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Re: Different translations!

Post by Eldorion on Wed Jan 11, 2012 7:45 pm

That sounds fascinating! I studied German in Uni and while I was never all that good (even less now that it's been a year or so) it's one of the few foreign (for me) languages that I know anything about. I'd love to see your list of the changed names once you've finished it, if you're interested in sharing it. Smile
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Re: Different translations!

Post by Semiramis on Wed Jan 11, 2012 8:30 pm

Sure! I'd be delighted if anyone would read it!
My goal is to finish it in the summer when I'm on holiday Wink
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Re: Different translations!

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Jan 11, 2012 8:35 pm

I'd read it Sem! Very Happy

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Re: Different translations!

Post by chris63 on Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:22 pm



Last edited by chris63 on Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:21 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Different translations!

Post by Amarië on Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:46 am

Pettytyrant101 wrote:I'd read it Sem! Very Happy

Me too! bounce

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Re: Different translations!

Post by Eldorion on Fri Jan 13, 2012 3:20 am

I was just having another read-through the list you so kindly PMed, Sem, and I wanted to say again that it really is fantastic. Very Happy I'm having fun trying to pick out which root words I still recognize from my old German classes. Laughing Thanks again for sharing it!
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Re: Different translations!

Post by Amarië on Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:12 am

That was a brilliant list, Sem! Truly enjoyable to read! And good to see that they are good translations and not words take out of nowhere. Smile

As I was reading the list I came to think that it would be fun to have a list like that in Norwegian.

Then as I thought I would google to see if there were such a list already on the web somewhere, since I most likely wont ever have the time. (Ringdrotten! Did you find that paper yet?)

While failing in finding a list, I instead came across a total crushing review (or execution) by Helge Fauskanger of the first Swedish translation made by Ohlmarks. (Helge is the man behind the Ardalambion site and the (Neo) Quenya Course! )

And boy, I had no idea how messed up the Swedish translation was, it is too bad the article is written in Norwegian. But among the smaller mistakes is that Luthien is BLOND!
---->Read it here, fellow Scandinavians! <----

It seems the first Norwegian translation may have been equally bad, HF says he hasn't seen enough of it to make a review, but he quotes a newspaper review from then, saying that the translation had "Norwegian Tolkien fans summon all of Sauron's curses upon publisher and translator".


Last edited by Amarië on Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:17 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : me spell gudd all tymes)

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Re: Different translations!

Post by Norc on Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:11 pm

I would like to read that list too, Sem, as I am too taking german at school Smile

yeah, I believe the first translation in norwegian is terrible (the one where Baggins is Bagger or Sekker or something...) reading the artikkel now Wink
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Re: Different translations!

Post by Norc on Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:33 pm

å herregud!!! that translation is HORRIBLE!! no respect for Tolkien's work AT ALL! OMG! wish all of you guy here could read this, mayeb I'll translate it to you, or maybe Ringdrotten could (he seems a better lore-master than me). It is just amazing how he has twisted the words of Tolkien, added his own (words AND sentences) and translated elvish names with absolutely no knowledge of what they actually mean!

btw, is that the only Swedish translation?
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Re: Different translations!

Post by Semiramis on Fri Jan 13, 2012 2:29 pm

As there where further inquiries about the translation list; and as it has started an argument, I'm going to post it now.
(the list is incomplete - it ends at chapter 1 of book 4; the words are in alphabetical order)

Translated by Wolfgang Krege in 2000

Characters - Personen
(peoples, families, animals etc. - Völker, Familien, Tiere etc.)

Bagginses – Beutlins
Barliman Butterbur – Gerstenmann Butterblüm
Barrow-wights – Grabwichte
Beechbone – Buchenbein
Bill Farny – Lutz Farnrich
Bounders – Grenzer
Bracegirdle – Straffgürtel
Bandobras "Bullroarer" Took – Bandobras „Bullenrassler“ Tuk
Brandybuck - Brandybock
Brockhouses – Brockhäuser
Burrowses – Wühler

Chubb – Pausbacken

Easterling – Ostling
Entings – Entkinder

Gaffer – Ohm
Gamgee – Gamdschie
Gandalf Greyhame – Gandalf Graumantel
Gandalf Stormcrow – Gandalf Sturmkrähe
Gandalf Pilgrim Grey – Gandalf Grauer Wanderer
Goldberry - Goldbeere
Goodbodies – Gutleibs
Grey Company – Graue Schar
Grubb – Spachtler

Harry – Heinrich
High Elves - Hochelben
Hornblowers - Hornbläser

Leaflock (Finglas) - Lockenblatt
Lumpkin – Pumpel

Orc - Ork

Proudfoot – Stolzfußens

Quickbeam (Bregalad) – Flinkbaum

Rangers – Waldläufer
Ringwraiths - Ringgeister

Sackville-Bagginses – Sackheim-Beutlins
Skinbark (Fladrif) - Borkenhaut
Shadowfax – Schattenfell
Snowmane – Schneemähne
Stoors – Starren
Strider - Streicher

Thorin Oakenshield – Thorin Eichenschild

Places - Orte
(cities, states, inns, etc. - Städte, Länder, Wirtshäuser etc.)

