The New American versions of Sherlock: Perception and Elementary

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The New American versions of Sherlock: Perception and Elementary

Post by Gandalf's Beard on Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:54 am

I think both of these series have potential. I like Elementary in part because it is one of the few screen treatments that deal directly with Holmes' Coke Fiend habits. Wink



Perception is Sherlock Holmes in all but name. He's a schizophrenic professor with a sidekick who solves crimes.




Anyone seen these programmes? Thoughts, opinions?

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Re: The New American versions of Sherlock: Perception and Elementary

Post by Norc on Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:01 pm

Idespiteelementary!theystolethefuckingideafrombbc!

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Re: The New American versions of Sherlock: Perception and Elementary

Post by Gandalf's Beard on Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:28 pm

Whaddya mean "stole." Sherlock Holmes is a Public Property. Anyone can make their own version.

Nearly every bloody eccentric detective in all of fictiondom is based on Holmes. Columbo, Monk, the Mentalist...etc.

I was hoping for a bit more than pot-shots Razz

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Re: The New American versions of Sherlock: Perception and Elementary

Post by halfwise on Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:32 pm

I tried watching elementary and might have continued if I hadn't been spoiled by Sherlock: the comparison made it feel like I was wasting my time and quit. Didn't see enough to give an in depth critique, except to say it's not in the same class. Of course, a Sherlock 'season' is only 3 episodes, so it's like comparing a movie to a weekly product.

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Re: The New American versions of Sherlock: Perception and Elementary

Post by Gandalf's Beard on Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:47 pm

I mostly like the characters and the concepts in Perception. It remains to be seen if the show rises at least near to BBC standards, but so far I like it.


I'm not certain about Elementary. The first episode was crazy (in a good way) and I thought Sherlock was inspired (if anything he's nuttier than the professor in Perception), but I'm not to sure about the chemistry of the actors yet.

The shows don't necessarily have to be compared to BBC's version, and I think it's a bit of a disservice to do so despite the inevitable impulse of the brain to immediately go there. And we shouldn't forget the shows were made for an American audience.

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Re: The New American versions of Sherlock: Perception and Elementary

Post by Norc on Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:01 pm

I know sherlock holmes is public property and all that, but when they make a modern adaption right after they've seen the sherlock pilot and well... changed alot, so they wouldn't be sued... well... anyways, I'm gonna say as moffat says. They are comfortable enough with their own sherlock, so they doesn't feel so threatened by elementary. in other words. sherlock is best.

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Re: The New American versions of Sherlock: Perception and Elementary

Post by Eldorion on Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:05 pm

Gandalf's Beard wrote:Whaddya mean "stole." Sherlock Holmes is a Public Property. Anyone can make their own version.

Well, considering that CBS suddenly had the idea for a modern reinterpretation of Holmes right after the BBC shot down their proposal to make an official American adaptation of Sherlock, you'll have to forgive me for not giving them the benefit of the doubt. Rolling Eyes

I posted my thoughts on Elementary in the Sherlock thread already, but I didn't hate it or anything. The first episode was okay, but it felt pretty mediocre overall. I disliked the music choice though and the production values felt really cheap, though the latter is probably just a factor of it being on network TV. I'll give it a couple more episodes before deciding whether to drop it or not.

I've never heard of Perception before now.
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Re: The New American versions of Sherlock: Perception and Elementary

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:17 pm

I havent seen either the shows you mention GB- I think my main gripe with Elementary from what I know however is that it is not in any way an adaptation of the books.
Sherlock, whilst its modernised and altered is still basically an adaptation of the book with extras. Any fan of the originals will immediately recognise the story they are wtching from the book.
Scandal in Whereever it was is a good example- the first half is pretty much just a modernisation of the book- the second half is pure invetion.
But because it sticks to the heart of the originals it feels like a genuine Sherlocks Holmes story and not just using the name to sell yet another generic looking cop show.

