Horses in middle earth

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Re: Horses in middle earth

Post by Norc on Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:55 pm

Eldorion wrote:
Norc wrote:i tried googling around, but i can't find a proper source or figure out where it's taken.. Sad

Google reverse image search suggests that it came from this photo blog:

http://onethingbeautiful.blogspot.com/2010/12/winter-ocean.html
yeah, i know, but i doubt it... doesn't seem very legit, anyways there is no place source..

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Re: Horses in middle earth

Post by Norc on Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:57 pm

Eldorion wrote:
Norc wrote:what on earth are you on about, eldo?

You're gonna have to be a bit more specific than that. Razz

{{{And FFS, delete some of the GIFs in your signature.  For the love of God, please. Sad}}}
spesific? the ros thing for one thing, and has there been more geoducks?!


{{{pfwaah nope}}}

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Re: Horses in middle earth

Post by Eldorion on Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:07 pm

Norc wrote:spesific? the ros thing for one thing, and has there been more geoducks?!

The Ros thing was following up on Elthir's post about "the problem of Ros", which as he put is a Tolkien linguistics joke.  The phrase comes from the title of a chapter in HoME Vol. XII where Tolkien wrote at length about whether the Sindarin element -ros, used in many names in The Silmarillion, meant spray/foam (as in the sea) or red/red-brown (as in the hair color).  He had used the element in various names to represent both ideas, and was very bothered by the inconsistency when he realized the scope of it late in life, especially since several words using -ros had already appeared in published material.  (Also, I wanted to use Elthir's leaf avatar for nipple censorship. Razz)

Dave has been posting geoducks like crazy lately.

{{{pfwaah nope}}}

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Re: Horses in middle earth

Post by Norc on Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:13 pm

oh ok that explaines it. so Raudros could been "red soray/foam" or "red red/brown"?

geoducks reminds me of something i stumbler across on tumblr that burnt my eyes.............

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Re: Horses in middle earth

Post by David H on Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:16 pm

Norc wrote:no but i've seen shells that look like the shells on geoducks, although i have never seen a geoduck before in my life, like is that thing even real?!

We have several varieties of clams that have similar shells here, though they're not geoducks. They're called Horse Clams, which is why they belong in this topic. Nod 

Wikipedia wrote:Tresus capax is a species of saltwater clam, marine bivalve mollusk, common name the fat gaper, in the family Mactridae.[1] It also shares the common name horse clam with Tresus nuttallii a species which is similar in morphology and lifestyle. Both species are somewhat similar to the Geoduck (Panopea generosa which is in the family Hiatellidae), though smaller, with shells up to eight inches long (20 cm), weight to 3–4 lb (1.4–1.8 kg). The two species commonly known as horse clams inhabit the Pacific coast intertidal zones: the pacific gaper, T. nuttallii, more abundant south to California; and the fat gaper, T. capax, more abundant north to Alaska. Both have oval and chalky-white or yellow shells with patches of brown periostracum (leather-like skin) on the shell. These clams are also commonly called gapers because their shells are flared around the siphon and do not completely close, rather like geoduck clams. Like geoducks, they are unable to completely retract the siphon within the shell, though less flagrantly as the siphon on Tresus species is not as large.

"Flagrant" is a good word for geoducks, I think. Razz 

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Re: Horses in middle earth

Post by Eldorion on Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:21 pm

Norc wrote:oh ok that explaines it. so Raudros could been "red soray/foam" or "red red/brown"?

Well Rauros was intended to use the foam meaning, but Maedhros used the -ros ending to refer to the color of his hair. Basically the foam and the red were two separate ideas and Tolkien just sort of forgot that he'd used the one when he came up with the other, and didn't notice the contradiction until later.

geoducks reminds me of something i stumbler across on tumblr that burnt my eyes.............

You go on and on about tumblr yet you pretend not to like the seedy side of it. Wink
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Re: Horses in middle earth

Post by Norc on Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:35 pm

David H wrote:
Norc wrote:no but i've seen shells that look like the shells on geoducks, although i have never seen a geoduck before in my life, like is that thing even real?!

We have several varieties of clams that have similar shells here, though they're not geoducks. They're called Horse Clams, which is why they belong in this topic. Nod 
ah, yes, horseclams, but they're not so square scratch geoducks also looks like horsedicks 

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Re: Horses in middle earth

Post by Norc on Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:40 pm

Eldorion wrote:
Norc wrote:oh ok that explaines it. so Raudros could been "red soray/foam" or "red red/brown"?

Well Rauros was intended to use the foam meaning, but Maedhros used the -ros ending to refer to the color of his hair.  Basically the foam and the red were two separate ideas and Tolkien just sort of forgot that he'd used the one when he came up with the other, and didn't notice the contradiction until later.
yeah, i got that bit, but i mean that Rauros now can be read as both red foam and red red... or does Rau/Raud mean a whole nother thing? scratch

geoducks reminds me of something i stumbler across on tumblr that burnt my eyes.............

You go on and on about tumblr yet you pretend not to like the seedy side of it. Wink

because i fucking don't that's why. but it's everywhere. like i am scrolling around looking for cute butterflies and suddenly i have a mylittlepony-vagina and but-boobs in my face. no thank you.