Bag End – Beutelsend
Bagshot Row – Beutelhaldenweg
Black Pit – Schwarze Grube
Brandy Hall - Brandyschloss
Buckland – Bockland
Bucklebury - Bockenburg
Bywater – Wasserau

Chamber of Records (Mazarbul) - Archivkammer
Combe - Schlucht
Crickhollow – Krickloch

Dale – Thal
Death Down - Todeshöhe
Desolation of Smaug – Smaugs Einöde
Dunharrow - Dunharg

(North-, Ost-, etc.) Farthing – (Nord-, Ost-, etc.) Viertel

Grey Havens – Graue Anfurten

Haysend - Hagsend
Hobbiton – Hobbingen
Hollin (Eregion) - Hulsten

Marish - Bruch
Michel Delving – Michelbinge

Naith of Lorien – Winkel von Lorien

Overhill – Oberbühl

Rivendell (Imladris) – Bruchtal
Rohan Riddermark – Rohan Reitermark

Shire – Auenland
Staddle - Stadel

The Green Dragon – Zum Grünen Drachen
The Ivy Bush – Zum Efeubusch
The Prancing Pony – Zum Tänzelnden Pony

Wellinghall - Quellhall
Westernesse (Numenor) – Westernis

Nature - Natur
(rivers, mountains, flowers, etc. - Flüsse, Berge, Blumen etc.)

Amon Hen (Hill of Sight) – Amon Hen (Berg des Auges)
Amon Lhaw (Hill of Hearing) – Amon Lhaw (Berg des Ohrs)
Anduin Great River – Anduin Großer Strom

Barrow-downs - Hügelgräberhöhen
Brandywine (Baraduin) – Brandywein
Brown Lands – Braune Lande
Buck Hill - Bockberg

Cracks of Doom – Schicksalsklüfte

Deeping-coomb - Klammtal
Deeping Stream – Klammbach
Deeping Wall – Klammwall
Dimrill Dale (Azanulbizar/Nanduhirion) – Schattenbachtal
Dimrill Stair – Schattenbachsteig
Dimrill Gate – Schattenbachtor

Ettendales – Ettentäler
Ettenmoors – Ettenöden
Evermind (Simbelmyne) - Immertreu

Ford of Bruinen – Bruinenfurt
Ford of Isen - Isenfurten

Gap of Rohan – Pforte von Rohan
Gate Stream (Sirannon) - Torbach
Gladden Fields – Schwertelfelder
Greyflood - Greyflood

Helm’s Deep – Helms Klamm
Helm’s Dike – Helms Damm
High Hay – Hoher Hag
Hoarwell (Mitheithel) - Weißquell

Limelight - Limklar
Lonely Mountain – Einsamer Berg
Longbottomleaf - Langgrundblatt
Loudwater - Lautwasser

Midgewater Marshes – Mückenwassermoore
Mirromere (Kheled-zaram) - Spiegelsee
Misty Mountains – Nebelberge
Mount Doom (Orodruin) – Schicksalsberg

Redhorn Gate - Rothorntor

Silverlode (Kibil-nala/Celebrant) – Silberlauf
Stair Fall - Stufenfall
Stockbrook – Stockbach

Watchwood - Wachtwald
Water – Wasser
Weathertop (Amon Sul) – Wetterspitze
White Mountain (Ered Nimrais) – Weißes Gebirge
Withywindle – Weidenwinde

other things - andere Sachen
Stars - Sterne
Netted Stars (Remmirath) - Siebengestirn
Sickle - Sichel
Swordsman of the Sky (Menelvagor) - Schwertkämpfer

Arms - Waffen
Sting - Stich

Towers - Türme
Minas Anor (Tower of the Setting Sun) - Minas Anor (Turm der Sinkenden Sonne)
Minas Ithil (Tower of the Rising Moon) - Minas Ithil (Turm des Aufgehenden Mondes)
Minas Morgul (Tower of Sorcery) - Minas Morgul (Turm der Hexerei)
Minas Tirith (Tower of Guard) - Minas Tirith (Wachtturm)
Orthanc (Mount Fang/Cunning Mind) - Orthanc (Gabelberg/Listiger Sinn)













Last edited by Semiramis on Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Different translations!

