Religous debates and questions [2]

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Religous debates and questions [2]

Post by azriel on Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:17 pm

Nod 
Is that guy a masochist ?

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Re: Religous debates and questions [2]

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:52 pm

Not to be picky but man wasnt created with original sin- we were created perfect until a woman came along and screwed the entire universe by falling for the patter of a talking snake.
I think its quite clear where the blame lies! Nod 

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Re: Religous debates and questions [2]

Post by azriel on Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:57 pm

Fook off ! We are the innocent party here, way to trusting ! Not our fault a demon disguised as a serpent (& probably MALE) spoke sweet nothings in Eve's ear ! If Adam was more of a man He would have shown more interest ! just like now, do men REALLY show interest in their women ? Adam was just as stupid, thinking of his guts, as per usual, (if it isnt about a leg over !) He ate the apple also !

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Re: Religous debates and questions [2]

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Aug 14, 2013 4:31 pm

Not my fault its all womanhood's fault!
A woman nicked the apple, then talked poor Adam into eating it against his better judgement- probably used feminine wiles on him too- and considering he had to give up a rib so God could make her in the first place (must have run out of dust!) its clear Eve was not only entirely to blame but ungrateful too. Nod 
If it wasnt for her we'd all be immortal and there would be no sickness or disease in the world.
This is why you dont get to be priests.

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Re: Religous debates and questions [2]

Post by azriel on Wed Aug 14, 2013 5:20 pm

Bollocks ! Sorry, but, I aint having it !
Adam and Eve, according to the creation myth of Abrahamic religions, were the first man and woman. These religions teach that all humans are descended from Adam and Eve.

In the Book of Genesis of the Bible, chapters one through five, there are two creation narratives with two distinct perspectives. In the first, Adam and Eve were created together in God's image and jointly given instructions to multiply and to be stewards over everything else that God had made. In the second narrative, God fashions Adam from dust and places him in the Garden of Eden where he is to have dominion over the plants and animals. God places a tree in the garden which he prohibits Adam from eating. Eve is later created from one of Adam's ribs to be Adam's companion. However, the serpent tricks Eve into eating from it. God curses only the serpent and the ground. He prophetically tells the woman and the man what will be the consequences of their sin of disobeying God. Then he banishes the man (and presumably also the woman) from the Garden of Eden.

Interpretations and beliefs regarding Adam and Eve and the story revolving around them vary across religions and sects.
Not in my own words maybe, but saved me typing ! I see God tells ADAM first not to eat the apple ? but he did ! So Adam had fair warning ! The serpent TRICKS Eve, (just as men still do ) but even God could see it wasnt all her fault as he blamed serpent ! Then I see its goody two shoes ADAM that gets the old heave ho ? Not coming up to the mark wasnt he ? What for arguments sake would you then say if it was 2 MEN in the garden of Eden instead of one woman & one man ? There are same sex animals that can reproduce ? And wasnt it Gods idea to rip a rib whether Adam liked it or not to make a woman ? & isnt God depicted as a man ? making all the decisions ? not a pre-menstrual woman having a hissy fit ?

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Re: Religous debates and questions [2]

Post by azriel on Wed Aug 14, 2013 6:02 pm

WFT ? Dont know why Im getting het up, There wasnt an Adam & Eve, or a Garden of Eden, It all goes back even before the pounding of the Dinosaurs ! Pokey Tongue 

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Re: Religous debates and questions [2]

Post by halfwise on Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:29 pm

If there were two men in the garden of Eden they would never have found the apple tree because they couldn't bring themselves to ask directions. If they DID find the tree they'd have a big fight over it, calling each other names and knockin' the stuffing out of each other, during which they would have earned each other's respect for life and end up being fast friends who scare the animals by seeing who can belch the loudest.

If two women were in the garden of Eden they would have been all chummy right off the bat, helped each other find the tree, until when the first one takes a bite the other would mutter (just barely loudly enough to be heard) "That explains her weight problem". This would devolve into an escalating behind the back name calling, during which they would become implacable enemies for life.

But it was a man and a woman. They just say things about each other, roll their eyes and put up with it. The man even tries to behave himself. Genius solution, really.

