BEREN AND LUTHIEN (THE ADAPTATION)

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Re: BEREN AND LUTHIEN (THE ADAPTATION)

Post by Old Forum on Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:47 am

Tinuviel

I like the idea of the Chanting rather than singing. Arwen does it in FOTR as well. Something like that would seem much more appropriate than singing...
Perhaps... hmmmm. An idea has just struck me. It may not be better, but, here it goes:
There's a narrator. Perhaps Beren himself, speaking in the first person. That way we don't have dialogue, but there isn't akward silence. This way, we can keep the books dialogue and still move the story along. Mainly in the begining. THinking this... what about David Wenham? he played faramir, but he would be a great Beren I think, or narrator (because of 300). Or perhpas Ian McKellen. Someone with that voice that has age and wisdom to it...

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Re: BEREN AND LUTHIEN (THE ADAPTATION)

Post by Old Forum on Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:47 am

Odo Banks

If we decided we needed a voice-over of some kind, perhaps Cate Blanchett might be a good choice. Though I'm not convinced, if done properly, there would be any awkward silences. I think Beren's silence might be a way to enhance the drama of his situation. You know, the loneliness, the desperation, the isolation. We also might have the communicative noises he makes with the "beasts" to give some lighter shading, if of course we were to go that way.

David Wenham certainly has the acting ability to do Beren. Now you mention him, I kind of imagine Beren as a Faramir-like character. Aragorn had elvish blood, but Beren was a mere man, even if a heroic one. Mind you, did all men of Numenorean stock have elvish blood? It's something I bet Eldorion would know.

Odo

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Re: BEREN AND LUTHIEN (THE ADAPTATION)

Post by Old Forum on Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:48 am

Tinuviel

Idea was a strike of BRILLIANCE! I think that's what needed to be said, that idea. But we also must have Gorlims betrayal in the flashbacks. That wil be difficult considering Gorlim tells him in a dream whats happening. That does happen right? so that would be the only set back...
This I feel is the perfect way to tell the beginning story and all of the back ground story!
WE HAVE A START!

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Re: BEREN AND LUTHIEN (THE ADAPTATION)

Post by Old Forum on Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:48 am

Gandalfs Beard

Hmmm!!! Flashbacks within flashbacks and Dreams within dreams have been used to good effect before. Very Postmodern, and Surrealist all at once.

But that aspect could be ambiguous. We would still see Beren talking to an Ethereal Gorlim in a Flashback or Nightmare, which fits with Tolkien's turn of events. The non-reading audience wouldn't necessarily understand that this was a recurring dream, but that could also be remedied by having brief flashes of that dream recurring during Beren's wanderings and Orc Slayings.

And thanks Tinuviel

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Re: BEREN AND LUTHIEN (THE ADAPTATION)

Post by Old Forum on Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:49 am

Gandalfs Beard

Indeed it is the Elven blood that defines Numenoreans.

And I have an idea Idea . How about the film starts with pre-credits with a wordless (but with music) sequence showing the Silmarils being fashioned. Then, after the credits we follow a silent Beren as he kills Orcs and befriends birds and beasts (through the changing seasons as Odo mentions). But the silence is punctuated at points by his nightmares and remembrances of his dying father and the events leading up to his father's death. Then the nightmares begin to be interrupted by ethereal and soothing dreams of Tinuviel. Finally one day he comes across Luthien, and his first word (not in a dream or flashback) is "Tinuviel".

I think that sequence incorporates some of all of our ideas thus far and keeps Tolkien's basic construct of the beginning intact. No voice-over necessary. We can find out more info about the Silmarils when Beren reaches the court of Luthien's father. And the information about the mission that led to Barahir's death would be conveyed in the snippet length nightmares and flashbacks.

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Re: BEREN AND LUTHIEN (THE ADAPTATION)

Post by Old Forum on Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:49 am

Odo Banks

I like the way things are going. We should start doing outlines I reckon.

Opening Sequence (Scene One?)(over basic credits):

Gorlim comes to his deserted village in the trees. Sees light in window. Creeps up and sees his wife. As he watches her in happy disbelief, Orcs jump him. He's dragged off to their camp somewhere in Dorthonion. Some torture (and taunting) goes on. Gorlim resists blabbing, but at last asks about his wife. Orcs give snide looks to each other and take Gorlim before Sauron (who is in a pavillion or similar - can't have him sitting around the camp fire!) Gorlim spills his guts when Sauron (cunningly) suggests Gorlim might "join" his wife. As Sauron walks out to send his Orcs to Barahir's hide-out, he says as aside to his chief torturer-orc: "Take him [Gorlim} to his dear wife - [as aside] but no need to hurry." (As in 'kill Gorlim slowly', or something sinister like that). (NB Gorlim's wife is called Eilenen or similar - sorry about spelling, I've got no access to Tolkien at present!)

Next (Scene Two?):

Show Orcs surrounding Barahir's hideout before first light... The Orc Captain grins evily...