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Jan 13, 2012 2:35 pm

Thanks for posting this Sem- I find it easier to read here too.

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Re: Different translations!

Post by Semiramis on Fri Jan 13, 2012 2:44 pm

No problem Wink
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Re: Different translations!

Post by Ringdrotten on Fri Jan 13, 2012 3:54 pm

Amarië wrote:
And boy, I had no idea how messed up the Swedish translation was, it is too bad the article is written in Norwegian. But among the smaller mistakes is that Luthien is BLOND!
---->Read it here, fellow Scandinavians! <----

Jesus... the first Norwegian translation is pretty crappy too, and by the sound of it, similar to that Swedish one in many ways, but hardly that bad. And what an a** that translator must have been. He and Tolkien didn't agree, so he wrote this...

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Re: Different translations!

Post by Norc on Fri Jan 13, 2012 4:40 pm

Ringdrotten wrote:
Amarië wrote:
And boy, I had no idea how messed up the Swedish translation was, it is too bad the article is written in Norwegian. But among the smaller mistakes is that Luthien is BLOND!
---->Read it here, fellow Scandinavians! <----

Jesus... the first Norwegian translation is pretty crappy too, and by the sound of it, similar to that Swedish one in many ways, but hardly that bad. And what an a** that translator must have been. He and Tolkien didn't agree, so he wrote this...
yes, a real egoistical asshole... how imensly unrespecable can one be! omg.. was so annyoed that I had to read to my mom.. okay, I sound like a child now LOL, but she was the only one home and I had to share it with her. omg... sad all these english speaking fellows here cant read this and understand why we are so.. so.. I don't know the word for what I feel about this.. angry? shocked? well well..

heading off to eat some mølje Smile nam! looking forward! mølje-season!! FTW!
take care! I will be so immensly full of food later I wount come back! Very Happy
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Re: Different translations!

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Jan 13, 2012 5:30 pm

Bunged the article through google translate- which throws up all new translating problems of its own!

How not translate LOTR
During a Tolkien-festival in Sweden, I managed to make me the first volume of Ake Ohlmarks' translation of The Lord of the Rings (LOTR). This translation is almost notorious, and for good reason.

Title sheet nagging at me: J.R.R. Tolkien: Sagan of the Ring, till svenska of Ake Ohlmarks. I wonder what was so wrong with the title Ringarnas Lord? Runes and alveskriften which will be on the title page, apparently printed with invisible ink here. Well, that's just jump into it. From what follows, the reader may get the impression that I must have turned the whole translation and compared it with the original word for word. It is unfortunately not the case. The following is the result of some random spot checks.
Misunderstood and / or distorted name
Let us warm up with some småpirk, if the reader thinks that I am the pure intellectuals, I can promise that we will soon get to juicier matters. Ohlmarks feel little obligation to Tolkien's original spellings. He drops the dots ° above certain vowels, eg. has Tintallë of Galadriel lament become Tint All. This could be forgiven, given that the dots would only tell British readers that e at the end of words are not silent, a Swedish information readers need as little as Norwegian. Much worse is it to excuse Ohlmarks start forsvenske spelling of even Elvish name. Arwen is no further renamed to Heritage. On page 238 is Elwing likewise Elving, and in the name Lúthien omitted accent. On the other hand, appears a new accent in the name Fanúilos. Tolkien thought it fared with Fanuilos.

But this is not the most serious. Slightly worse is it when Ohlmarks throw out fairly central concept of Hobbits and replaces it with Hobert. The word Hobbit, he believed, would make Swedish readers to think about biblical words Ammonit, and it was not good. It was not so very willingly Tolkien agreed to this change, but in correspondence with Ohlmarks he apparently bent off. Ohlmarks wrote to Tolkien in Swedish - not just a demonstration of his knowledge of English - and instructed him about the hispanic devious devices. "The impression Remains," wrote Tolkien to Rayner Unwin, "that Dr Ohlmarks is a conceited person, less competent than charming Max Schuchart [the Dutch translator], though he Thinks much better of himself. In the course of historical letter he lectures me on the character of the Swedish language and its antipathy two borrowing foreign words (a matter Which Seems beside the point), a procedure made all the more ridiculous by the language of historical letter, more than 1 / 3 of Which consister of 'loan- words' from Germantown, French, and Latin, thriller genre being a good specimen of good old pure Swedish. " (Letters, p. 263) About Tolkien bent when it came to "hobene" so we can be certain that he did not endorse any of Ohlmarks other name interpretations.