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Re: Religous debates and questions [2]

Post by Mrs Figg on Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:36 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Not to be picky but man wasnt created with original sin- we were created perfect until a woman came along and screwed the entire universe by falling for the patter of a talking snake.
I think its quite clear where the blame lies! Nod 
so you would rather have remained thick but happy in Paradise? Woman helped you become clever and crabbit. dufus. Rolling Eyes

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Re: Religous debates and questions [2]

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:58 pm

so you would rather have remained thick but happy in Paradise?- Mrs Figg

Would explain my continual attempts through buckie to get back to that state of mind!

Although Ive got to give you the crabbit one- I am sure that does only exist because of women (that is what you are saying isnt it?)

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Re: Religous debates and questions [2]

Post by Mrs Figg on Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:15 pm

no

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Re: Religous debates and questions [2]

Post by chris63 on Thu Aug 15, 2013 5:40 am


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Re: Religous debates and questions [2]

Post by azriel on Thu Aug 15, 2013 8:12 am

Very Happy 

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Re: Religous debates and questions [2]

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Thu Aug 15, 2013 5:53 pm

You have a knack Chris for finding oddly appropriate gifs- I am beginning to suspect you re making them yourself!

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Re: Religous debates and questions [2]

Post by chris63 on Fri Aug 16, 2013 2:13 am


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Re: Religous debates and questions [2]

Post by chris63 on Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:14 am


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Re: Religous debates and questions [2]

Post by azriel on Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:45 am

lol! 

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Re: Religous debates and questions [2]

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:07 pm

Funny but not entirely accurate- its forgets about the Children of Men that the sons breed with (granted there is a big question over who they are,where they came from ect, but still they are there) then of course there are the ever mysterious Nephlim.

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Re: Religous debates and questions [2]

Post by azriel on Thu Aug 22, 2013 4:48 pm

Oh shat Petty, to be honest, I just dont believe in a God, any God, I will NEVER EVER disrespect anyone who does, thats purely WRONG ! my opinions are my own & how dare I even think of making silly remarks of others ! I have several friends & each has a religion of their own. I have not read any religious works tho the Koran seems interesting from what tiny bit a friend has told me off ? I wouldnt know who begat who, or, who is related, who did or didnt do what. My feelings are more...organic ? spiritual ? I go by seasons, nature, even by watching birds !

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Re: Religous debates and questions [2]

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Thu Aug 22, 2013 4:59 pm

I dont either Azriel- Im agnostic- I dont believe any human religion or concept of God to be true- they dont know anything more than the rest of us do.
But I dont completely dismiss the possibility in a universe like this, viewed from the perspective of a lifeform with a tiny lifespan with limited perception filters like me, that there isnt more going on than I will ever conceive of.

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Re: Religous debates and questions [2]

Post by azriel on Thu Aug 22, 2013 5:09 pm

No, I think your right, I try to keep an open mind, but, more on the lines of Something after death ? strange things we just CANNOT explain ? I dont believe some guy thought, Mmmm lets make a planet & call it Earth, oh yeah, add a man & a woman. Why go to the bother of creating Dinosaurs then ? we have solid evidence of them but, I havnt come across solid evidence of anything "Godly" ? It all seems a bit "he said,she said"?

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Re: Religous debates and questions [2]

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Thu Aug 22, 2013 5:53 pm

I go by seasons, nature, even by watching birds ! - Azriel

You might like this tale then- many years ago, in my early twenties, when I was heavily into a mystic shamanistic approach to life smoking a lot of dope and doing hallucinogens, basically trying my damnedest to make up for having being born to late for the sixties.
I was walking home between the town Im in now and the neighbouring village where I grew up- its about a two mile walk.
As you leave the village you are going up a long slope, which eventually crests a hill and goes down steeply before leveling off.
I was approaching the top of this hill, probably about 600 yards away from the crest and trying a mediation technique for use while walking, when a flight of birds took off from the field on my right and went by over head- I saw them, looked at them and instantly knew that two guys who I had trouble with involving on the previous encounter an instance with a pool cue or two, and who were basically violent neds, were coming towards me over the crest of the hill- completely out of my visual sight.
I cant explain in any way how I knew save to say that it felt like something about the manner in which the flock were flying passed the information directly to my body- there was no visions, no images, no words, no conscious side to it all- I went from walking along meditating to  in the next stride having that knowledge.

