Kony 2012

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Kony 2012

Post by Norc on Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:45 pm

I'm not going to say anything, just watch it .

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Re: Kony 2012

Post by Mrs Figg on Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:23 pm

Thanks Norc

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Re: Kony 2012

Post by Eldorion on Thu Mar 08, 2012 5:04 pm

I respect Invisible Children's goals but I would urge people to read up a little more about the situation and the organization before rushing off to support them, especially if you weren't aware of Joseph Kony before now.

http://jezebel.com/5891269/think-twice-before-donating-to-kony-2012-the-meme-du-jour

http://justiceinconflict.org/2012/03/07/taking-kony-2012-down-a-notch/

http://africasacountry.com/2012/03/07/phony-2012-risible-children/

I'm not trying to rain on anyone's day and I'm sure that the people behind Invisible Children really do want to make a positive difference, but whether or not they actually are going to is another question. Just something to think about after watching a very slickly-made video. study
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Re: Kony 2012

Post by Mrs Figg on Thu Mar 08, 2012 5:32 pm

I agree the film is slickly made, and it it hadnt been or if it had been boring I probably wouldnt now know who Kony is, because until I had seen the video I had never heard of him. So maybe for all its 'faults' the video has done its job of making people aware of the terrible price the child soldiers pay if nothing else its recognition of the problem, its got people discussing and arguing so thats a positive surely?

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Re: Kony 2012

Post by Norc on Thu Mar 08, 2012 5:35 pm

thank you, Eldo, for posting these links. I didn't write anything when I posted the video, because I like to choose my stand when I know more. I had just seen the movie and only the movie, but I was aware that there were some different opinions about this movie. to me the movie is, well, it does rais awarness, but it is also very much just one point of view. I totally agree, and I believe most people do, that Kony should be arrested and peoples awarness do help. But.. nah.. I don't know. Everything that grows big on the internett (like this video) should always be taken with a pinch of salt (is that even an expression?) I don't want to say anymore, I have to read those articles more throughly Wink but again, thanks for posting them, I was hoping for some kind of discussion about this matter.

and yeah, I am thinking of getting that kit x) cause it is embarassing that a crime like that has been going on for so many years without anyone stopping him (not saying no one has tried) . but just thinking of getting it, because it does remind me a bit of well.. propaganda, all this about hope and the world standing together.. hmm.. it's big words which touches every heart but... it's a bit one sided.
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Re: Kony 2012

Post by Norc on Thu Mar 08, 2012 5:40 pm

I guess slicky made videos hit home Smile and that's the way to go if one want people to be aware if this. we want to belong and have a common goal or purpose or opinion (just like this forum LOL) and that video is like "hey! we are one! let's do this!" not nesceserally a bad thing, but not nesceserally good thing either.
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Re: Kony 2012

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:54 pm

Well that was as manapulative and questionable a bit of film as I have seen in a while!
And sorry but I have a inherent distrust of poeple who use their children in such a public way.

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Re: Kony 2012

Post by Norc on Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:28 pm

yeah.. but his son was cute though Wink
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Re: Kony 2012

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:29 pm

Mad

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Re: Kony 2012

Post by Ally on Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:41 pm

I actually read the tumblr post before watching the video, as I'd been away from a computer for a few days. The finance problem isn't really a problem of great concern, I bet there are many more charities who spend equally as much on 'fundraising promotion', admin and other stuff. 32% to the cause seems to be the quoted figure, but I've also seen 52% floated about, so meh. It states on their website that their main goal is awareness, and the people who donated before the video was released will surely realize without these donations this worldwide movement would not have been able to grow.

Another interesting article about how Kony isn't even Uganda's main problem: http://ilto.wordpress.com/2006/11/02/the-visible-problem-with-invisible-children/

As to the facts about IC support of a corrupt Ugandan army, that's worrying. However, there doesn't seem to be much in the way of facts or evidence on the internet, so I'm not sure what to make of it. I'm sure money can drift down into the wrong hands, however hard any charity in Africa works. Hopefully this charity is also helping children on a humanitarian level too, though there main aim seems to be the capture of Kony. Don't get me wrong, he deserves to face justice, and hopefully this awareness will help towards his capture, but money does need to be pumped into other aspects of Uganda.