Take the name Rivendell. Having founded in many, many seconds Ohlmarks concludes that the rake certainly has something to do with the river, as he translates "Vattnadal"! Actually, hang the demolished along with the tear; Tolkien think of a rift-valley, including Rivendell in Høverstads Norwegian translation. Ford of Bruins is to Björnavad (yes, it's a B, an R and N in both words, so pyttsan ...) When Ohlmarks touch Elvish name, he manages not to keep the fingers of the dish. Time and again he tries to be "meaningful" in them, and since he of course can not Sindarin, this is the very pureste guesses with an error rate of 100%. I scissors from the map above book: Harlond (Sindarin: "Sørhavn")> "Harland." Dagorlad (Sindarin: "Battle Box")> "Dagorland". Gulf of Lhûn "Lunas bay or Månbukten" (Tolkien had some different ideas about what lhûn be mean, but it has certainly absolutely nothing to do with "Luna" as a name on the moon!). Although English names can not Ohlmarks get translated correctly. Gladden Fields (Sword Lily ridges) becomes "Ljusa slätterna". And how Onodló (Entwash) was to "Slamm flood," I dare not even guess about.

A special case is the river named Brandywine, which is Hobbit's humorous distortion of the Elvish Baranduin. Ohlmarks call Brandywine for "Vinfloden" and thereby destroy this point (p. 256). IA Tolkien Compass p. 180 Tolkien points out that the obvious translation would Brännavin; he finds thus a Swedish translation as the native Ohlmarks not thought of! Our Norwegian version has also the brandy.

From A Tolkien Compass I know how Ohlmarks translated Shelob: Honmonstret. "Rather feeble," was Tolkien's comment (p. 172).
Ohlmarks gave and Ohlmarks took, blessed be Ohlmarks' names
Our translator does not feel clean rare that he can bring Tolkien's text somewhat, and he contributes generously. As if to compensate for this, it happens that he loses weight the text a bit, although I NOK think it is accidental.

In section A Knife in the Dark tells Aragorn about Beren and Lúthien, "Together They Passed through great dangers, and cast down even the Great Enemy from His Throne, and overtook from historical iron crown one of the three Silmarils." Ohlmarks thought apparently that was too small with only one silmaril: "First Story Tilsammans the sedan genome thousand faror, tills the störtat enemy från his throne och från his järnkrona brutit unloading the three Silmarilerna." (Page 238) And it would obviously be too scary if Ohlmarks actually had translated "Great" in "the Great Enemy."

But that said, our translator can omit, so he can add. Shortly afterwards occurs the words "The Wolf That came from the gates of Angband", as in Ohlmarks has become "Varg the ohygglige, who came från country wide Angbands gates." He has thus supplemented Tolkien hopelessly incomplete text with "the ohygglige" and "country wide". We scissors a few more examples of how Ohlmarks is very good at getting the words Tolkien forgot: "The hall of Elrond's house was filled with people"> "Gilleshallen of Elrond house was allowed bristningsgränsen fylld with people" (p. 274). "Come with me!" > "Portfolio with me now!" (P. 418, capitalization in original). "Fair were the many-pillared halls of Khazad-dum in Elder Days before the fall of mighty kings beneath the stone"> "Under Bart Sköna was Khazad-dûms pelarhallar in ages future days within the power of kung case och charge till vila in stone" ( p. 422). "The Land of Shadow"> "skuggornas och death country" (p. 483). "There sat, side by side, Celeborn and Galadriel"> "Bredvid varandra sat Celeborn Galadriel och, och page kungapar country" (p. 420; Galadriel called incessantly "Drottning" in Ohlmarks' text).

Note also how the two sentences Tolkien smooth can be to four sentences Ohlmarks - and even these statements are fairly oppfetet in relation to the original: "Frodo was now safe in the Last Homely House east of the Sea. That house was, as Bilbo HAD long ago reported, 'a perfect house, Whether you like food or sleep, or story-counting or singing, or just sitting and thinking best, or a pleasant mixture of Them All'. " > "Frodo befann is now in Elrond palate [sic], as Bilbo a gång long sedan little ironic kallat 'the last little torftiga backstugan' Ostersund about the sea. För back further quote Bilbo, it was' a perfect house, Dar installation might have sina önskningar uppfylda real time which tastes the way dispensed. ' Mon Fick the läckraste food och dryck, Dar took Lugné rum for those who would vila or meditate in ensam rest. Där found Sånga och historieberättare the föredrog as such, or you could choose a TRIVSAM mix of all this. " (Page 272) But for all Ohlmarks have tværet the text, so he could not translate the "safe" in the "Frodo was now safe."

