Petty's Purist LotR Edits [2]

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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits [2]

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:38 pm

Blimey-long list if you wnt every single cut-

um, important cuts-

intro- its pretty much gone, no Frodo. NO Erebor no Dale. Opens the same you get Bilbo sitting at his desk, says the bit about dear Frodo I not have told you whole story blah blah- but then I spliced that with the him writting the opening line- in a hole in the ground- only I cut where Pj wanders off the text to ramble on- came back in on the last word 'comfort'- and I masked it with a panning up shot of Bag End over the 'ina hole in the ground' bit.
From there right into the good morning conversation- then the party- burping is gone- as is the big fight- seems PJ cant resolve these sort of scenes at all- so he just has everyone get angry and stand up and shout for a bit- same as the Council of Elrond in fact-so none of that- then off they go- the bet bit is gone, the flahback to moria fight is still there but Thorin kills Azog in it now, troll scene has most of the fighting removed, it goes on in the background whilst Bilbo tries to free the ponies but thats about it, parasite bit of the converation is gone, no Radagst at all, no Azog- straight onto Rivendell- no WC- onto the stone giants- you see them, throw some rocks, they hide in a cave- nothing more.
Goblin town is big cuts- no huge fall through the floor, scenes with dwarves ends when Gadalf comes in and blows away everything in a white light. Next time you see them is when Bilbo hjas ring on and they are hurrying by.

No BIlbo attacks by Goblin. No Smeagol/goblin scene and losing the ring. Bilbo gets up and just finds the Ring. Riddles scene there are a few line trims and cuts where the dialogue wa sinappropriate, slighly less duality.
Then its escape, back with the dwarves- warg atack, minus Azog, no Thorin stupid fight/ass whoping, no Bilbo killing anything in this film either- lot less faffing about in trees, no domino effect of them fallling over.
Thats the major stuff. I think.

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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits [2]

Post by David H on Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:47 pm

It's still a diamond in the rough. The footage Petty had to work with appears to have been taken with a handheld camera in a Spanish theater. The picture is a bit dark and blurry, but recognizable. The audio is muddy and includes some crowd noises, but still understandable. And as Petty mentioned, the sound synch is out. I didn't bother to correct it, just imagined I was watching a dub of a foreign film. For a first edit this worked fine, as petty is just blocking it all out for now in preparation for the DVD release. So I'd say if you want to be involved in sharing opinions that may shape the later edits, by all means download it and watch it now. It's pretty cool! cheers

On the other hand if you're wanting to see a better movie than PJ's theatrical edit, I'd recommend waiting until Petty has been through a few more drafts and has better images and soundtrack to work with.

Now as far as the actual edit, here's a first impression:

Spoiler:
It starts with Ian/Bilbo taking out the Book and writing "In a hole in the ground there lived a Hobbit...", skipping all the invented prologs. It frames what is to come as a story told by Bilbo, then gets right down to Gandalf and the Party. Perfect!
Not much of the story appears to have been changed (with the possible exception of a couple lame jokes, I think) until the company is well on the road. I think it's easier to engage with the characters with the cleaner, more linear narrative.

The story of Thorin's battle with Azog is told much more concisely, and Azog is implied to be dead. This story seems now to be told to explain why the Dwarves follow Thorin rather than to set the audience up for a family feud. I like it. It makes sense as it's been re-cut but I'm hoping a bit more footage can be salvaged and the edit smoothed, so that it's not quite as choppy. Not bad as it is, but it's a key change from PJ, so it I think it would strengthen the story by being featured more strongly.

The Troll scene seems to be mostly intact with the exception of some missing snot and fart jokes. With the cleaner edit I was now much more troubled by the fact that a whole company of dwarves just laid down their arms and agreed to be eaten at the threat of Bilbo being torn limb from limb. Don't know if that's fixable though...

The whole Dol Guldur/ Radagast/ Warg/ Orc/ Azog scenes are just completely gone, and it all works remarkably smoothly. It seems to almost imply that the secret ways to Rivendell are an extension of the Troll Cave, which isn't right if only from a pacing standpoint. But still considering what Petty had to work with, I think it came off brilliantly!

Gotta go. More to come....



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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits [2]

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Dec 28, 2012 12:03 am

Thanks David- yes this one isnt really for entertainment so much for seeing what I have in mind when I have some proper footage to work with.
Glad you liked things over all- oddly enough I think it turned out 'purer' than any of the LotR's edits did, I think, overall.

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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits [2]

Post by Mrs Figg on Fri Dec 28, 2012 12:26 am

you know Petty I would be very interested in seeing your edit of the Hobbit. But I will wait until you can get hold of a high quality edition with no spanish dubbing etc. It sounds pretty good, and all the stuff I dislike is gone. Then you have more time to get it perfect. Will you add the Erebor/Dale flashback in a later scene? its too good to be discarded completely imo, maybe it can be used sparingly later?
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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits [2]

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Dec 28, 2012 12:33 am

Its not dubbed- the sound just goes out of synch the further in yo get till is about a second out. But its in english.

