warrior princess ?

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Re: warrior princess ?

Post by Eldorion on Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:56 am

I agree that Eowyn gets the short end of the stick in the second half of ROTK -- actually, something like half the cast just gets dumped by the wayside after the Pelennor, especially in the theatrical version -- but the additions you mention are all in ROTK near the end of Eowyn's character arc. PJ clearly wanted to flesh out her background, along with Eomer's, which is why he added so much more Rohan stuff to the first half of TTT. I think this move improved the films given the choices he had already made about what parts of the story he wanted to emphasize (i.e., not Hobbits).
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Re: warrior princess ?

Post by azriel on Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:19 pm

There are clues given off from Eowyn towards Aragorn. The long lingering around him, the way she holds his gaze when they make eye contact, Her face lights up with a glowing smile at him, She gives off vibes & as Aragorn LOOKS like he sorta responds, she feels there is a chance. He comforts her & she feels safe in the hope. Sometimes you have no idea how for a woman a touch can be !! If you fancy a guy,& you touch him or he holds your hand, it DOES make your heart skip a beat ! it can be a foolish thing to accept on your behalf,as the guy may be just being a "gentleman", like covering you with a blanket, not cos he loves you back, but so your not cold !!
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Re: warrior princess ?

Post by Mrs Figg on Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:01 pm

I find they way PJ filmed Eowyn and Aragorn to be very beautiful. Doomed Love like Tristran and Isolde



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Re: warrior princess ?

Post by Mrs Figg on Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:16 pm


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Re: warrior princess ?

Post by chris63 on Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:17 pm

I concur Mrs Figg Smile

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Re: warrior princess ?

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:59 pm

as Aragorn LOOKS like he sorta responds,- Azriel

I never liked that in the film- in the book her attention only causes him pain and sympathy for her.
In the film he seems to be thinking about going for it to the point Theoden seems to have got the impression they are an item -Theoden to Eowyn-"I am pleased for you. He is a noble man."

Always makes me think film Aragorn is a bit of a dick to toy with a women so obviously going through an emotional time.

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Re: warrior princess ?

Post by halfwise on Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:12 pm

I didn't think he seemed to be toying with her. One wants to be friendly to someone who is infatuated with you, but it nearly always is read the wrong way. if you are not friendly it comes off as a serious slap in the face. Difficult situation.

In the film they had Arwen leaving for Valinor, so he couldn't say the two of them were together, which is the only approach that typically works. Given that story element in the film, I think he handled it okay. I can't blame them for wanting to make Arwen head for the Havens then turn around: the long exodus of the elves was an important element of middle earth that I think was worth showing.

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Re: warrior princess ?

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:43 pm

I dunno Halfwise, there are a few scenes where I would agree with Azriel that he 'sorta looks like he repsonds;- enough to seemingly give Theoden that impression too. That scenes always felt out of place to me I took the "I am happy for you line" out of my edit as it didnt seem ambigous at all- Eowyn offers the cup to Aragorn, they touch hands, he drinks, theres some flirtousness going on- she goes to Theoden he looks at her and says "I am happy for you, he is an honourable man"- which just seemed to be taking the whole thing a step to far to me.

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Re: warrior princess ?

Post by halfwise on Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:06 pm

I didn't like that line either, and given how noncommittally Viggo was playing the part it didn't seem to fit.

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Re: warrior princess ?

Post by azriel on Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:06 pm

Yeah,tricky dicky really. I do feel Aragorn gave Eowyn a ray of light. Body language can cause a shed load of trouble if not handled properly! The Cup holding scene for intsance, they BOTH look into each others eyes, so, as its often the guy thats in control, (p-l-a-y-e-r-!) Eowyn MUST have felt a twing ! The smile she gives says all that is in her heart. Her substitute father,Theodan, obviously wants her to be happy, & loved. No wonder he says Aragorn is honourable etc, even HE thought there was a chance of a good relationship. AND maybe to unite 2 Houses ? Gondor & Rohan.

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Re: warrior princess ?

Post by Mrs Figg on Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:39 pm

I just read on Wikki that they actually filmed the whole of Faramir's and Eowyns wedding, but they cut it, and no stills have ever been released.

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I also read that originally Tolkien meant for Aragorn to marry Eowyn. Sad


Last edited by Mrs Figg on Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:53 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: warrior princess ?

Post by azriel on Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:45 pm

I read something about that also just today ! What a crock of shit ! I would have loved to see that as well ! Banghead

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Re: warrior princess ?

Post by Norc on Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:07 pm

i was going to pay attention to this thread, as there suddenly is a serious tolkien debate going on, but then.. it just evolved so quicly and it is so much catching up todo !
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Re: warrior princess ?