Metaphorical expressions are often cut up and gets his bare opinion revealed: "We are sitting in a fortress. Outside it is getting dark." > "We are in a Fortress, but utanför murarna is pheasant in wait" (p. 273). Ohlmarks probably thought that if he came to helping, it would fool the reader believe that it is simply held on to dim outside.

When Ohlmarks hums away with its "explanatory" extensions of Tolkien's text, it is obviously only a matter of time before he demonstrates his vankunne and write something completely wrong. Blunder occurs on page 449: "Varda is the name of That Lady WHOM the Elves in These countries of exile name Elbereth." > "Varda är the name, the elves in the countries refugees ge ate Elbereth, Drottning of Västerness." No, Ake, no and no again! Vests Ness is Númenor, you understand, not Valinor as you think. Read what you have translated on page 238: "... Númenor significant Västerness." No, there's no time to say that Varda in the capacity of the Goddess is the queen of the world, including Númenor. At the time LOTR takes place, has Númenor fact been safely placed in the god of the sea Ulmo kingdom for over three thousand years!

Ohlmarks falls completely in the name of the North Ness. He put it here and there, without being bound by such absurd claim that there actually will be Westerville Nesse in English. The confusion surrounding Númenor / Valinor persists. During the council meeting Elrond recalls Mon the White tree in Minas Tirith: "There in the courts of the King Grew a white tree, from the seed That Isildur Brought over the deep waters, and the seed of That tree before came from Eressëa, and before That out of the Uttermost West in the Day before days When the world was young. " > "In konungens Trädgård växte a silverträd that ympats från the bulkhead, Isildur brought with him over the deep garden. Bulkhead dispensed in turn ympats från Eressëas vitamins forests [sic], uppvuxna watch the front, which resulted från the utmost Västerness a gång in tiderne början. " People opposed to Ohlmarks know what the North Ness in fact, be out of this come to the following conclusion: the White Tree was originally on Númenor, and from it extracted Mon seeds and planted white woods (!) On Eressëa, and from there taken Isildur a shot that he took with him to Middle-earth. I had somehow got it into me that it was the evil númenoréerne who invaded the blessed kingdom, and that alvevenner that Elendil and Isildur took the distance from Ar-Pharazôns aggression, but here Ohlmarks new information to contribute!

Otherwise, I reserve my right to argue that "a gång in tiderne början" like something vaguely compared with "in the Day before days When the world was young." But Ohlmarks well of course nothing about Laurelin and Telperion that gave the world light all the time before the sun and moon were created.
Gjendiktning
Let us make a small digression before we look at how Ohlmarks has been translated poems in LOTR. One time I came across a little yellow paperback in a bookstore, it was with a bunch of other books that had not been sold and now went to the bargain price: Nostradamus profetior, tolkade and with inledning och Comment by Ake Ohlmarks. I paid nineteen dollars and took it with me.

Nostradamus put forward their mildly dark predictions in the form of so-called "kvatrainer" little poem of four lines. All these have Ohlmarks (allegedly) translated and given to low in Swedish. One of them reads as follows (p. 198):

Year nittonhundranittios sjunde month
från heaven command shell a skräckstor kung:
in Angoulème he uppstå shell förhånad:
result that after March Reger heavy.

This interprets Ohlmarks follows (p. 200): "Note. The exakta dating to July 1990. Tydligen shell Henry V Gora's first attempt in Angouleme, but allowed a början bara scorn." (Can anyone see that Fabel publishers printed it in 1993, when the prophecy had already failed?) The problem is that Nostradamus' original text did not have the year 1990, but mil neuf CEN Nonant neuf, that is 1999! Ohlmarks has obviously changed the 1999 to 1990 only because the latter was fit with the rhythm of his Swedish gjendiktning! Yet he believes that his gjendiktning should have exactly the same authority as the original, and it is re-writing he based his interpretation on. He also says that "Henry V" is the beginning "bara scorn," but the word "förhånad" is entered in the text only because Ohlmarks needed a rhyme for "month": It has no counterpart in the original. A straightforward translation of Nostradamus 'dark text, without regard to the French rhymes are gone, goes something like this: "[In] the year 1999, seven months, it will of heaven be a great horror of kings, to revive the Mongols' great king. Before and after the reigns in March with great success. " Now there was not anything like that in 1999 either, but let the Old Nossen be allowed to make their own mistakes, Ake!

