suggested that the two people may not have been human, but were instead Finfolk (mer-people) and that they had returned to their own kind. Or that perhaps they were human and stolen away by a Finwife, who according to tradition needed a human male to prevent her from aging.
The Finfolk were much feared amphibious nomadic shape-shifting sorcerers who possessed an amazing talent for boating handling and had a reputation for kidnapping both the inhabitants of the Orkney Islands.

Earth Dogs
A mythical creature that may be confined to one area of Banffshire in Scotland, according to Walter Grigor in his ‘Notes on the folklore of NE Scotland’ published in 1881, the Yird Swine were a “dreaded ..animal” that lived in graveyards and burrowed through the earth feeding on the dead bodies.

Baobhan Sith
A very dangerous female vampire who haunted the highland regions.

Bean Nighe
The Scottish version of the washer woman at the ford. She always wore green and had webbed feet. She was not always a death portent, and would grant three wishes in certain circumstances.

Baisd Bheulach
A shapeshifting demon who haunted the Odail Pass on the Isle of Skye, its howls could be heard in the night.

Bodach

A dark grey humanoid figure who was thought to foretell the death of members in a clan.

Bodachan Sabhaill (the little old man of the barn)
A spirit who haunted barns in Scotland, in common with a brownie he would occupy his time doing farming chores.

Brollachan
Scots Gaelic for shapeless thing, a creature of the night.

Brown Man of the Muirs
A supernatural guardian of the wild creatures from the Border region of Scotland. He wore brown clothes, and had a shock of red frizzy hair and wild eyes.

Cailleach Bheur
A blue faced hag of the highlands associated with winter and a guardian of animals. She may represent a crone aspect of the triple goddess once worshiped by the ancient Britons.

Cait Sith
A supernatural cat from the Highland region, the creature was as big as a dog and completely black apart from one white spot on its breast. Perhaps the belief is related to some of the mystery black cats that have been caught in the region.

Caoineag
A banshee like spirit attached to the clans of the Highlands, who could be heard wailing at the bottom of waterfalls before there is death or catastrophe within the clan. Her name means 'the weeper'.

Caointeach
The Argyll version of the washer woman at the ford, a banshee who foretell death in the clans.

Ceasg
A Highland mermaid whose contact, in common with most mermaids, is perilous to mankind. If captured she would grant 3 wishes.

Ciuthach
A cave dwelling spirit localised to the Highlands.

Coliunn Gun Cheann (The Headless Trunk)
A huge hulking monster with no head who haunted the Macdonald lands near Morar House. Travellers would often be found mutilated by the creature. The creature was banished after defeat by a clan member.

Crodh Mara
Highland fairy water cattle.

Cu Sith
A green phantom dog who haunted the highland regions. The creature was the size of large calf and could hunt in silence.

Cuachag
A dangerous river sprite that haunts Glen Cuaich in Invernesshire.

Direach
A monster with one leg and one arm who haunted Glen Etive.

Doonie

A shape shifting Scottish Fairy, who could take the form of a pony or an old man or woman.

Ghillie Dhu Gille Dubh
A benevolent fairy who was said to haunt a birch grove at the end of Loch Druing near Gairloch. It wore clothes of moss and lichen and had black hair.

Glaistig
Fairies with golden hair who helped around farms.

Nuckelavee
A hideous creature part horse and part man with long sinewy arms. The creature had no skin and its muscle structure and veins could clearly be seen. It had an aversion to fresh water.

Slaugh
A name given to a group of very dangerous spirits from the highlands. They were known as the unforgiven dead. They were always malevolent and sometimes thought to be fallen angels.

Spunkies
The lowland name for the Will o' the Wisp.

Urisk
A spirit very similar to a faun in that they are half human and half goat. They are said to haunt pools and waterfalls.

Water Wraiths

Female water spirits who drag people down into the depths. They dressed in green and had withered faces.

Wulver
A Shetland supernatural creature with the body of man and a wolfs head. They were said to be benevolent.


Hopefully Kafria there is enough here to inspire your writing- and be an intresting read in its own right.

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Re: FREEDOM!!!!

Post by Kafria on Mon Oct 10, 2011 4:47 pm

These are great, already sparking ideas off in my head!

