THE EPIC HOBBIT

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THE EPIC HOBBIT

Post by Orwell on Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:56 am

I've oftened wondered why Tolkien stopped his "adulterization" of The Hobbit - that is, tried to make a more growed up version of the story. Among all my ideas about why he could not achieve it, it had never occurred to me that maybe it was because the 'more growed up" he made it, the more 'similar' to LotR it became. Indeed, I feel LotR is The Hobbit Made Large - or "The Epic Hobbit". So many things are repeated, but enlarged/adapted/improved* in LotR. The parrallels are uncanny.

Examples:

The Hobbit first, LotR second:

one hobbit -----------------four
Gandalf---------------------more powerful Gandalf
Misty Mountain - goblins-----Moria - more goblins and other creatures
Troop of Dwarves-----------Troop of Representative Peoples
Elrond Lore Master----------Elrond Loremaster with Council
Smaug the Powerful---------Sauron the even more powerful
Big Battle at end - eagles----Bigger battle/s at end - eagles

I could go on for ages with this!

In trying to rewrite The Hobbit, Tolkien probably realized he'd end up with another version of LotR! How dull!


* By 'improved', I mean Tolkien tried to improve on The Hobbit, but it's a matter of opinion if and where 'improvements' were achieved.

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Re: THE EPIC HOBBIT

Post by Eldorion on Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:04 am

Gandalf the Wizard convinces a member of the Baggins family to go on a dangerous Quest to a distant Mountain. Along with companions selected with input from Gandalf, the Baggins leaves the Shire after a party. He stays at an inn after leaving the Shire. While travelling across Eriador the Baggins has an encounter with the forces of evil that drives home the danger he is in. He has some time to rejuvenate at Rivendell and receive wisdom from Elrond before continuing on his Quest and crossing the Misty Mountains. While in tunnels beneath the Mountains the Baggins encounters Gollum. Once on the other side the Baggins must continue on without Gandalf for the time being, although Gandalf will return later...

Did I just describe the first part of The Hobbit or The Lord of the Rings?
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Re: THE EPIC HOBBIT

Post by Ally on Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:12 am

You did indeed

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Re: THE EPIC HOBBIT

Post by Eldorion on Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:14 am

LOTR is such a rip-off.
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Re: THE EPIC HOBBIT

Post by Ally on Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:19 am

Hey! Sarcasm is kinda MY thing here

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Re: THE EPIC HOBBIT

Post by Orwell on Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:21 am

It's exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about, Eldo. Well picked. The similarities are uncanny. (Ally thinks I was joking. I'm not, of course!)

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Re: THE EPIC HOBBIT

Post by Ally on Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:27 am

Maybe they are similar because they are written by the same author using the same race as the main protagonist in the same universe
And unless he was going to write a romance or something there would always be similarities

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Re: THE EPIC HOBBIT

Post by Orwell on Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:30 am

Eldorion wrote:

Did I just describe the first part of The Hobbit or The Lord of the Rings?

To explain Ally...


Gandalf the Wizard convinces a member of the Baggins family to go on a dangerous Quest to a distant Mountain = Frodo to Mount Doom.

Along with companions selected with input from Gandalf, the Baggins leaves the Shire after a party = (eventually) The Nine Companions. (They set out after Council of Elrond/Unexpected Party).

He stays at an inn after leaving the Shire = Prancing Pony.

While travelling across Eriador the Baggins has an encounter with the forces of evil that drives home the danger he is in = Misty Mountains - Goblins.

He has some time to rejuvenate at Rivendell and receive wisdom from Elrond before continuing on his Quest and crossing the Misty Mountains = Mount Doom.

While in tunnels beneath the Mountains the Baggins encounters Gollum... Yes: the connecting link between TH and LotR.

Once on the other side the Baggins must continue on without Gandalf for the time being, although Gandalf will return later...= Gandalf's fall in Moria.

Well done, Eldo. You're right on the money.




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Re: THE EPIC HOBBIT

Post by David H on Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:24 am

In that case... study
I predict the first movie will end as the company completes a voyage down a river in vessels obtained from the elves,

and the 3rd movie will begin as war is looming on the horizon and troops are being mustered across the land,
(though possibly with a flashback that reveals the roots of the conflict. :carrot: )
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Re: THE EPIC HOBBIT

Post by Ally on Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:45 am

I still don't see the issue

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Re: THE EPIC HOBBIT

Post by Orwell on Tue Aug 21, 2012 1:43 pm

Not an issue, Ally, just an observation, and not an negative one at all as I love both books. I just thought it interesting that the more I speculate on a serious-ization of The Hobbit, the more I ponder on how similar the books might become.

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Re: THE EPIC HOBBIT

Post by halfwise on Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:33 pm

For quite a while the Inkling's referred to LoTR as "the New Hobbit". In contradistinction was the revised Hobbit ever read to anyone?

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Re: THE EPIC HOBBIT

Post by Mrs Figg on Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:17 pm

Its funny how forests are always dangerous places, the only one ever to actually like them in all the books was Legolas, the others found them at best queer and at worst nightmarish.
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Re: THE EPIC HOBBIT

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:46 pm

I wonder if PJ will be able to avoid turning TH into LotR's then? Especially now he's made it into a trilogy.

On the tree thing Ive always felt Tolkien had quite an ambivelent attitude to trees- yeah he likes them but he often depicts them as outright bad or at the least dangerous.

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Re: THE EPIC HOBBIT

Post by Wisey Banks on Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:40 pm

Maybe Old Man Willow
and Tom,
Te tom te bom,
and the Barrow-wights,
lol lilly lol light,
will be in The Hobbit?
nee nobbit nee nobbit -
It could be managed,
you know,
hey derry derry dee-doh,
Stylistically they might fit
very well there,
over dell
under bears, dee dol
herry ho heely ho ho
derry dol!


Tom's Song (PJ version - still in rewrite)

by Wisey Banks

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Re: THE EPIC HOBBIT

Post by Mrs Figg on Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:17 am

Razz
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