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Re: The New American versions of Sherlock: Perception and Elementary

Post by halfwise on Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:23 pm

Gandalf's Beard wrote: And we shouldn't forget the shows were made for an American audience.

Meaning what, exactly? Suspect

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Re: The New American versions of Sherlock: Perception and Elementary

Post by Gandalf's Beard on Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:29 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:I havent seen either the shows you mention GB- I think my main gripe with Elementary from what I know however is that it is not in any way an adaptation of the books.
Sherlock, whilst its modernised and altered is still basically an adaptation of the book with extras. Any fan of the originals will immediately recognise the story they are wtching from the book.
Scandal in Whereever it was is a good example- the first half is pretty much just a modernisation of the book- the second half is pure invetion.
But because it sticks to the heart of the originals it feels like a genuine Sherlocks Holmes story and not just using the name to sell yet another generic looking cop show.

Well, having the same stories as the books is not a prerequisite for what is essentially Fan Fic.

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Re: The New American versions of Sherlock: Perception and Elementary

Post by Gandalf's Beard on Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:32 pm

halfwise wrote:
Gandalf's Beard wrote: And we shouldn't forget the shows were made for an American audience.

Meaning what, exactly? Suspect

Meaning that Americans have a different sense of aesthetics that many Brits (and American Anglophiles) sneer at as being sub-standard. Laughing

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Re: The New American versions of Sherlock: Perception and Elementary

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:38 pm

having the same stories as the books is not a prerequisite for what is essentially Fan Fic.- GB

And I suppose right there is why I am have little interest in Elementary- I dont want to watch Holmes fan fic- I want to watch a version of the books and tales I love, of the charcaters I know and love- Sherlock gives me that with all the wonders of modern setting and film making.
Actually its much the same reason my interest in TH is waning so fast- its looking more and more like fan fic too. Mad

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Re: The New American versions of Sherlock: Perception and Elementary

Post by Gandalf's Beard on Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:48 pm

Eldorion wrote:
Gandalf's Beard wrote:Whaddya mean "stole." Sherlock Holmes is a Public Property. Anyone can make their own version.

Well, considering that CBS suddenly had the idea for a modern reinterpretation of Holmes right after the BBC shot down their proposal to make an official American adaptation of Sherlock, you'll have to forgive me for not giving them the benefit of the doubt. Rolling Eyes

I posted my thoughts on Elementary in the Sherlock thread already, but I didn't hate it or anything. The first episode was okay, but it felt pretty mediocre overall. I disliked the music choice though and the production values felt really cheap, though the latter is probably just a factor of it being on network TV. I'll give it a couple more episodes before deciding whether to drop it or not.

I've never heard of Perception before now.

Oh please! Rolling Eyes It was coming anyway. After those godawful American-made films with Robert Downey Jr (he does have some funny scenes though) I knew it was only a matter of time before Hollywood took a crack at a modernized version. It was inevitable regardless of the British series.

I agree that the show has an aura of mediocrity that bodes ill for the future, but I rather thought the pilot episode was quite good and exceeded the hint of mediocrity lapping at its heels.

I've watched all the episodes of Perception so far, and I like it. It is a bit "Lite," but the characters and their interactions have a lot of chemistry. I'll leave it up to you as to whether you think the stories are any good.

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Re: The New American versions of Sherlock: Perception and Elementary

Post by Gandalf's Beard on Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:50 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:having the same stories as the books is not a prerequisite for what is essentially Fan Fic.- GB

And I suppose right there is why I am have little interest in Elementary- I dont want to watch Holmes fan fic- I want to watch a version of the books and tales I love, of the charcaters I know and love- Sherlock gives me that with all the wonders of modern setting and film making.
Actually its much the same reason my interest in TH is waning so fast- its looking more and more like fan fic too. Mad

If you didn't want fan fic you wouldn't be watching a series set in modern times. Razz

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Re: The New American versions of Sherlock: Perception and Elementary

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:53 pm

And I thought GB you would immediately see the link between them being told they couldnt do Sherlock and suddenly deciding to do ther own as perfect conspiracy material, and so surely true?! Wink