Thanks!

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Re: FREEDOM!!!!

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:11 pm

Happy to help.

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Re: FREEDOM!!!!

Post by Pseudo-Kafria on Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:02 pm

Yes, I'm planning lots of naughty goings on between different kinds of fairy-type folk... You know me, Petty. I'm full of naughty fantasy ideas! Very Happy

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Re: FREEDOM!!!!

Post by Kafria on Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:35 pm

Pseudo-Kafria wrote:Yes, I'm planning lots of naughty goings on between different kinds of fairy-type folk... You know me, Petty. I'm full of naughty fantasy ideas! Very Happy

No nothing as mundane as that! (Rebirth of the mother goddess, as heroines child, in keeping with the cyclic tradition of rebirth - otherworld and then this one - inherent in the Celtic pagan creation myth! That is the ultimate goal, several stories down the line!)

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Re: FREEDOM!!!!

Post by Orwell on Tue Oct 11, 2011 12:33 am

[quote="Kafria"]
Pseudo-Kafria wrote:Rebirth... mother goddess... cyclic... rebirth - otherworld ... inherent... pagan...!

Very adult fantasy? Mmm... like it! Nod

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Re: FREEDOM!!!!

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Tue Oct 11, 2011 12:49 am

Sounds good kafria- keep transformation in mind too- the old stories are big on the notion- people becoming swine, birds (especially water birds) as representive of different stages in the cyle of life. OOh you could use it in the descriptive narrative of your main charccater- use words that suit a particular animal without the character phyically transforming if you follow. So the swine stage use adjectives etc that you would use for a boar- boarish, snorting, charging etc and for the bird stage use language like flightly, graceful, soaring etc. Just a random thought chucked out into the ether.

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Re: FREEDOM!!!!

Post by Orwell on Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:19 am

I think you've been imbibing too much ether, Petty. Rolling Eyes I'm opting for more sex. (Will sell better, Kafria! Very Happy)

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Re: FREEDOM!!!!

Post by Baingil on Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:30 am

I think I prefer Petty's idea. Turning a few people into squirrels and kittens randomly would be awesome. Very Happy
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Re: FREEDOM!!!!

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:36 am

I think Orwell must be at a certain stage in life Baingil, you know how Shakespeare says old men are second come to childhood, needing fed and cleaned? Well I supsect Orwell is at a stage of life where you get a second teenage period where you are unduly focused on sex. (At least I hope thats what happens- gives me something to look forward to in my old age other than my ambiton to be the most annoying, irratating awful resident ever in a care home).

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Re: FREEDOM!!!!

Post by Orwell on Tue Oct 11, 2011 2:04 am

While I approve of your ambition, Petty (indeed, I hope to be your main rival), I don't agree with your thoughts about me, Petty. I'll have you know that I am in the Prime of Life, and when I'm not thinking about sex I'm actually doing it (about once every two months or so - at least, six monthly...). So, there! Mad

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Re: FREEDOM!!!!

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Tue Oct 11, 2011 2:08 am

Good to know at your age that you are at least getting semi regular exercise Orwell. And it sure as hell beats jogging.

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Re: FREEDOM!!!!

Post by Orwell on Tue Oct 11, 2011 2:32 am

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Good to know at your age that you are at least getting semi regular exercise Orwell. And it sure as hell beats jogging.

If I remember correctly, I think you're right... Laughing

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Re: FREEDOM!!!!

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Tue Oct 11, 2011 2:35 am

The amount of buckie I have in me at any given time I will trust to your memory on this before mine! Very Happy

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Re: FREEDOM!!!!

Post by Orwell on Tue Oct 11, 2011 3:01 am

lol!

No - hang on --- Crying or Very sad

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Re: FREEDOM!!!!

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Tue Oct 11, 2011 3:23 am

Well its always nice to get a new perspective. Very Happy

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Re: FREEDOM!!!!