(also funny story, i have a friend who on school projects uses tumblr to find pictures because the pictures on google are just really bad compared to tumblr. but she forgot to click that safety thing (because she normally uses tumblr for foster the people and cats). so she was comparing the speeches of Obama and Bush. She found lots of cool pictures of Obama but.. well, you can imagine what happened when she typed in "bush"............... and she was at school which made it worse)

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Re: Horses in middle earth

Post by Eldorion on Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:44 pm

Norc wrote:yeah, i got that bit, but i mean that Rauros now can be read as both red foam and red red... or does Rau/Raud mean a whole nother thing? scratch

According to The Lord of the Rings: A Reader's Companion (basically all the annotations for LOTR that Wayne Hammond and Christina Scull made while editing the 50th Anniversary Edition), Tolkien wrote that Rauros meant "roaring spray" in his original, unpublished index to LOTR.

(also funny story, i have a friend who on school projects uses tumblr to find pictures because the pictures on google are just really bad compared to tumblr. but she forgot to click that safety thing (because she normally uses tumblr for foster the people and cats). so she was comparing the speeches of Obama and Bush. She found lots of cool pictures of Obama but.. well, you can imagine what happened when she typed in "bush"............... and she was at school which made it worse)

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Re: Horses in middle earth

Post by Norc on Thu Jul 03, 2014 11:06 pm

ah, ok. it's just that Rauros sounds like Rødros which is a genuine place.

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Re: Horses in middle earth

Post by Mrs Figg on Thu Jul 03, 2014 11:48 pm

 No  Moffat has to go
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Re: Horses in middle earth

Post by Norc on Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:08 am

ask nicely.

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Re: Horses in middle earth

Post by Mrs Figg on Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:10 am

pretty pretty please. I beg you.  Neutral 
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Re: Horses in middle earth

Post by Bluebottle on Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:11 am

"It doesn't see sunlight for long, mate."  Very Happy 

Well, I think you should keep it.  Razz 

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Re: Horses in middle earth

Post by Norc on Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:14 am

what are the arguments for and against?

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Re: Horses in middle earth

Post by Mrs Figg on Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:19 am

big ugly head that takes years to upload on my computer.
theres no 'fors'
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Re: Horses in middle earth

Post by Norc on Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:30 am

like that. no big ugly head.

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Re: Horses in middle earth

Post by Bluebottle on Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:39 am

No big ugly head.  Nod 

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Re: Horses in middle earth

Post by Mrs Figg on Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:39 am

oh gawd what have I done?  pale 
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Re: Horses in middle earth

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:41 am

Well you know who to blame when your laptop melts Figg- yourself!!!

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Re: Horses in middle earth

Post by Elthir on Fri Jul 04, 2014 3:41 am

yeah, i got that bit, but i mean that Rauros now can be read as both red foam and red red... or does Rau/Raud mean a whole nother thing?

JRRT had two words, both ros, with different meanings, but [he wrote] the problem was that it is difficult to accept these homophones in the Eldarin languages because they have unconnectable meanings. His other problem concerned certain words in real world languages being too close to the Elvish words, but he noted that this was the lesser difficulty.

Even back in Etymologies* [mid to late 1930s, early 1940s] there was a somewhat confusing 'ros scenario' but Maedhros [with -dh- instead of -d-] had a different meaning then, meaning 'Pale Glitter' [actually the derivation of Maedhros at this time is a bit harder to pin down, but that was one of the meanings]. And I guess this scenario was easier to accept, or late in life Tolkien just desired more 'connected' meanings here.

Anyway to solve this JRR made the ros meaning 'foam' a Beorian word not an Eldarin word... leaving the 'red-brown' word in Eldarin [Maedros]...

... but oops, another problem, Tolkien had already published the name Cair Andros as Sindarin [and Rauros], an Eldarin language. And so he wrote 'Most of this fails' on the new text with the proposed solution. Thus ros 'spray, foam' had to be Eldarin too, or remain Eldarin that is, along with the other ros in Maedros.

And you can lead a grey horse to the grey winter Sea, but you can't make him the colour of Sunlit foam... necessarily [Asfaloth related linguistic joke].

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*the scenario in Etymologies, in part...

ROS1- distil, drip Q rosse fine rain, dew. N rhoss rain, cf. name Celebros Silver rain of a waterfall (...)' [Celebros is previously translated 'Silver Foam']

ROS2- Dor. rost plain, wide land between mountains; cf. Nivrost [NIB], Radhrost [RAD].

RUS- flash, glitter of metal. Q. russe corruscation, + [+ means 'poetic or archaic'] sword-blade; ON russe polished metal (N + [poetic or archaic] rhoss chiefly found in names as Maedhros [MAD], Findros, Celebros etc, owing to coalescence with ROS1)'
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Re: Horses in middle earth

Post by Eldorion on Fri Jul 04, 2014 4:53 am

Thank you so much, Norc! Kissing

{{{And while I'm not a fan of sig GIFs in general, I'm glad that you chose the adorable owl as one of the two to stay. I love you}}}
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Re: Horses in middle earth

Post by Norc on Fri Jul 04, 2014 11:04 am

You're welcome figgy Smile also thanks elthir that was really interesting Smile

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Re: Horses in middle earth

Post by chris63 on Sat Jul 05, 2014 5:58 am


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Re: Horses in middle earth

Post by azriel on Sat Jul 05, 2014 9:06 am

He is beautiful  Very Happy

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