Post by David H on Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:19 pm

Watching through the middle half of TT yesterday for the first time in a couple years, I have to confess that as much as I still hate the warg attack and Aragorn's needless cliff dive, I choked up when he was floating down the river and my eyes got damp when Brego nuzzled him and knelt down to carry him home. I know it's cheesy manipulative "Lassie Come Home" stuff, but it gets me. What can I say? Embarassed
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Re: warrior princess ?

Post by azriel on Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:50 pm

I think thats touching David, How I read it is that you have a soft spot for animals & the unconditional love,trust & loyalty we get from them. More than the dumwit state Aragorn got himself into ! Very Happy

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Re: warrior princess ?

Post by Mrs Figg on Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:31 pm

I read somewhere that the passing of the cup and drinking from it in medieval times has a symbolic meaning, not sure exactly but i think it meant people were betrothed, so if thats true and Aragorn took the cup from Eowyn no wonder Theoden thought they were betrothed.

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Re: warrior princess ?

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:45 pm

Thats even worse! Evil or Very Mad Aragorn rode with Thengel, he knew Rohan and its customs- that would make the meaning of that scene that Aragorn knowingly betroths himself to Eowyn- which makes him a right prick at their parting then! Evil or Very Mad

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Re: warrior princess ?

Post by Amarië on Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:51 pm

I saw this thread yesterday and hoped to make a very intelligent post about Grima being the reason why Eowyn saw no future for herself. Going to war and hoping for an honorable death was her last resort, not a childhood dream. It was either that, or end up as Grima's wife or prisoner. But that discussion ended early on page 1 it seems.

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Re: warrior princess ?

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:53 pm

And this being Forumshire Amarie a thread can go backwards as easy as sideways!

"Grima being the reason why Eowyn saw no future for herself"

Do you mean in book or film or both?

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Re: warrior princess ?

Post by Amarië on Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:56 pm

I have almost managed to block out most of what happened in the movies.

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Re: warrior princess ?

Post by Norc on Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:04 pm

i just want to point out that filmatically (and personally) the TT movie is the best one. Rotk is way too long and drags itself towards the end because of too many endings, though ofcourse that comes down to the book (ofc it works perfectly in the book) and fotr idk, it's great too, though.. okay, there is nothing bad about it Smile but i like tt best. (looking at it like a standing piece of it's own and not comparing, one shouldn't do that too much, because it's hard to be 100%book and it is called an adaption for a reason, and one has to ask "does this movie stand on it's own, taking away the book?")
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Re: warrior princess ?

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:11 pm

I have almost managed to block out most of what happened in the movies.- Amarie

That a girl! Very Happy

Eowyn was promised to Grima by Saruman, presumably with Grima acting as Saruman puppet ruler of Rohan, had everything gone Saruman way.
Eowyn wouldnt have know about this of course but she may have suspected it.

I think its worth recapping Gandalfs word to Eomer at her sickbed-

'My friend you had horses, and deeds of arms, and the free fields; but she, born in the body of a maid, had a spirit and courage at least the match of yours. Yet she was doomed to wait upon an old man, whom she loved as a father, and watch him falling into a mean dishonoured dotage; and her part seemed to her more ignoble than that of the staff he leaned on.
Think you that Wormtongue had poison only for Theoden's ears?
Dotard! What is the house of Eorl but a thatched barn where brigands drinkin the reek, and their brats roll on the floor among the dogs?
Have you not heard those words before? Saruman spoke them, the teacher of Wormtongue. Though I do not doubt that Wormtongue at home wrapped their meaning in terms more cunning. My lord, if your sister's love for you, and her will still bent on her duty, had not restrained her lips, you might have heard even such things as these escape them. But who knows what she spoke to the darkness, alone, in the bitter watches of the night, when all her life seemed shrinking, and the walls of her bower closing in about her, a hutch to trammel some wild thing in?'

I hthik it would have been intresting in the film to have seen this releationship between Eowyn and Wormtongue, where he poisons her ear as well with the idea of turning her against her own people. She might have willingly become his wife by the end if Gandalf hadn't turned up.

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Re: warrior princess ?

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:13 pm

the TT movie is the best one.- Norc

Of all my purist edits then Norc my version of TT is the one I would be most interested in your thoughts on- it was my least favourite of the 3 films but is now my favourite of my edits.
It would be interesting to know what someone who thought it was the best of the films therefore makes of my edit.

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Re: warrior princess ?

Post by azriel on Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:15 pm

She did look like she was gonna succumb when that sleaze bag Grima stroked her face & said she looked like a pale spring morning etc ? if only for a second. He did have a way with words ! (yuk..Grima ?!)

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Re: warrior princess ?

Post by Mrs Figg on Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:15 pm

I like TT the least. theres too much wargage. But its still great. When I hear people critisize LOTR for me its like hearing that someone has chopped up the Mona Lisa because they dont like the way Leonardo painted folded hands. But I dont feel that about TH because I genuinely think its sub standard derivative and nowhere near as good as the previous films.

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