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:40 am

Several days ago a story broke in Scotland, it received quite wide spread coverage especially acoss the internet so you may have come across it. At a shopping centre in Braehead a man was questioned by police after taking a photograph of his daughter eating ice cream. The Police it was said tried to confiscate his phone and force him to delete the image using anti-terror legislation.
This ridiculous set of circumstances had people frothing at the mouth over it.
However yesterday Strathclyde Police took the unusual step of putting out the following statement;

'“It is absolutely right and proper that when a complaint about the police is made that it is fully investigated. The public need to know that their complaints are taken seriously and are acted upon promptly and professionally. This is exactly what has happened in this incident.
Mr White complained to the police about the incident in Braehead. In his statement he set out a set of circumstances that has caused widespread debate, comment and criticism for those who he alleged were involved. Mr White chose to make his complaint public, to give interviews to the media and to seek debate on social networks.
We are well aware that, as a result of this social media conversation, demonstrations are being planned this weekend at Braehead. We have also seen global media coverage of the incident – all of which has painted the shopping centre, this police force and, arguably, our country in a very negative light.
It is because Mr White chose to seek publicity for his account of events and because of the planned demonstration that we feel compelled to take the unusual step of making our findings public.
In reaching our conclusions, officers took statements from a number of independent witnesses and viewed the substantial amount of CCTV that was available in the centre.
On reviewing all of this objective evidence, I have to tell you that we can find no basis to support the complaint which Mr.White has elected to make.
The members of the public who asked for the security staff to become involved have told us that they did so for reasons which had absolutely nothing to do with him taking photographs of his daughter. They had a very specific concern, which I am not in a position to discuss publicly, that they felt the need to report. It was because of this very specific concern that security staff became involved. They were right to raise their concern and we are glad that they did so.
The security staff were the ones who asked for police involvement. Again, this was not because Mr White said he had been photographing his daughter, but was due to the concerns that they themselves had regarding this particular incident.
When our officers became involved they did not confiscate any items, nor was Mr White questioned under counter terrorist legislation. It is wrong to suggest that the police spoke to Mr White because he claimed he had been photographing his daughter, or that officers made any reference to counter terror legislation. Mr.White knows, or ought to know, why our officers spoke with him.
Since Mr White chose to publish his version of events on Facebook, we have seen substantial traditional media and social media activity around the story. People have been very quick to offer their opinions on this issue and were very keen to accept Mr White’s story as the only evidence that was available. Clearly this was not the case.
Social media allowed this story to spread quickly around the world. I hope that the same media allows this part of the tale to move just as quickly.
For the avoidance of any doubt, we have fully investigated this incident and we can say that none of the independent and objective evidence presented to us by either the members of the public or the CCTV backs up the claims made by Mr White.”

Sorry for the legth of that but it seemd only fair to give their statement in full.
Now I can see how his version of events took hold on line but this was also reported in supposedly respectable newspapers and media outlets, surely the worry hre is that they are taking stories from the internet and publishing them without seeming to apply any of the normal checks on a story the media should be doing. Is this what our journalism has come to now?

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Re: FREEDOM!!!!

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:59 pm

Alex Salmond (Scotlands First Minister if you havent been keeping up!) was interviewed the other morning on BBC Breakfast. Every time he is interviewed by somone in England they go on about the referendum on independence and why he isnt having it now. Which shows how little people down south are aware of Scotlands political mood- we know we are getting a referendum and we know when- in the second half of the parliamentray term- no one here is currently bothered by this, its what we voted for at the Scottish elections, we knew when it would be, so why do english commentators have such a hard time with this simple concept. It bugs the hell out of me I don't know how Salmond doesnt just explode they keep banging on about it. Anyway judge for yourselves as heres the interview.
ps latest polls show popularity for independence growing an is now over the 50% mark.


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Re: FREEDOM!!!!

Post by Orwell on Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:32 am

There'll be starvation, Petty - and will the English have to save you again? Rolling Eyes (I'm not saying this to just to bait you though --- not really.... queen Not a very good picture of the Queen, I know. Maybe you could organize an Elizabeth II smilee, p'raps? Also, who is the current heir to the Scottish Throne? I'm talking about a descendant of James II, of course. Nod You will need a King, won't you? Suspect )


Last edited by Orwell on Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:36 am; edited 3 times in total

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Re: FREEDOM!!!!

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:33 am

I think your thinking of the Irish Orwell!

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