The problem with Dale stuff is it has Bilbos voice over the top of it narrating-which precludes using it anywhere else.
Howver once I have got a proper eriosn to work with I might be able to seperateoff that sound track and so make use of it elsewhere.

Plus I am not sure stuff like Dale is not better left until they get there to see it- PJ in my view in LotR's to often showed the viewer stuff they shouldnt have seen until much later.

And you can always give book 1 a go instead- its only an hour long.

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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits [2]

Post by David H on Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:01 am

Pettytyrant101 wrote: I think it turned out 'purer' than any of the LotR's edits did, I think, overall.

I agree, and I think that's to PJ's credit as well as yours. I think he gave you significantly more "pure" material to work with this time.
I hope he keeps it up!

A couple more comments on the edit:
Spoiler:
I was pleased that you found some of the stone giant scene worthy. I'm hoping you'll be able to salvage a bit more by the final edit. I think it's a place in the story where a thrill is appropriate, as long as one is careful not to cross the line into ridiculousness.

The biggest flaw in the whole narrative as I see it, is that once the cave floor opens there now seems to be no clear explanation of how the dwarves are captured and Bilbo separated from the others. IMO that has to be straightened out for the sake of watchability, even if it means straying from the bath of purity.

I was in general pleased with the shorter Goblin Town, though the GG still makes me cringe. As I recall in the book the Goblins sing the "Goblin Town" song in a threatening growl as they march the captives. Not their singing it as a silly ditty as he cavorts. I don't know if it's possible, but if there is better audio of the song from another source, I could see putting it in during the forced march and skipping the GG song and dance altogether. Also, since Azog is now dead as he should be, there's no reason why Humphries should recognize Thorin. His sarcasm about, "No Mountain, Not a King, Nothing!" rang false to me, but actually the whole performance did as well, so I don't know what you can really do about that.... At least you lessened it considerably. Thank you!!!

The Bilbo Gollum scene seems to be completely intact, and anchors the story even better now that the narrative is straighter. I think I like this scene better with each viewing.

The final battle needs some polishing as well, but is really quite good. The removal of Azog and Bilbo killing an orc in hand to hand combat, as well as Thorin's sappy thankyou are gone, and I think the story is better. It had felt to me like an artificial construct tacked on to the story at the last minute to give the first film some sense of closure, but it failed. With the new edit it will flow much more smoothly to Beorn and Mirkwood. I just wish there were a way to insert "15 birds in 15 fir trees" into the audio. That would make the scene for me!

The final bird/Lonely Mtn/Smaug tease is still intact and gives a nice exit for the first part of a trilogy.

Altogether a very nice bit of editing. It gives me hope for things to come!



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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits [2]

Post by Mrs Figg on Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:03 am

Is it old Bilbo narrating the scene? I cant remember. Its a pity, I really like it, as it shows the DOS pretty well. I like seeing Dale before Smaug.
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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits [2]

Post by David H on Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:10 am

When I watched the Dale scene I couldn't help thinking it looked like your part of the world, Mrs Figg. I could imagine you having a view apartment upon the hill.

Although the Dwarf History prolog didn't make the cut in Petty's edit of Pt 1, I wouldn't be surprised to see parts of it come back in the next movie when the company actually gets to Dale. Petty likes a chronological narrative much like Tolkien's own. He's done a lot of this kind of reshuffling to very good effect in his LotR edits.
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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits [2]

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:14 am

David-

Spoiler:
The biggest flaw in the whole narrative as I see it, is that once the cave floor opens there now seems to be no clear explanation of how the dwarves are captured and Bilbo separated from the others.- David

Is that not kind of the same? The dwarves get swarmed by a sea of goblins and led off, Bibo is sort of unnoticed and slinks off- Im sure I left that scene in.

Good point about Thorin- I hadnt thought of that.

I like the idea of taking the goblin song from elsewhere- I will need to check that part of the bbc radio play version out- see what I can make use of.

Thanks for watching and commenting David- all very useful.

Mrs Figg- yes its old Bilbo narrating over it.

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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits [2]

Post by Mrs Figg on Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:26 am

yes Dave its quite Northern Italian looking, very South Tyrolean, which is Italian although the people are German and speak German amongst themselves. I do like the design of Dale a lot. I would love to live in Dale if only I could find it. Very Happy this town is similar, its caled Grazzano Visconti.


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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits [2]

Post by David H on Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:10 am

Very nice Mrs Figg. sunny

Petty, I just watched that scene over...
Spoiler:
Technically the fall into Goblin Town and Bilbo getting separated is all there, but watching it casually I still lost track of Bilbo, even though I knew what was going on ahead of time. For me, losing track of Bilbo is a cardinal sin! Not your fault. PJ didn't give you much to work with but insane falls, I know.

