UK paedophilia scandal

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UK paedophilia scandal

Post by Eldorion on Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:12 pm

I first heard about Jimmy Saville on here but every time I check back on this story it seems like it's grown worse. MPs being involved? Hundreds of victims now? What do the UK people think about this and can anyone point me to some reliable information about this?

Obligatory tasteless joke:

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Re: UK paedophilia scandal

Post by chris63 on Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:19 pm

Jim will fix it .

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Re: UK paedophilia scandal

Post by Eldorion on Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:22 pm

Some of the articles I've been linked to elsewhere:

http://news.sky.com/story/1009280/care-home-abuse-victim-tells-of-sex-parties

A man who was abused in North Wales care homes has told how he was routinely taken to London and forced to take part in sex parties.

He alleges he was regularly abused as a 12-year-old boy by members of the establishment in a smart London flat.

Michael was 10 when he was first taken into care at the former children's home called Bersham Hall near Wrexham, north Wales.

He quickly became drawn into the abusive regime at the home.

But he says it was when staff from another home called Bryn Estyn in Wrexham moved to Bersham Hall that the abuse became worse.

Now 44, Michael was one of a number of boys who would be taken down on a minibus that belonged to the home to London on a Friday evening.

He told Sky News: "I'm going to be blunt, we were taken to sex parties and we'd be traded off and displayed and we would be picked out one by one."


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-20264766

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/north-wales-paedophile-scandal-photographic-1426356

Photographic evidence of men abusing boys in care homes 'deliberately destroyed'

Photographs of men abusing boys in the North Wales paedophile scandal were deliberately destroyed by the authorities, it was revealed today.

...

She said: “It shows rape and torture... the effects on those young boys cannot be underestimated.”

The report was trashed on the insistence of Clwyd Council’s insurers, who feared a wave of writs from victims.
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Re: UK paedophilia scandal

Post by chris63 on Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:26 pm

Why do experiments on animals when we can use these guys Extremely Crabbit

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Re: UK paedophilia scandal

Post by azriel on Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:28 pm

Its been on the news at lot here in the UK, It started with someone saying that JS touched them up years ago & now its snowballed where EVERYONE is saying JS has touched them up. Even suggested that he played with the deceased in the Morgue. As far as I know his money has been frozen in the bank & the police are looking into the allegations. Theres a call for compensation for the victims of his alleged abuse. Apparantly, JS touched boys as well as girls. Persons in the BBC are accused of hushing things up & NOW TV & radio personalities are saying they knew or had suspicions that JS was as bent as a two bob note,but didnt say anything at the time,for various reasons.His headstone on his grave has been smashed also.

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Re: UK paedophilia scandal

Post by Eldorion on Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:31 pm

I guess the thing that disturbs me most is the emerging evidence that this was massively bigger than Jimmy Saville. I don't want to get caught up in a frenzy without knowing all the facts but if the allegations about care homes are true ... I don't even want to think about how many people had to have been involved or how many victims there could be.
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Re: UK paedophilia scandal

Post by azriel on Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:31 pm

I agree Chris, since products of any sort are for HUMAN consumption,then use dangerous criminals to experiment on & leave animals alone ! People like Peter Sutcliffe, The Moors Murderers/r

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Re: UK paedophilia scandal

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:34 pm

There are several cases goign on at once here Eldo.
It started with accusations about the late disc jockey and tv entertainer Jimmy Saville. Following his ddeath some people came forward to say he had abused them. This led to even more poeple coming forward. Saville was very devious it seems, his jobs on tv were presenting Top of the Pops in a studio of teenage girls, and Jim'll Fix it, a kids show in which he made kids dreams come true. He was also a huge figure for many charities, he ran marathions every year into his 70's to raise money- but he seems to have been using these opportunities to molest everyone from the girls in the studio to sick kids in hospitals. Its is Saville solely to whom the figure of over 200 victims is attributed.

Now seperate from all that there was a pedophile ring exposed in Wales a couple of decades ago, it was centred on care homes for vulrenrable or orphaned kids. There were rumours at the time that the ring was much wider than just in Wales, but according to the police they could not get enough evidence to prove that, and so that aspect never came up in the oiginal trial.
Now somone who was abused in that care home, in the wake of all the publicity about Saville, has come forward to say that kids from there were picked up in limousines and driven to a hotel where they were abused by a variety of people including a leading Tory MP of the time.
This has led to a guessing game in which at least one MP has being named online but who appears to have had nothing to do with it (the accuser has come forward and said that although that was the name he was given , that was not the Tory MP who abused him). Who it was cannot be named for legal reasons and so the guessing goes on.

How far this goes,whether it still continues, if MP's involved are still serving are all unknowns at the moment.
There are several seperate investigations going on- the BBC are conducting their own into their practices, then and now. And an independent board set up by the governmen are doing the same.
The government are in the process of setting up another board to look at the original evidence and procedures taken at the Wales trial into the care home. And into the possible link with people outside of the original trials purvey, including in the Tory party.

There are also pending a lot of civil cases against both the government and the BBC from those claiming abuse.
Saville of course is dead and cant be held to account or defend himself- but the possibiltiy exists he was not acting alone.

Those of a conspircay bent of mind see this as the uncovering of something they claim has been going on as part of ritual for years. With the rich and wealthy all being part of dark rites involving child abuse. They point to Saville and how the BBC seem to have let him away with it for decades, at how close Saville was to the Royal Family, and at a leading Tory MP being involved- theyconnect the dots and claim its all just the tip of the iceberg exposing a long standing practise amongst the political and social elite of practising pedophilia.