Sherlock is set in modern times but it still uses dialogue form the books, the charcaters from the books and the plots of the books- MOffat and Gatiss are huge fans of the originals so they made the origianls in the modern day- it maintains everything central to the stroies, the releationships, the city (and London and New York have quite different flavours- LOndon was always an extra charcater in th ebooks and remains so in Sherlock).
I dont see how just moving the core elements to present day makes it fan fic- now making up entire new characters (Tauriel, Radagast-and he is new he seem snothing like the book) and adding your own plots points- Dol Guldur, zombie orcs ect- that is fan fic)

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Re: The New American versions of Sherlock: Perception and Elementary

Post by Eldorion on Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:26 pm

Gandalf's Beard wrote:Oh please! Rolling Eyes It was coming anyway. After those godawful American-made films with Robert Downey Jr (he does have some funny scenes though) I knew it was only a matter of time before Hollywood took a crack at a modernized version. It was inevitable regardless of the British series.

Just because it's inevitable doesn't mean I have to be happy about it. Besides, I note that you are completely ignoring CBS' prior attempt to import the BBC's Sherlock officially. Wink

And why do people always have to shit all over RDJ in these threads anyway? Sad

I agree that the show has an aura of mediocrity that bodes ill for the future, but I rather thought the pilot episode was quite good and exceeded the hint of mediocrity lapping at its heels.

I don't really watch enough network TV to say how it holds up by those standards. Next to the sort of shows you see on HBO, AMC, or Showtime (among other cable channels) not to mention the BBC's Sherlock it felt pretty amateurish. But I'll give it time because I am curious to see where they decided to take the show. I think this was the main episodes so the actual show will probably be different in some ways.

If you didn't want fan fic you wouldn't be watching a series set in modern times. Razz

I've never read the original books so I don't have any real connection to the Sherlock Holmes stories, but Moffat and Gatiss have said that in setting the series in contemporary times they are trying to strip away the Victorian fetishization (my term, not theirs) that has permeated modern interpretations of the books. Conan Doyle wrote Holmes in a contemporary setting himself, not as a period piece. I think that being contemporary allows the BBC's Sherlock to focus more on plot and character and less on pleasing people with regards to the backdrop. Not that there's anything wrong with making adaptations set in the original time but they can get bogged down.
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Re: The New American versions of Sherlock: Perception and Elementary

Post by Gandalf's Beard on Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:58 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:And I thought GB you would immediately see the link between them being told they couldnt do Sherlock and suddenly deciding to do ther own as perfect conspiracy material, and so surely true?! Wink

Sherlock is set in modern times but it still uses dialogue form the books, the charcaters from the books and the plots of the books- MOffat and Gatiss are huge fans of the originals so they made the origianls in the modern day- it maintains everything central to the stroies, the releationships, the city (and London and New York have quite different flavours- LOndon was always an extra charcater in th ebooks and remains so in Sherlock).
I dont see how just moving the core elements to present day makes it fan fic- now making up entire new characters (Tauriel, Radagast-and he is new he seem snothing like the book) and adding your own plots points- Dol Guldur, zombie orcs ect- that is fan fic)

Well moving it to the modern era is a bit fan fic you must admit. But I must also admit that your point trumps mine. Kissing


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Re: The New American versions of Sherlock: Perception and Elementary

Post by Gandalf's Beard on Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:06 pm

Eldorion wrote:
Gandalf's Beard wrote:Oh please! Rolling Eyes It was coming anyway. After those godawful American-made films with Robert Downey Jr (he does have some funny scenes though) I knew it was only a matter of time before Hollywood took a crack at a modernized version. It was inevitable regardless of the British series.

Just because it's inevitable doesn't mean I have to be happy about it. Besides, I note that you are completely ignoring CBS' prior attempt to import the BBC's Sherlock officially. Wink

And why do people always have to shit all over RDJ in these threads anyway? Sad

I agree that the show has an aura of mediocrity that bodes ill for the future, but I rather thought the pilot episode was quite good and exceeded the hint of mediocrity lapping at its heels.