IC is obviously not the perfect charity, but I'm in the belief that this awareness will highlight the other issues that these African countries face. I sometimes feel that the factor of natural disasters of Africa often overshadow the inhumane groups that plague Africa, and it's other problems, as they sadly occur so often. And especially with all the civil unrest across the Middle East in past months, before this video, Africa wasn't at the forefront of international priorities. There are serious problems there, but awareness is surely the first step to change. So well done Invisible Children, for that at least. Smile



Last edited by Ally on Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:46 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Kony 2012

Post by Ally on Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:47 pm

Oh, and btw, I'd love to have a son like Gavin from the kony video, what a lad! Very Happy

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Re: Kony 2012

Post by Mrs Figg on Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:40 pm

I totally agree with you Ally, African problems seem to be last on peoples agenda because as you said, there are so many emergencies, I think people get 'Africa fatigue' and stop caring. At least these people are getting debate started. I dont really care if its manipulative or if he used his kid, it worked, it was effective, it got people talking about Africa again.

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Re: Kony 2012

Post by Orwell on Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:54 pm

{{{{{With the new vid idea I put forward, Petty, can you make sure you put in a cute little boy in it - called Gavin maybe? - you know, to interest the ladies! Very Happy }}}}}

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Re: Kony 2012

Post by Eldorion on Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:02 pm

Mrs Figg wrote:I agree the film is slickly made, and it it hadnt been or if it had been boring I probably wouldnt now know who Kony is, because until I had seen the video I had never heard of him. So maybe for all its 'faults' the video has done its job of making people aware of the terrible price the child soldiers pay if nothing else its recognition of the problem, its got people discussing and arguing so thats a positive surely?

I was discussing this on Facebook this morning but I was in a bit of a hurry earlier so I didn't have time to say as much on here as I probably should have. I agree that it's a positive that people are more knowledgeable about this topic and that it's something people are discussing. I think it's been a number of years Kony has been quite as anonymous as the video made him out to be, but clearly he is/was mostly unknown in the west. However, the situation in Uganda has improved significantly and Kony's forces are far, far smaller than the video suggests. I think that the people behind Invisible Children have good intentions and raising awareness is certainly an important part of activism. So I respect what they've accomplished with regards to that. What I don't respect, though, is the misleading information that they are spreading. Raising awareness is only good if the group is spreading accurate and meaningful information.

I also take issue with the way in which they try to cast Kony as a diabolical, and more importantly singular, example of evil. He is certainly a horrible human being and the world would be a better place with him behind bars. However, he is hardly the only warlord causing pain and suffering, but the focus on him (and the ridiculously overblown Hitler comparisons) lead to tunnel vision and ignoring the crimes of others. The Ugandan government have already been mentioned in this thread, but perhaps more worrying to me is Invisible Children's support for the Sudan People's Liberation Army, a group accused of rape and looting.

Ally mentioned the flow of money issue, and I'll admit that I wasn't thinking primarily of this and I don't know how much of Invisible Children's funds are going to corrupt and/or violent organizations in Africa. Regardless, IC is encouraging these groups while discouraging anyone else from taking action against them (while also posing for photo ops, all the while talking about building an "army for peace"). On top of this, they are beating the drums for U.S. military intervention in the area. I am not opposed to military intervention in all cases, but in this case, however, IC's argument for military action is founded on a profound misrepresentation of reality, and that deeply disturbs me (the second link in my first post goes into a fair bit of detail about the trickiness of military action in Uganda).

I've tried not to be unfair to the group simply because I'm annoyed by the smug, Western-centric attitude the video took, but I think there's more than enough to give pause about the group. Like I said, I'm sure they have good intentions and raising awareness is a plus. If people are encouraged to go out and learn more about Kony and Uganda then that's wonderful. However, I have a hard time praising a group that isn't bothering to present an accurate picture themselves. That said, please note that this is not meant as a criticism of anyone on this forum or elsewhere who likes Invisible Children or has supported them.
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Re: Kony 2012

Post by Eldorion on Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:12 pm

Norc wrote:thank you, Eldo, for posting these links. I didn't write anything when I posted the video, because I like to choose my stand when I know more. I had just seen the movie and only the movie, but I was aware that there were some different opinions about this movie. to me the movie is, well, it does rais awarness, but it is also very much just one point of view.

I think it's good to be able to look at multiple sides, so I respect that. Smile The video has been seen more than 50 million times by now, so it's clearly gotten attention, and I agree that's good. Whatever my concerns with the film and with the organization behind it, I think it's great if it gets people interested and encourages them to learn more from various different sources.

and yeah, I am thinking of getting that kit x) cause it is embarassing that a crime like that has been going on for so many years without anyone stopping him (not saying no one has tried) . but just thinking of getting it, because it does remind me a bit of well.. propaganda, all this about hope and the world standing together.. hmm.. it's big words which touches every heart but... it's a bit one sided.