As to reliable info- thats trickier to come by- heres a link to all the BBc stories on the matter- but are they reliable when the BBC themselves are implicated? (I think they probably are- as the BBC are going out of theirway way to appear clean and impartial in how they reoprt on themselves over this)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/search/news/?q=jimmy%20saville

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Re: UK paedophilia scandal

Post by azriel on Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:35 pm

The hard bit for the police etc is to wheedle out who's telling the truth, who WAS touched up, who was abused, & why it was allowed to go on,(if true). JS did have the means & the time to do these things (if true) & was trusted very much. He also had a reputation of doing such a lot for charity. which will shed a very bad light if found guilty. I know hes died,but he still has a reputation & so do the people & charities he worked for & helped.
I admit,as a youngster,I found him repulsive. And I didnt like the way he was so "touchy feely" with the audience on "Top of The Pops".
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Re: UK paedophilia scandal

Post by Eldorion on Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:43 pm

Thanks for the background information, Petty. I've heard the names Lord McAlpine and Derek Laud floated (why are even people on the Internet so reluctant to mention specific names?) but in the case of McAlpine at least they seem to be backtracking now. This is all just a little mind-boggling I guess.

I'll read up more on this later but I'm probably going to have to take it in small doses. pale
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Re: UK paedophilia scandal

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:48 pm

I used to watch Basil Brush, Jimm'll Fix it, Generation Game and Who on a saturday night- all a fond bit of my childhood memory tarnished now by Saville. Itshard when you look back at some of it for it not to seem so bloody obvious- he's literally gropes girls on camera and makes double edged comments.

According to the girl in this clip (now a grandmother) Saville had his hand up her dress.


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Re: UK paedophilia scandal

Post by Ally on Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:49 pm

I think it's important to point out that there hasn't been 'hundreds of victims'. There's been hundreds of complaints of sexual abuse (many a hundred regarding Jimmy Saville). Who knows the real number?

I haven't heard any allegations involving MPs, although Alistair McAlpine was wrongly (it seems) accused of abuse these past few days, and the man making the claim has apologized for identifying him. I don't think he was ever an MP though- are you talking about someone else Petty?

At the moment the truth is blurred with all sorts of fiction (see McAlpine) so it's hard to get reliable information. The BBC actually reported on these false accusations so even they aren't entirely fault free. That's why there could very well be a full public inquiry into the whole debacle.

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Re: UK paedophilia scandal

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:53 pm

Lord Mcalpine was an MP- he was the Conservative Party Treasurer from the late 1970's- to the 1990's. During which time the abuse in Wales occured.

But you are right about the lack of reliable information- mainly because in truth no one knows the answers yet.

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Re: UK paedophilia scandal

Post by Ally on Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:07 pm

Oh, I was assuming that Conservative Party Treasurer was a term relating to the running of specifically the Conservative Party, not Government as a whole.

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Re: UK paedophilia scandal

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:12 pm

It is- Mcalpine was a Conservative Lord.
Its usually a position held by an ex-MP who has been moved up to the Lords (along with their new title). Which I think was the case with Lord Mcalpine.

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Re: UK paedophilia scandal

Post by Ally on Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:14 pm

I couldn't find anything about him ever being an MP.

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Re: UK paedophilia scandal

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:18 pm

He must have been to have been the Treasurer of the Tory party, at the least he must have been a House of Lords member (as the current one is).
Also the accuser sayed he was an MP- unlikely he would confuse him therefore with someone who was not even an MP ever.

-edit add- did some rooting around- he wasnt an MP- but Thatcher made him a life peer in the lords.

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Re: UK paedophilia scandal

Post by Ally on Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:23 pm

He identified someone who he thought was the MP that abused him. Identified wrongly. I doubt he knew the history of McAlpine when he was with the police, just someone said who he was after showing a picture and Messham thought it was him.

Also, surely the leader of the party can appoint anyone they please if it concerns the runnings of the party? Smile

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Re: UK paedophilia scandal

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:24 pm

see my above edit add! Very Happy

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Re: UK paedophilia scandal

Post by Ally on Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:37 pm

Hang on...does this mean I was right? Suspect

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Re: UK paedophilia scandal

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:40 pm

You are going to make me say it arent you?.....Fine. Yes, you were right.
More or less.
Well ok, he was not an MP- you were right about that.
But he did sit in the Lords- so I was right about that.
Does that count? I mean I know its a tad grudging but really this is as far as the Scottish knee will bend! {{After that its a plums show}}}

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Re: UK paedophilia scandal

Post by Mrs Figg on Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:51 pm

no plums thanks. pale

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Re: UK paedophilia scandal

Post by Orwell on Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:06 am

Tories and Depravity? Suspect But they take the Moral high ground....? Shocked

(I do so much want to sing:

Tories and Depravity,
Tories and Depravity,
Go together like a horse and carriage
do do-do doo-doo doooo..."


But shan't as this is surely far too serious a thread to Forumshireize!)


I'm reminded of child brides, actually. The world does have it's sicker side, but at least it's legal in some countries, which, presumably makes it right.... Oh yes, female circumcism comes to mind too for some reason... Ahhh conservative values.... Bless Eru.

Anyway, isn't the real victim here those Tories (most of them) who have to do what they really like doing out of sight of the public? And, worse still, are morally obliged to preach standards of behaviour publicly which they don't uphold privately. Poor things, what! Sad

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Re: UK paedophilia scandal

Post by azriel on Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:33 am

Ah yes, & all those sleepless nights spent working out "how NOT to be caught", But there again they hire minions to do the "working out" for them ! Thus shifting blame when "shit hits fan", Have you not seen "Yes Minister" ? (TV) A little insight into the shenanigans that are a daily workload.

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Re: UK paedophilia scandal

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:55 pm

Another Yes Minister fan! cheers (are you sure your family doesnt have a touch of the Tyrants about them?)

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