I don't really watch enough network TV to say how it holds up by those standards. Next to the sort of shows you see on HBO, AMC, or Showtime (among other cable channels) not to mention the BBC's Sherlock it felt pretty amateurish. But I'll give it time because I am curious to see where they decided to take the show. I think this was the main episodes so the actual show will probably be different in some ways.

If you didn't want fan fic you wouldn't be watching a series set in modern times. Razz

I've never read the original books so I don't have any real connection to the Sherlock Holmes stories, but Moffat and Gatiss have said that in setting the series in contemporary times they are trying to strip away the Victorian fetishization (my term, not theirs) that has permeated modern interpretations of the books. Conan Doyle wrote Holmes in a contemporary setting himself, not as a period piece. I think that being contemporary allows the BBC's Sherlock to focus more on plot and character and less on pleasing people with regards to the backdrop. Not that there's anything wrong with making adaptations set in the original time but they can get bogged down.

Who is RDJ? scratch

I'm actually not arguing against your points per se. I'm just soliciting opinions. Very Happy

And I'm not ignoring CBS because I watched Sherlock on PBS and had no idea that CBS gave it go.

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Re: The New American versions of Sherlock: Perception and Elementary

Post by Eldorion on Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:09 pm

RDJ = Robert Downey, Jr. I think I'm the only one here who enjoyed his first Sherlock Holmes movie. As far as I know nobody here enjoyed the second. Laughing

I do appreciate having you and your opinions back. Very Happy
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Re: The New American versions of Sherlock: Perception and Elementary

Post by Norc on Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:12 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:I dont want to watch Holmes fan fic-

you really don't wanna watch Holmes fanfic...

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Re: The New American versions of Sherlock: Perception and Elementary

Post by Gandalf's Beard on Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:13 pm

PS: I did read the books. But I'm not as attached to seeing the stories updated as Petty is.

And I just realized that RDJ is Robert Downey Jr. I LOVE RDJ. I just hate the Sherlock Holmes films he's in (excepting some humourous scenes in the first film).

They are boring, derivative (the action sequences), and they don't stand up to repeat viewing.

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Re: The New American versions of Sherlock: Perception and Elementary

Post by Norc on Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:20 pm

Eldorion wrote:RDJ = Robert Downey, Jr. I think I'm the only one here who enjoyed his first Sherlock Holmes movie. As far as I know nobody here enjoyed the second. Laughing

I do appreciate having you and your opinions back. Very Happy

well, I enjoyed them Wink though I was a bit confused as everything happened really fast. But I understood the story the second time I saw it. I like the RDJ holmes as an action-detective-in-victorian-times piece, not a sherlock holmes story. Overall I agree with Eldo and Petty. Haven't seen the actual episode, but there is no doubt in my mind that the idea is very un-original(stolen) and not at all like Sherlock(BBC) and more of a tribute to Holmes, like house, rather than actual Sherlock Holmes. the overall feel is just wrong.

Elementary is more like that sci fi sherlock where thy are robots.. or actually, i think that us truer to the story...

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Re: The New American versions of Sherlock: Perception and Elementary

Post by Norc on Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:23 pm

guys, really, this series is great. here's the first ep.

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Re: The New American versions of Sherlock: Perception and Elementary

Post by halfwise on Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:25 pm

[quote="Eldorion"]
Gandalf's Beard wrote:
I've never read the original books.....

Shocked

You've gotta fix that, Eldo.

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Re: The New American versions of Sherlock: Perception and Elementary

Post by Eldorion on Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:50 pm

Gandalf's Beard wrote:And I just realized that RDJ is Robert Downey Jr. I LOVE RDJ. I just hate the Sherlock Holmes films he's in (excepting some humourous scenes in the first film).

They are boring, derivative (the action sequences), and they don't stand up to repeat viewing.

A 50% correct opinion is better than nothing, I guess. Very Happy
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