I think propaganda is a good way to describe this video and the mass action they're pushing for. The reality is that action has been taken against Kony and it's been largely successful. The problem is that just "stopping" Kony isn't going to remove the root causes of the conflict. It's also not going to solve the question of what to do with the rest of the LRA. The video takes a somewhat simplistic attitude in implying that killing or capturing Kony will allow all the child soldiers to go home happily. But the reality is that many of the child soldiers, especially those who have grown up in the LRA, are themselves perpetrators of various crimes, including abducting more children. It's a horrible and disgusting situation, but the complexity requires far more nuance than Invisible Children's plan seems to entail.

I think that most everyone can agree that Joseph Kony should be captured and stand trial, but sadly there's a lot more to it than that.
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Re: Kony 2012

Post by Mrs Figg on Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:13 pm

You have good points Eldo, in this world of scams and cynical manipulation for profit, you have to be careful, I wouldnt give them my money as you never know who exactly is getting it, if the information is incorrect then they need to be told to sort things out. It is good that debate has started, however these things come and go and once the fashion for this particular cause is passed I wonder what remains? But on the other hand If it has helped even one kid its worth it. Its very easy to critisize them for being smug westerners and maybe they are, but its surely a flawed but interesting experiment in public awareness.

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Re: Kony 2012

Post by Eldorion on Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:16 pm

Mrs Figg wrote:its surely a flawed but interesting experiment in public awareness.

I absolutely agree. Smile It's a fascinating look at the power of viral media in the information age, and I sincerely hope that the increased awareness will lead to positive change for the people of Central Africa. While I worry that simplistic and hamfisted approaches will be ineffective or even detrimental in the long run, I hope that a greater dialogue will lead people to encourage their governments to take more responsible action. Of course, lasting change will need to come from within Africa itself, but it's good for the rest of the world to be informed as well.
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Re: Kony 2012

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:18 pm

I saw on a facebook page the day after Whitney Houston Died the following -' One Celebrity dies millions mourn'- then a picture of Africa and 'Millions die nobody mourns'.
Simplistic but sadly probably close to the truth. Its the nature of our culture.

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Re: Kony 2012

Post by Eldorion on Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:26 pm

An interesting article about the response to the video from various African writers and activists.

http://boingboing.net/2012/03/08/african-voices-respond-to-hype.html

Most of them mentioned that the video sounded like paternalism and neo-colonialism, which is an accusation I'd seen a few other places as well. Food for thought. study
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Re: Kony 2012

Post by Ally on Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:27 pm

There's a whole wave of 'Kony memes' mocking that culture, but there is definitely potential in the internet fostering empathy. It reminds me of that google ad a few years back, 'the internet's what you make of it!'. Wink As Eldo said, this new model of global interaction is definitely interesting, and I believe a force for good!

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Re: Kony 2012

Post by Eldorion on Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:29 pm

I've read about Kony before, but the memes were actually what first introduced me to the video. I feel like I'm going to hell for laughing at most of them, but I like to think that people can try to use humor to make sense of a horrific situation while also thinking seriously about that situation. Embarassed Laughing
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Re: Kony 2012

Post by Ally on Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:42 pm

Well the really funny ones are those mocking the people on the Kony 2012 bandwagon! It was amazing how many of my friends were closet humanitarians! Haha, but I suppose humour and empathy are both good, as long as it's full of good intention and is well meant!

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Re: Kony 2012

Post by Mrs Figg on Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:10 pm

Its easy to dismiss all the people who support this campaign as naive or worse smug western imperialists etc, but the harsh truth is that us westerners have the leisure time and the dollars to support benevolent causes, it seems like western patronage but its probably more guilt for having so much of everything. I feel guilty for having everything handed to me on a plate, democracy included.

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Re: Kony 2012

Post by Orwell on Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:28 pm

Mrs Figg wrote:Its easy to dismiss all the people who support this campaign as naive or worse smug western imperialists etc, but the harsh truth is that us westerners have the leisure time and the dollars to support benevolent causes, it seems like western patronage but its probably more guilt for having so much of everything. I feel guilty for having everything handed to me on a plate, democracy included.

I agree 99% Mrs Figg --- I only lack the 'guilt' bit - which I assume in Western Imperialists can't be more than 1%. Once we've finished discussing this, we'll surely move onto some other briefly believed in and quickly forgotten cause. Very Happy

(You know, I had enough trouble getting my kids to school, let alone training 'em up as prostitutes and/or soldiers, or to be useful in any other practical profession. Rolling Eyes)

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Re: Kony 2012

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:33 pm

(You know, I had enough trouble getting my kids to school, let alone training 'em up as prostitutes and/or soldiers, or to be useful in any other practical profession. Rolling Eyes ) -Orwell

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