After this test of Ohlmarks' integrity which remains a poet, we have misgivings when it comes to his translations of poems in LOTR. The most common problem is that normal that he thinks he knows a lot of things that he absolutely does not know. He can bring himself to write stuff that does not fit into Tolkien's world. A simple example: In the song about the dwarf's progenitor Durin is a line that goes: "A king he was Wed Carven throne ..." Although we find ourselves in a world where "olifanter" or mûmakil is so rare that people can discuss whether they exist - Sam is stunned when he actually sees one - disregard not Ohlmarks decided to re-invent the line thus: "A kung on throne of ivory ... " (P. 377)

We have also Bilbo's poem about Eärendil - how he built his ships Arvernien and set out to Valinor to speak alvers and human case for the elections. It begins:

Eärendil was a mariner
That tarried in Arvernien;
he built a boat of timber felled
in Nimbrethil two journey in.

It begins, however NOT like this:

Eärendil, a sjöman stark,
beach was set in Arvernien.
In Nimbrethil a Timmer bark
he byggt, again take the hem ladder.

Hah! Eärendil stranded in Arvernien? Eärendil built a ship to take them home again - to Valinor?! Ohlmarks manages to misunderstand everything, and the translation is based on his misunderstanding. In another context, namely when Ohlmarks invented a whole new biography of Tolkien, observing our hero that "O. is ever ready to Assumar intimate knowledge That he ha not got" (Letters, p. 306). There was detail Tolkien's life, and it came to details in Tolkien's world.

Ohlmarks feel clearly that everything, absolutely everything, can be accepted if it is a matter of saving a rhyme. Just look at a few more lines from Eärendil-song: "He overcame unto the timeless halls / WHERE shining fall the count less years, / and endless Reigns the Elder King / in Ilmarinen Wed Mountain sheer." > "He was allowed Andean Future Hall / Dar endlos skrimrar target vessel power / Där ages konung rancid shell / i Ilmarinen in the eternal dream." Eternal dream? Sitting Manwë on Taniquetil and only dreaming that he reigns?

Tolkien thought that Lúthien had raven-black hair (just like his own dear Edith). This is said explicitly in The Lays of Beleriand p. 155, and the Silmarillion p. 176 is also spoken about how her tissue a dark mantle of her hair. When Aragorn singing about Beren and Lúthien in section A Knife in the Dark, suggested likewise black hair with phrases like "here hairlike shadow follo wing" and "As Beren looked into here eyes Within the shadows of this hair." Not so with Ohlmarks! A Scandinavian blonde should be: "Tinuviel [sic, not Tinúviel] his dance Där step ... with stjärnlys in her golden hair" and "och Beren sjönk to två Ogone reason, as skuggades won the golden hair" (p. 235 , 237).

But the real arch-the breach in connection with gjendiktning occurs when we come to Galadriel lament at the end of the chapter Farewell to Lorien (which here becomes "Farväl to Lothlórien" - yes, Ake, it is terribly confusing to operate with both a complete and a shortened form of a name, right?) Here Tolkien first Quenya text of the song, which is set up as a poem, which he immediately follows up with a straightforward prose translation: "Ah! golden fall the leaves in the wind, long years number less as the wings of trees! The long years garden Passed as swift drafts of the sweet mead ... " etc.

What makes it Ohlmarks? Well, after writing of the Elvish text (with only two to three errors) he gives himself to produce a frosted Swedish gjendiktning from Tolkien's prose translation! Of course, we can only say adjøss to all exact agreement between Quenya text and the Swedish "translation":

O, similar guldblad vortex law for wind,
artery Årø trades such as rings,
years have svunnit like a stench in kind,
similar to vitamins mead Starka Vingar ...

The Swedish Elvish research was not just a flying start if the basis of this trying to find the meaning of each Quenya word! Far down the Ohlmarks' black soul was perhaps a hint of guilt. But the result was only an even more serious inaccuracy, such as an apology for his attempt "gjendiktning" shoot him in the following between the Quenya text and the alleged translation: "Och interpretation of this Sånga so ofullkomlig it now was, came back lyda so have ... " The entire book is "ofullkomlig" when the translator can get to stuff into the text all the sentences that do not have the slightest basis in the original. It tramples Ohlmarks far beyond the translator's frames and elevates itself to a kind of editor, not to mention co-author. Perhaps Tolkien would have liked to be consulted before Ohlmarks began to revise LOTR after his own head.