If I were telling the story I'd try to follow Bilbo until he is out of the fray and lost in the caverns, about the time he discovers the ring, then cut back to the dwarves and goblins to show passage of time before introducing Gollum. Don't know if practical though.
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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits [2]

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Dec 28, 2012 8:52 am

I will tak another look at that bit David and see if its possible to stay with Bilbo until the Ring find before cutting the dwarves and GreatGoblin.

Of course come the EE's I should have more to work with- and as Pj tends to cutcharacter moments rather than action for theatrical releases thnigs might be better (or worse- depends if he cut Tolkien character stuff or just more farting and belching jokes)

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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits [2]

Post by Mrs Figg on Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:29 pm

I think when the EE comes out you will be able to do far more. There will probably be more Rivendell stuff so you can cut out the feasting, if you havent already done so. I cant wait to see it finished. I think there is a lot of good stuff among the sillyness. Martin Freeman and Andy Serkis do a good job. when does the EE come out I wonder.
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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits [2]

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:38 pm

I cut the lettuce joke I know that much- sadly once the WC stuff is gone there is only the swords bit and the moon runes left for Rivendell- and Bilbo isnt really the focus of any of it- I could actually have done with the scene in publicity shots of Bilbo wandering about- seeing Anduril.
Without more stuff in Rivendell thats just Bilbo falling in love with the place, it doesnt seem to make any impression on him at all.

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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits [2]

Post by Mrs Figg on Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:52 pm

I hope the EE has Bilbo finding Anduril, but wait, cant you use bits from a trailer or tv spot? the ones with Rivendell, but I suppose the quality is so very different from the version you have it would look odd.
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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits [2]

Post by halfwise on Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:38 pm

On on vacation with internet access, but sadly don't feel I can prevail on my host's wifi to download the Petty edits. Couple more weeks.

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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits [2]

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:40 pm

Prevail Halfwise! Prevail -its not a huge amount- only 800 odd meg- how bloody tight arsed are they? :{{I may be influenced by my scotshobbit habit of making sure you get way with what you can and hope not to get caught. Twisted Evil }}}

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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits [2]

Post by Ringdrotten on Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:16 pm

My thoughts after watching your edit:

Spoiler:
Excellent work, Petty! Very Happy I don’t have much to add to what David has pointed out, but I too am very impressed by this edit. Very glad that you managed to save some of the Stone Giants scene, and I loved your version of Goblin town (also liked how you delayed the introduction of Gollum – much better this way). The dwarves’ arrival at Rivendell was nicely cut too, it’s hardly (if at all) possible to notice that they’re captured like in the theatrical cut.

I agree that this must be the «purest» of all your edits so far, but then again, Jackson didn't leave much out this time, only he went crazy on adding stuff (which is good, in a way, since you get more material to work with!). Your edit shows, I think, that the film makers do a lot of things right, but the good stuff is overshadowed by the bad. When the crappy stuff is edited out, this first part of the trilogy really is very good. And it gives me hope that we’ll see a fantastic hobbit movie yet - I just hope the two next ones are equally «edit-friendly» so you can work your magic on them too Smile Thanks for sharing, and I look forward to your first cut after the EE hit the shelves - hopefully I'll be able to give you better and more constructive feedback then Wink

I'm going to watch the Hobbit again tomorrow in 3D (it's more for the sake of being social than for enjoying the film). I'll keep your edit in the back of my head and comment if any clever thoughts come to mind Smile

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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits [2]

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:53 pm

Thanks Ringdrotten- Ive already got some ideas- like when I have a proper version I can take old Bilbos dialogue of the books opeinng 'in a hole inthe ground' line and put whatever visuals I like to it- so start on an exterior pan up on bag End thats already there- but put it first and then use the shot inside the hobbit hole, but reverse it so its going back into the corridor for the description bit of the line. If you can envision what I mean. drunken

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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits [2]

Post by Ringdrotten on Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:57 pm

That sounds great Very Happy Is there any hope for the prologue in any of your edits? I quite liked the visuals and the backstory, and Dale was nice too.

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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits [2]

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:02 pm

I had hoped to find somewhere in the party scene to put it, thinking there must be some place in the conversation it would be able to get to it- but I just couldnt find a place to put it- the only other option I considered was attaching it to the Battle of arseandbull (ok I can never rmemeber how to spell it!) but I thoughti tmade he cut away over long and no longer fitted with the scenes ending- which is them all standing looking at Thorin.
So in the end I left it out- as its not sticlly speaking necessary- it might be more appropriately used in a later film when these matters are sure to arise again in some fashion. So it might make an appearence yet.

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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits [2]

Post by Ringdrotten on Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:17 pm

Fingers crossed Wink It's a small thing, though. What you have done so far looks very promising, and I can hardly wait for the day when the final edit is ready Smile

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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits [2]

Post by Mrs Figg on Sat Dec 29, 2012 4:33 pm

sounds good Petty. do please try to keep the Dale and Erebor scenes. they are nice.
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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits [2]

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sat Dec 29, 2012 4:59 pm


Did you try to downnload it Mrs Figg to see if it would work for you?

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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits [2]

Post by Mrs Figg on Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:13 pm

Embarassed dont know how. No
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