Petty's Purist LotR Edits

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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits

Post by Squach on Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:29 pm

Kafria wrote:
Pettytyrant101 wrote:"8 hours??????????????????????????????????????????????"- Squach

Look on the brightside thats 4 hours less than watching PJ's cuts back to back!

Or putting up with a Mum watching all 3 back to back!!! Very Happy

Well, you haven't watched it for ages, i suppose, but sometimes you do bore me. Sleep

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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits

Post by Kafria on Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:54 pm

Well I have no patience! couldn't wait for the mega edit, so watched ROTK yesterday and read Ringdrotten and pettys discussion finally. (didn't read it before so as to be fresh to the film!)

I think the biggest shock to me was the limited amount of Frodo footage, I know you have commented on this before, but as we neared the completion of the story (more in keeping with the book I know) I realised how little balanced the film was.

So my thoughts, mostly I echo what Ringdrotten said, the recuts add to the story and let the characters develop as they should and as was done in the TT edits, I did find one or two of the scenes so dark filtered I had to lighten them up to see and I also came across the blank scene with Denethor and Faramir.

You have to be commended on a really good job of pulling together the story and using the recutting to clear the meaning of several of the stories within this. I also like the way you have tried to keep key ideas even where what was filmed means you cannot go completely back to the book (thinking of paths of the dead conclusion at pelenor fields).

In fact, the job you did in most places was so good it left me regretful that these limitations meant some things could not be mended. The attempt to lessen Denethors madness is good, but does not give him back his command, the lack of Frodo and Sam footage misses one of the key parts of this story to me - Sams never ending determination at a point when Frodo is all but lost, and his never ending hope. Finally with the story much more the way it should be I think it is clear that the tale is not fully told - scouring required to fulfill it.

I have really looked forward to each section and enjoyed each one, next is the megaedit and an easter holiday to watch it in!

So my next question is, what footage would you change if you could and what extra would you add (for me another bit that is missing is a fuller sense of the houses of healing and Aragorns role in the healing and refusal to enter the city until as King)?

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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:00 pm

Thanks Kafria- I will make a fuller response later- got friends round, playing Fifa, but just wanted to say uploading bits for the megaedit as I go, if they appear in the folder you can download them, but you cant use them till you have them all, but might be a good idea to start sooner rather than later and get it bit by bit. It will take me longer to upload than it will to dl anyway.

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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Tue Apr 05, 2011 3:41 pm

"the limited amount of Frodo footage"- Kafria

The main reason for this of course was PJ and the Filthy Female Degenerates (see what your making me do Eldo!) decision to move the bulk of the story from TT into RotK. An odd choice as it not only meant cutting most of the RotK Frodo/Sam stuff but also meant having to make something up to fill the time they now had in TT, hence the Faramir idiocy. A complete mess really, poorly thought out.

"I did find one or two of the scenes so dark filtered I had to lighten them up"

This partly depends of course on your monitor/tv. I use a lcd tv set to Movie, which is quite dark. The new filters in the megaedit are not as dark, so shouldn't be as much a problem. Although Moria/Mordor and a few other places are still dark in comparison to the original.

"I also came across the blank scene with Denethor and Faramir."

That should be gone in the megaedit, although rendering, especially when it takes 20hours or more does throw up odd bugs and glitches, it seems unavoidable sadly! Evil or Very Mad

"I think it is clear that the tale is not fully told - scouring required to fulfill it."

I always felt the Scouring was needed but this edit seems to make it all the more obvious. The hobbits stories in particular just do not seem resolved or satisfactory.
And I suppose that leads into your final question.
I would add Scouring back in. I also agree about Aragorn remaining outside the city and I would have included the other nobles of Gondor too, as its ludicrous without them.
I would also have included the Grey Company arriving and accompanying Aragorn on the Paths of the Dead. PJ goes on about how the elves turning up at Helms Deep gets a cheer from audiences (obviously he wasn't in the cinema I saw it in or he would have heard the cursing-although I admit that was mainly me) yet when Tolkien gives him such a moment, a whole group of Dunedain like Aragorn, he ditches them. In fact the Paths is a right off in the film, the theatrical release was poor enough, the EE just turns it into a bad haunted house. Where is the creepiness of the book? Where is the body they find, still in armour, who had been trying so desperately to escape he died scratching at a door? No, instead we get millions of skulls and rubbish spooky smoke. And of course the Dead should only be used for the seizing of the ships and not appear at Minas Tirith. Aragorn should arrive with the freed people of the coasts.

There is a lot of small stuff I would have included, especially where I think Tolkien is saying something. For example the very short scene after the battle of Pelennor when Legolas and Gimli enter the city for the first time and have the following conversation;
'..the good stone is the older and was wrought in the first building,' said Gimli, "It is ever so with the things that Men begin; there is a frost in Spring, or a blight in Summer, and they fail of their promise.'
"Yet seldom do the fail of their seed," said Legolas, "And that will lie in dust and rot to spring up again in times and places unlooked for. The deeds of Men will outlast us, Gimli.
"And yet come to naught in the end but might-have-beens, I guess, "said the Dwarf.
"To that the Elves know not the answer," said Legolas.'