If the above "re-writing" at least had some connection with Tolkien's words, then commit Ohlmarks NOK a kjempebommert towards the end of the song. Tolkien's text reads: "Now lost, lost two Those from the East is Valimar. Farewell! Maybe thou shalt find Valimar. Maybe even thou shalt find it." - Which in Ohlmarks becomes

... Förlorad är hilt, är Valimar
For us, as Østern in järngrepp have.
Farväl! Kanhända find his shawl,
Valimars! Maybe your väg down hooks,
perhaps you will find VAD själv you search!

How the hell did "hilt" from? Valimar is no hero, there is no person at all - it's a place in the blessed kingdom! Here there is no excuse. About Ohlmarks not had access to the Silmarillion so he could read about Val (i) in March where, as he had at least Tolkien's text directly to the eyes, "Maybe thou shalt find it" - not him! But Ohlmarks' translation of this line introduces not only the pronoun "his", he can damn well to assign Valimar a soul too! Yes, Ake, you may wish to complain about 'ofullkomlig interpretation', but it is you who bear full responsibility for it. How could you just decide to make a rhyme Swedish edition of Tolkien's prose translation of the Elvish text? Were there too few poems in the book, did you?
Various snacks
Dear reader, did you know that Boromir had been in direct contact with Sauron, and that it was the enemy even he had heard of the Ring? Not there? Just read: "Chase has heard of the big ring from him, notification names none dare name." (Page 293) I can not completely rule out that this is theoretically a possible understanding of the "I have heard of the Great Ring of heaven That we do not name", but it is perhaps not the most likely interpretation, it is well, Ake?

A mistake is almost unbelievable, "High Elves" becomes "höglandsalver"! "The High-Elven tongue" is likewise "höglandsalvernas language" (p. 108-109). At last it went though a little light out for our translation: On page 413 referred to the correct "högalverna". But to go back and correct the past mistakes translations - no, it was too tråkigt!

Forget everything you've read about Cuiviénen in the Silmarillion. It was in Lorien elves occurred: "This är Alvern urhem in Medievärlden." (Page 418, translated from "here is the heart of Elvendom on earth".)

The word Orc, Orcs do not know Ohlmarks really know what to do with. It was not in the English dictionary, his! At first he tries to both "odjur" (p. 66) and "monster" (p. 79, 82), but gradually it becomes "orcher", as spelled.

The sindarinske text on the port of Moria introduces Tolkien with the following words: "Here is typewritten in the Fëanorian characters According to the mode of Beleriand: Ennyn Durin Aran Moria ..." This was too technical and difficult for Ohlmarks: "Do stand with letters brukades of Alvern in Western Midgaard under Äldsta time ..." What is said is not directly wrong, but it is not quite the same, either.

The title of the chapter "Three is company" is here translated into LATIN: Tres faciunt Collegium! Okay, so there is such a Latin proverb, and maybe it even was saying Tolkien was thinking when he named chapter. He translated the words into English first. And instead of reversing the operation would have translated it into Swedish, Ake. That is what you paid for, not to brief with what you had to have classical training.

When Sauron's eye appear in mirrors Galadriel, Tolkien describes it thus: "The Eye was rimmed with four ... and the black slit of its pupil opened on a pit, a window into nothing." -Into Nothing? think Ohlmarks. Nothing? Too dvaskt! But this we fix the light: "... och pupil black knight was like a schakt tions till hell." (Page 432)

On the whole there has been a major sulfur preacher lost in Ohlmarks: "Frodo gazed fixedly at the red embers on the hearth, until They filled all the historical vision, and he seemed to Be looking down into Profound wells of fire." > "Frodo stirrade cared for in the eldhärdens glow, as if he saw the Visions of djävulska flammor in hell deepest källor" (page 88).
"Colorful" translation
In some places the translation, if not directly wrong, then at least very colorful. Perhaps we should just say colorful, but simply garish.

Tolkien nyoppfunne words Halfling seems very, well, stimulating the expression of Ohlmarks. At first he tries to right NOK with little elegant translations as "halvlängdsmann" (p. 297). But when Boromir threaten Frodo, it takes really of: "The only plan That is proposed to us Is that a Halfling Hubble blindly walk into Mordor ... if any mortals garden claim to the Ring, it is the men of Númenor, and not Halflings ... I am too strong for you, Halfling ... Curse you and all halflings ...!" > "It still plan föreslagits us är att a ynkling small halvlängdsfigur blint to trudge into Mordor ... Is there några dödliga that resa legitimate claim to the ring, so är the Númenors män, United halvlängssmåttingarna! ... Jag är för stark för dej little puttefnask! ... Förbannad last you och alla halvputtefnaskar! " -Page 472-473.