Next (Scene Three?):

We have Beren asleep out in the heather somewhere. He dreams of those crows in the alders by the lake dripping blood. Gorlim approaches across the lake and hears his ghostly confession. Beren leaps up and heads for home in the pre-dawn light. Maybe he could shortly after look across from a heathery height to see the lake and flames rising above the hideout beyond.

(As Beren will hunt those Orcs shortly, I don't think we need to see what happens to Barahir and his men - just the results that Beren discovers. If what he finds is gruesome enough, I think it will be an effective means of showing how evil the Orcs are! This is after all an adult tale!)

Reasonable start - or not?

- Btw I have an idea or two about how we can approach the issue of Beren befriending wild beasts and becoming vegetarian - a pretty good and gruseome reason, I think! - but first things first: your suggestions so far?

Odo

I'm not sure now if we should go with dreams of Luthien. It's not how it is in the book. I think Tolkien puts her in the story in the place and time she needs to be. Save her up, I say!

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Re: BEREN AND LUTHIEN (THE ADAPTATION)

Post by Old Forum on Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:50 am

Tinuviel

I like where this is going...
I do think there should be a prologue about the silmarils and Morgoth and such, and then the gorlim scene. Instead of him telling Beren directly, the events that take place is the dream Beren has. He awakens in the heather to see crows flying toward the camp and smoke above the canopy. He sprints back as fast as he can, possibly a bird or something following him. He reaches the camp and everything is ruined, burned, and bloody Twisted Evil He falls to his knees and cries out in dejection, and all of the crows around him fly away.
Transition
We see Beren running through the woods with an enraged look on his face. He finds the orcs in their camp and we see him slowly draw his sword. He hears them talking about yucky things and then he sees his fathers (head, hand?) and strikes in rage. He kills the leader and the few near him. The others stand back in fear, looking upon this terrible man who appeared out of the darkness. I'm thinking now that it could be a silent moment as Odo suggested. Perhaps he spits on the orc corpeses (which might be a little too much edge...) and walks away. Or, the other orcs flee in fear, and there is no need for dialouge. Thus begins the wanderings of Beren.

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Re: BEREN AND LUTHIEN (THE ADAPTATION)

Post by Old Forum on Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:50 am

Odo Banks

With slight variations we could stick to your ideas, Tinuviel, and yet stay extremely close to the book.

For instance, we could have the crows in the trees and Gorlim coming to warn Beren, but only know it's a dream when Beren startles awake.

In the book Beren finds the camp a day later (I think?) and l really think he should find the terrible aftermath of brutal violence. Is this too gruesome? Beren finds all the dead with their faces eaten off [man-flesh!] and Beren stumbles anxiously from one body to the next, and only recognizes his father from some kind of brooch, or motif on his clothes? Then he sees his father's hand has been taken by the Orcs. I imagine Beren would be quite upset over all this.

Odo

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Re: BEREN AND LUTHIEN (THE ADAPTATION)

Post by Old Forum on Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:51 am

Tinuviel

ok, maybe not ripped off faces Laughing but everything else I like! Is there a type of broch for the descendants of Beor? If not, we'll make one!

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Re: BEREN AND LUTHIEN (THE ADAPTATION)

Post by Old Forum on Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:51 am

Odo Banks

It was a bit graphic, Tinuviel, maybe I'll use that idea in some other Movie idea. Mind you, maybe we don't need a brooch or similar. If Beren looked around at the twelve faceless dead, his eye might fall upon a handless corpse and recognise immediately that it is Barahir whose hand with the ring is missing. In the book the Orcs take his hand as a token for Sauron - and that's pretty graphic.

Beren loses his hand later too. Lots of hands getting lost...

Odo

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Re: BEREN AND LUTHIEN (THE ADAPTATION)

Post by Old Forum on Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:52 am

Gandalfs Beard

Indeed it is Laughing .

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Re: BEREN AND LUTHIEN (THE ADAPTATION)

Post by Old Forum on Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:52 am

Gandalfs Beard

Hmmm! Father and Son both lose hands! Maybe George Lucas direct it after all Wink

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Re: BEREN AND LUTHIEN (THE ADAPTATION)

Post by Old Forum on Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:53 am

Odo Banks

I think "No!" is a good answer.

Odo

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Re: BEREN AND LUTHIEN (THE ADAPTATION)

Post by Old Forum on Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:53 am

Tinuviel

It seems that Beren dies ALMOST alot. I think in the film, he should be wounded, not on the brink of death, because for me it seemed like he couldn't do anything without Luthien (Which is obviously not true. Yet whether its my teen logic or lack of patience, I do not know Laughing )
None the less! If we are to make this a movie, we must add some concreteness to it. Tolkein obviously never intended for this story to be on the big screen, therefore he didn't take the time to make it realistic enough for one to protray with mere actors. We would need the actual characters to tell this story the way tolkein did. It's a diffficult task, and we may need to ( as much as I HATE!!!!!!!!! to say this...) add some reality too it. Embarassed Shocked Only in order to make it into the film. That's what happens though when you take a story and make the words pictures; you loose a little bit of the imagination that goes with them.