If rather than setting out to alter the story to make it fit some preconceived notion of film structure, and they had instead followed something more like the megaedit, and simply structured it as the book and told the same story- they would have had up to 4hours to play about with. Enough for Crickhollow, Bombadil, Barrow Downs, the nobles of Gondor and an explanation of the how the coastal areas are being drawn away from the defence of Minas Tirith, the Grey Company, Denethor having a palantir, the Scouring and a lot of little incidentals like the above given scene.
Damn it! Now I'm crabbit thinking about it again!

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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits

Post by Kafria on Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:38 pm

Sorry, didn't mean to make you cross!

I have really enjoyed these edits and I'm looking forward to watching the mega edit. The story is much more complete and in terms of the ring follows through and completes well, nearly all characters are trurer to themselves and tolkiens intent. The pacing is much more enjoyable with space for the tale to breathe. It does stick to the narrative of the story and I believe it would actually give most who did not know the books a clearer feeling of Tolkiens story than the theatrical edits ever did. It's a great achievement, I wouldn'teven know where to start!

On a side note I missed the grey company particularly and it never made any sense to exclude them, one man surviving in isolation just doesn't make sense with generations of Stewards in Gondor!


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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:54 pm

No worries Kafria- not your fault- those films just make me crabbit for the potential missed!

Just uploading bit 40 of 81!! If anyone is planning on watching this weekend I'd start dl now so you don't have to sit for ages getting them all in one go. Happy viewing.

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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits

Post by Kafria on Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:20 pm

I have to thank you for taking the time to upload - it's bad enough downloading, but at least i get something out of it at the end and it's quicker!
Aren't you going stir crazy yet?

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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:45 pm

Absolutely batty to be perfectly honest!! I can leave it on uploading up to 5 bits at once when I'm sleeping or on shift, but its still tedious as anything.
I think it will be a while before I watch these films again- I am sick of the sight of them right now! I haven't even had the strength to watch the megaedit through for mistakes- so there may be some- I've just flicked through it, watched some key bits to check its ok. Can't face watching the whole thing- I seem to have staring at these films, or bits of them for weeks- probably because that's exactly what I have been doing!

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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits

Post by Ringdrotten on Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:17 pm

For what it's worth, your efforts are appreciated Smile Expecting a few DVDs in the mail tomorrow or Thursday, so the megaedit may have to wait a little, I'm afraid. I'll start downloading asap, though Smile

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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Apr 06, 2011 1:52 pm

"I missed the grey company particularly and it never made any sense to exclude them, one man surviving in isolation just doesn't make sense"- Kafria

I couldn't agree more, made worse by the retention of Butterbur's line when Frodo asks in the Prancing Pony who the man in the corner is, "he is one of those Rangers, wandering the wilds". So the viewer knows he is not out there alone
If PJ wanted a cheer moment with help unlooked for the Grey Company is it, I can't remember exactly offhand what it is Theoden says when they arrive but it amounts to "If they are anything like Aragorn they will be worth 10 of any one else". I'd have been excited to see them and I am sure the average cinema goer would too.

As to uploading- no getting round it its a pain in the a**e, but at least once its done its up there for good, unlike rapidshare which allows bigger file sizes but if no one dl anything from it over a 7 day period it gets wiped.

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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:01 pm

Whooooooooooooooooooooo! cheers cheers I feel I can say, much like Frodo after the Ring has gone in the fire, it's done!! The megaedit is up.
Now no denying its going to be a pain to download, but hopefully you will find worth it.

One thing, when watching it back I noticed occasional choppiness if I had other stuff running, but then this steam driven laptop has only 1 processor and 1 gig of ram- played fine if I shut down other programs though. Think its just because the film length is so long.

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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits

Post by Kafria on Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:10 pm

not doing too bad on the downloading, been keeping pace with the uploading for the past couple of days, so on part 73 already! Will have it all down ready for a good Easter Hols watch this weekend! Very Happy

Thanks for the effort to get it uploaded!

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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:15 pm

Happy viewing Kafria! Just hoping there hasn't been any upload problems with any bits- although if there is it should say when you uncompact it which file is the problem and I can easily reup the bit- hopefully though it will all work smoothly!

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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits

Post by Kafria on Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:58 pm

all extracted and stuck back together fine, so all bits must have uploaded okay!

Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers bounce bounce bounce bounce

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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Thu Apr 07, 2011 6:58 pm

cheers cheers Hoooray!!! Very Happy Very Happy

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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:12 pm

Toying with the notion of sending the megaedit to PJ and the Coven. Anyone know a contact address?