When Gandalf arrived with their fireworks, marked with his initial G, exclaimed hobbit-children 'G for Grand! " This will Ohlmarks to "G significant grandiose" in capital letters as shown here. Grandiose? Grandiose? Grandiose fireworks? Njaaaaa .... Njeeeeeii ....
Dear neighbors: Look to Norway!
Let us approach a conclusion: Ohlmarks' translation is generally accurate and are characterized by the fact that he did not understand Tolkien's world, but think he understands much that is erroneous (eg. When he seems to think that Valinor / The outer West is the same as Númenor / North Ness). To Ohlmarks' defense should be said that he did not have access to Silmarillion, and thus lacked much of the background, but it should be calling for greater caution in the translation. When I looked a little in his sad books under Nordic Tolkien Festival in the year before last, I read that his enthusiasm for The Lord of the Rings had risen while he translated the work. In other words, he had not even read the book before he began to translate! He translated as he read it for the first time! And you see then also how his understanding in some cases increased during reading: The first few times he came across the word "High Elves" he could not get any better sense than "höglandsalver" out of it, but since he realized that it simply be translated "högalver". But it's even more outrageous that he went back and corrected the earlier occurrences of the word.

In addition to the examples of questionable fidelity which I have listed above are countless examples that are not as "fun", but still pulls down. Very often differ Ohlmarks from what I would call it straightforward and obvious translation of the English words, although the meaning NOK is about the same. He takes pride in fiddling around with the expression, turning on the twists and turns, add a little here and subtract a little there. The result has often ninety percent the same meaning as the original, but no more than ninety percent. Sometimes Ohlmarks' tampering resulting in expressions that are actually quite fun, so that when force Rings called "death-and livsfarliga", but this is still one of the fixed translation of "perilous". A translator is not permitted to begin to "improve" and "complement" the original to the point that Ohlmarks do it. The man had, as Tolkien observed, a bulging ego and considered himself as the author's peers, as though he was excited about LOTR, he had little respect for the work's integrity.

So what should the poor Swedes do? Well, what did we Norwegians?

The first Norwegian translation of The Lord of the Rings came in 1973-75. The publisher called time, the translator named Nils Werenskiold and the product was called The War of the Ring. It is certainly a bad sign when the translator starts to tamper with the title and not just translate it to the equivalent of "Lord of the Rings". To quote Arbeiderbladet of 4 January 1992, reprinted in Angerthas 30, got the translation "Norwegian Tolkien fans to invoke all of Sauron's curses of publishing and translation." I have hardly seen War of the Ring and will not kill the unseen, but apparently it was not good. What did the publisher? They took courage, hired a new translator - Torstein Bugge Høverstad - and got all the thousand-page Lord of the Rings translated again, under the title Lord of the Rings. This edition was the most successful, and it is, and is the Norwegian standard edition. (Personally, I can control my enthusiasm for spelling "Gandalf", but, but ...) Since we have also received new Norwegian edition of The Hobbit, since the original Hobbit was not feeling well, either.

So, dear sister nation, look to Norway! Could we, so can you. Dispose of all Sagan of the Ring and get a competent (if not serious) translates to portray RINGARNAS LORD: a faithful representation where Hobbits and "Hobert" moves through a landscape free of "Vattnadaler" and "Månbukter" where Arwen it says her name, and where høyalver not elves from the highlands. It is the only sensible one could do. Swedish Tolkien fans deserve something better than a uttværet, grossly inaccurate and misleading translation that Sagan of the Ring.

Update: Since I wrote the above, the Swedes have seen the light and really prepared Ringarnas master, translated by Erik Anderson! RIP, Ohlmarks!

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Re: Different translations!

Post by Norc on Fri Jan 13, 2012 5:36 pm

well, that's terrible.. google translate -.-" why not ask me to translate it...? or the other scandinavians here Smile
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Re: Different translations!

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Jan 13, 2012 5:38 pm

I thought I'd save you the trouble- besides whilst yours would undoubtable be more accurate it wouldn't be as funny in a bad way. Very Happy

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Re: Different translations!

Post by Amarië on Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:59 am

Hopefully the poor translation doesn't hide how poor the translation really is. Wink

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Re: Different translations!

Post by Norc on Sun Jan 15, 2012 1:59 pm

good point Amarië, I suppose only us native speakers will in the end fully understand how terribly bad the translation is Wink
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Re: Different translations!

Post by chris63 on Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:46 pm

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