Thus, this project will be harder than LOTR.

I'm up for it.

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Re: BEREN AND LUTHIEN (THE ADAPTATION)

Post by Old Forum on Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:54 am

Odo Banks

Of course we're up to it, Tinuviel. We're true fans! We'll never allow obstacles (or actual logic) stand in our way.

As to your thoughts about having to make Beren and Luthien (The Movie) a little more realistic, I agree with you. I've been playing it over in my mind for several days. Might we not endeavor to show the true story of what happened, but show the audience (through subtle means I haven't thought up yet) what 'actually' happened in a way that might hint at and suggest how history became legend, and legend 'mythology'! And, anyway, if we try to be too fantastic, I think we'll lose the opportunity to show Beren and Luthien as 'real' people who might actually fail. We know they don't fail, but surely we must feel they might - so they must be shown to be 'real' and vulnerable.

As to Luthien as heroine - well Luthien is the daughter of an Elf King and a Maia. She must have Powers - we just have to be thoughtful how we might limit them. As to her saving Beren's bacon a lot - why not?

In stories male heroes have been saving Gals-in-Distress for thousands of years. You know, it can go the other way too. I think it's great T had Luthien consistently saving Beren! But let's just not turn her into a shield-maiden (or a quasi-man) to do it. A woman can have some physical ability as a fighter (and Enchantress, of course!) but she doesn't have to punch out huge Wargs and Werewolves with one punch, or ward off the thrust of huge swords wielded by Mega-Orcs.

(Btw I hate it when light-weight heroines punch out hordes of beefy male villains - it's silly. Actually, I don't like it when that weedy Tom Cruise does it either! And come to think of it - let's have Beren not be too over-the-top with his prowess either...)

Yes, to make an exciting romantic magical realistic but yet subtle movie will be difficult. That's why this movie needs the quality of people who post on this forum to accomplish it! Other forum-type people have tried to make this movie - according to our wise beard, GB -but obviously they failed!

Odo

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Re: BEREN AND LUTHIEN (THE ADAPTATION)

Post by Old Forum on Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:54 am

Tinuviel

I agree that Luthien is the main Heroine here, and I have nothing against it at all! In fact, the story I myself am writing has heroine as the main character.
And, unlike the other forums, WE SHALL PULL THROUGH!!
I can feel it....

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Re: BEREN AND LUTHIEN (THE ADAPTATION)

Post by Old Forum on Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:55 am

Tinuviel

I found this. Just some other ideas from other people I suppose. Indeed we're not the first to try this...

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Re: BEREN AND LUTHIEN (THE ADAPTATION)

Post by Old Forum on Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:56 am

Odo Banks

Not a bad attempt - but they seemed a bit short in the budget department! Laughing Laughing

Odo

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Re: BEREN AND LUTHIEN (THE ADAPTATION)

Post by Old Forum on Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:56 am

Gandalfs Beard

The trailer was...erm...not completely awful Neutral . I give them credit for the attempt. I'll try watching the full film, but I'm not sure how much I'll be able to sit through.

This really does need a budget and some decent acting to pull it off properly.

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Re: BEREN AND LUTHIEN (THE ADAPTATION)

Post by Old Forum on Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:56 am

Tinuviel

Agreed. Tho, I think they were just doing this for fun. And we'll need quality cameras... so we have good picture.
Also, should we film this in New Zeland? or should early middle earth be located somewhere else... Ideas?

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Re: BEREN AND LUTHIEN (THE ADAPTATION)

Post by Old Forum on Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:57 am

Odo Banks

Somewhere in northern Europe might be okay, if unspoilt. Some parts of Russia might be okay, of course, I'm just not familiar with that landscape, GB. NZ was certainly beautiful.

Odo

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Re: BEREN AND LUTHIEN (THE ADAPTATION)

Post by Old Forum on Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:57 am

Gandalfs Beard

Russia has some beautiful Landscapes too.

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Re: BEREN AND LUTHIEN (THE ADAPTATION)

Post by Old Forum on Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:57 am

Gandalfs Beard

Russia is huge, and still has vast tracts of unspoilt Wilderness. I've seen a few wildlife documentaries set in Russia recently. If one is looking for dramatic landscapes that differ from NZ's, that might be the way to go.

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Re: BEREN AND LUTHIEN (THE ADAPTATION)

Post by Old Forum on Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:58 am

Odo Banks

I can imagine cool bleak forests, high chill lakes, and desolate heather covered moors. Will Russia suit?

Odo

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Re: BEREN AND LUTHIEN (THE ADAPTATION)

Post by Old Forum on Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:58 am

Tinuviel

Idk... wouldn't that be messy? I mean with contracts and stuff? NZ at least already was exposed to Middle Earth. But Perhaps in a different part of NZ? not Willmington?

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