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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits

Post by Ringdrotten on Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:19 pm

Excellent idea Very Happy No idea about how to contact them, but I hope you figure it out. You might save the hobbit movies yet Very Happy

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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:23 pm

I'm a Scotshobbit on a mission Ringdrotten- and full of buckie!! drunken
Not sure how he will take the tag line I put on the end of the credits though;
"Taking the PJ out, putting the Tolkien back in!"

Well found his fan mail address for snail mail. Just need to hope which ever lackeys he has working for him flag it up!

Peter Jackson
WingNut Films
P.O Box 15-208
Miramar
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New Zealand


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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Apr 08, 2011 1:52 am

Odd Tales From the Editing Room 1

You may not have noticed, I don't think anyone has commented on so I assume it either went unnoticed as an addition or at least didn't annoy sufficiently for comment. But as the Company leave Moria I added a white flash between the end of that scene and the beginning of the next when they are outside in Dimrill Dale.
I was just watching Fellowship back (there's a small render glitch in the Aragorn scene at the grave side where some pixels go weird colours, but its only for a second or two-bloody annoying though and unlikely to be fixed any time soon-I can't face it) and it struck me as weird where ideas for things come from.
The notion for the white flash goes back to when I was in my early teens and obsessed with Tolkien in a similar manner to which girls of the same age were with pop stars (who years later would invariable declare they were gay- as far as I know Tolkien never did that).
There was a games company back then, Melbourne House, which specialized in text adventures. And even better the first one they made, for the zx spectrum, was the now classic The Hobbit ('Thorin sits and sings of gold'). But by my teens the mighty Commodore Amiga was the machine of choice and Melbourne House released The Fellowship of the Ring text adventure. It came on four tapes and in a huge box which included a copy of Fellowship Of The Ring. And all for under a tenner!
And it was devilishly hard. Especially Moria. It was just a huge maze with only one way through. It if you went the wrong way, it looped you back to the start.
I was in Moria for months.
And every input;'north', 'east', 'go down stairs' was met with a description of the dark and the gloom of Moria (until inevitably I would find myself reading the description of the entrance hall again). I sat staring at those descriptions for so long that when I eventually by pure fluke hit on the route out, the description of the blazing sunshine of Dimrill Dale was to much and I actually felt blinded, dazzled in the light.
I sat blinking in front of my tv (the Amiga plugged into the aerial socket).
It's a sensation which has stayed with me and which no book as ever quite provoked, an actual physical sensation of the description. So when I came to edit that bit that is what was in my mind, so I hope you all watch it in the dark and get blinded too.


-for those who wish to sample the delights of the first ever interactive Tolkien head to the following link, it should be on the main page if not the year of release was 1982.
Be warned this is one of the first ever text adventures and it is completely unforgiving. There is no spell check and a limited vocabulary to input and make a single spelling or punctuation mistake and the game will not recognize what you typed. But its still a little bit of gaming and Tolkien history (and a fondly remembered if frustrating part of my youth-bit like dating was really!)

http://www.zxspectrum.net/

And for those not brave enough to put up with the crudeness of the program for long here's the solution to the game (its commodore 64 version but probably the same). But boy it seems short when I think of the hours my friends and I put into it.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/c64/565487-the-hobbit/faqs/14842

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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits

Post by Kafria on Sat Apr 09, 2011 10:35 pm

fab site, brings back loads of memories, just struggling to find the correct key combinations to make games work!

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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits

Post by Saradoc on Sun Apr 10, 2011 2:59 pm

Kafria wrote:fab site, brings back loads of memories, just struggling to find the correct key combinations to make games work!

Finally managed to get out of Bag End (seemed to take forever) went downstairs for a quick snack (it's thirsty work in the glorious weather the UK's having) came back, and I had died! Sad

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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits

Post by Ringdrotten on Thu Apr 21, 2011 9:38 pm

Finally finished downloading, but I have a little problem: I can't find that "extract" thing you mentioned. Do I need a programme or something to be able to unzip/extract the .rar files?

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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:58 pm

You need to have winrar installed. If you dont have it no worries just google it and download from their website, its free. Put all the bits of the film into the same folder then right click on the first of them and you should have the option to 'extract here'. Just click it and the program will do the rest.

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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits

Post by Ringdrotten on Fri Apr 22, 2011 2:23 am

Aha, I'll do that tomorrow then. Thanks Smile

Edit: Seems like I could've worked that out pretty easily myself had I reread your post! Embarassed


Last edited by Ringdrotten on Fri Apr 22, 2011 1:20 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits

Post by Ringdrotten on Fri Apr 22, 2011 1:17 pm

Working like a charm Smile Quality and sound looks great, and all in one file Very Happy Makes it much easier to move between hard drives, so that's great. Don't know when I'll find time to watch it, but I'll let you know when I have!

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