Quantum Physics

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Re: Quantum Physics

Post by halfwise on Tue Apr 11, 2017 5:11 pm

I'm hoping the Europa news coming out on Thursday is more than just a tease.

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Re: Quantum Physics

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:01 pm


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Re: Quantum Physics

Post by halfwise on Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:12 pm

Based on the first minute, 20 minutes of that would be great with a drink and perhaps some Norc-weed.

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Re: Quantum Physics

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:34 pm

{{Need some smarter heads than mine- quantum entanglement- some scientists have extended the furthest this us been tested before by firing one half of the proton at a specially designed satellite then altering the positive/negative of the other half of the pair down here on earth- and it still works instantaneously- so does this prove that in reality there is in fact no distance between objects? scratch Or that there is some sort of as yet unseen invisible connecting strand between the two regardless of distance by which they communicate the others state? scratch And if so why does the distance the information needs to travel appear to take no time at all to do so? scratch }}}

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Re: Quantum Physics

Post by David H on Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:30 am

Halfy can answer this better I'm sure, but although this is long-distance entanglement experiment is incredibly cool, I don't think there's anything that actually exceeds the speed of light.

The key word..."why does the distance the information needs to travel appear to take no time at all to do so?"
Think of it as a slight-of-hand trick where the physicist makes a particle disappear from one hand and instantly pulls it out of your ear with the other hand.

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Re: Quantum Physics

Post by halfwise on Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:14 am

The rule to be tested (derived decades ago by John Bell, so this is known as "Bell's Theorem") is that either
a. Quantum connections can travel faster than light
b. There are hidden variables that can explain the quantum connections
This will take some explanation.

Bell explained the hidden variables by reference to a certain Professor Bertelmann, who was famous for always wearing mismatched socks.  If you raised one pants leg and exposed a blue sock, you knew immediately that the other sock would be pink.  This didn't mean that there was a quantum connection between the socks, because one sock was always blue, the other always pink.  No mystery at all in the connection between Bartelmann's socks.

But if an electron and anti-electron annihilate and produce two oppositely moving photons, one will have spin up, the other spin down (yes, photons have spin, the waves are actually more like corkscrews than simple up and down).  But this is where the great quantum mystery comes in: it doesn't matter which way you point the measuring apparatus, you'll always measure full spin.  The photon can't know which direction you'll measure the spin, so it must assume it when measured.  The spin can't have been pre-existing.  

So there are no hidden variables, the influence travels instantaneously.  But you can't transfer information this way, because the experiment has to wait for the photon to get there first.  You know intellectually that when you measure one photon the other has to be doing the opposite, but since you had to chase that photon down anyway, a fat lot of good that information will do you; you may as well have just attached the message to the photon.

I really don't know anything else that demonstrates this particular quantum weirdness other than spin, and the fact that spin picks its direction based on the apparatus is damn hard to wrap one's head around.  There's simply no good way to explain it.  It pops out of the mathematics and doesn't do the least thing to make itself intuitive.  Nothing but a damn nuisance. Mad

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Re: Quantum Physics

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:21 am

{{{Ummm ok....right, I think....but Halfy surely its more like pulling up the leg seeing the sock is green, saying 'aha the other is therefore pink', then changing the green sock for a pink one and the other leg changes to a green one instantly- how does it know you changed the first leg's sock at all? Mad }}

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Re: Quantum Physics

Post by David H on Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:09 am

{{{ Shocked Don't fall for it Petty! It's the oldest physicist trick in the book!!While he's got you looking at your socks he's really picking you sporran!!! Suspect No }}}

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Re: Quantum Physics

Post by halfwise on Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:36 pm

Petty: you have to accept that if they are quantum socks, not Bertelmann socks, then the sock doesn't take on a color until you lift the pants leg, then they BOTH take on color at the same time.  It's an instantaneous quantum connection that happens at the point of measurement, and after that point the connection is over and things are back to normal.  If you don't like it, ranting and raving doesn't seem to help.

For example if you look at my hand....no, THIS hand, over here.  Don't look at the other hand!  That's right.  So my hand is moving to your left.  Look - this works better if you turn your whole head to the left, not just your eyes.  No, no, don't look back at me, keep your attention to the left, stop glancing at my other.....oh drat it, never mind.  Rolling Eyes

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Re: Quantum Physics

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:37 pm

{{ Hold on- so if you take a pair of socks, and you send the green one to space on a satellite and keep the pink one here- how do you know its the pink one and you have to change it to a green unless you pull up the trouser leg of time and space to see? But if you look your already then too late anyway?!!! Banghead
And why is my sporran lighter!!!!! Halfy!!!! Extremely Crabbit }}}}

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Re: Quantum Physics

Post by halfwise on Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:19 pm

The point is that socks are NOT quantum. But yes, if they happened to be quantum socks and you are wondering whether it changes or not....then as quantum socks you won't know the color until you look. So saying "you send the green one to space" automatically means they are not quantum socks. Once you know, the thing is over. As quantum socks, all you know is they have a 50% chance of being either green or pink. Once you see one is green, the other becomes pink.

And how do we know they aren't already a certain color until you check? Because you have a detector that can only see pink and green, and another than can only see pink and blue, and when you look you either see green or blue (and pink) socks, depending on which detector you use. But you know socks are completely green, blue or pink. Since the socks don't know which detector is coming, they must become green or blue upon observation.

But historically speaking, Bertelmann has blue, not green socks. Somehow in the larger scheme of things that must make a difference.

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Re: Quantum Physics

Post by David H on Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:33 pm

My socks all have black holes Embarassed

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Re: Quantum Physics

Post by halfwise on Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:02 am

That's what keeps your feet stuck to the ground. Nod

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Re: Quantum Physics

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:09 am

{{Mine have a 6 metre exclusion zone around them No }}

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Re: Quantum Physics

Post by David H on Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:05 am

That's what keeps your feet stuck to the ground. Nod

True, but they still suck! Suspect

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Re: Quantum Physics

Post by halfwise on Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:54 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:{{Mine have a 6 metre exclusion zone around them No }}

Between those and the kilt there's a strong argument for pursuing your love life while naked.

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Re: Quantum Physics

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:00 pm

{{That's what I keep telling her! But she insists I wear the whole hazard suit Mad }}}

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