The other odd thing was it altered my mood noticeably, it put my body into what I would best describe as a state of readiness and ambivalence.
Normally if these two people in particular had suddenly appeared over the hill, catching me unawares it would almost certainly have shown on my face or body movements that the two of them together against me scared me. I would have been expecting trouble, and given the odds, a solid and unpleasant beating, if I was lucky.
As it was the mood I had gone into meant I walked straight passed them, I looked one in the eye as I did so and he stammered a hello at me. The same one who previously had tried to crack my skull with a pool cue and who had parted threatening to get me the next time he saw me.

The moral is- pay attention to the birds! Nod

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Re: Religous debates and questions [2]

Post by azriel on Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:13 pm

I like that story & I believe you ! Ive had some odd experiences in my life, things that sound to daft to repeat or things that I can only say I knew about cos I FELT them somehow ? Sometimes I wonder if its all really easy if we knew more about our brain capacity or, if we are evolving to a higher mental state but we just cant recognise it yet ? we arent excepting it yet ? "our brain wants to but our minds are lagging behind"? Its a puzzler. Have I had de ja vu ? you hear of people saying they felt they have lived before ? & some say for certain they have ! Ive had that funny feeling i KNOW whats coming next or being said next or whats round the corner of a place Ive NEVER been to ? or is it subliminal messages that our eyes saw once & our brain remembers ?

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Re: Religous debates and questions [2]

Post by chris63 on Fri Aug 23, 2013 4:29 am

Good conversation you two. Liked it Thumbs Up 

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Re: Religous debates and questions [2]

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Aug 23, 2013 7:35 am

if we are evolving to a higher mental state but we just cant recognise it yet ? - Azriel

My own view is more that we forget how we once were.
At some very distant point in human history we were closer to animal than human- by that I mean we acted largely instinctively and had no complex internalized dialogue.
That in shamanism is what is called Silent Knowledge- or knowing without words- and they think it was our original state of being (the thinking behind how it works is pretty simple- in a shaman view the universe is first a place of energy fields, and secondly one of objects- from their point of view modern humans fatal flaw is in their everyday perception of treating the universe as if it were the other way round- a place of physical objects first then of energy. And energy can pass information to other energy much easier and more efficiently than trying to get through all the filters of modern human perception)
For this sort of Shamanism the biggest problem with humans is our internal dialogue- we reinforce our idea of the world by consistently telling ourselves it is this way inside our heads- creating a box we trap ourselves in with a vastly decreased perceptional range.

From the Shaman point of view all that happened to me was the mediation I was doing successfully shut down my internal dialogue (something they called stopping the world- as you literally stop the constant updating and reaffirming of whats out there- and stopping the world was what the meditation I was trying to do was for- it involves defocusing your eyes and walking whilst staring just above the horizon, this gives a defocused but incredibly wide view, normally our eyes flit from thing to thing to build up a a picture, doing this overwhelms it with a lot of tricky to work out information, ideally to the point where the internal dialogue simply shuts down) in this case it allowed my energy to interact directly with the energy of what I focused on- the flock of birds- and their collective energy contained within it the information about the two approaching threats- who were in the flying birds line of sight not mine- and my energy, which as its energy can also interact directly with space and time saw the varying possibilities of what was coming and flashed up the warning to my conscious mind, thus preparing me and ensuring I avoided the unpleasantness which otherwise would have occurred.

That's a shaman view on it anyway.

A rationalist view would day that my brain was already affected by cannabis smoking that day and that I had already in some fashion caught a glimpse of them in the distance prior to that moment without consciously realizing it.
And that was my first reaction too as I am first a skeptic.
So I have been over and over, especially in the weeks following it, every possible angle of how else I could have gained the information.
Not only have I failed to find another means, it does not explain either the very clear, certain and distinct sensation that accompanied the experience that the information somehow was contained in the flight of the flock.


Good conversation you two. Liked it- Chris

Glad ou are enjoying it Chris, this sort of stuff fascinates me and I have had same interesting experiences in my life that I struggle to find any sort of rational understanding off.

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Re: Religous debates and questions [2]

Post by azriel on Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:05 am

There's a lot there I agree with you on Petty Nod  "we" as humans have forgot so much, thats why we "crack up" at times as we do, We have lost faith in ourselves, in our INNER selves, stop anyone in the street & ask, "can you create fire with these simple objects ?" what do you think the answer would be ? Hell, lads/lasses have to go to the Scouts/Girl Guides etc to learn that ! I sometimes think by trying to be cleverer we are going further away from who we really are,mentally, Just like Merry said in the *huck spit* PJ film, "the closer we are to danger,the further away we are from harm". I believe the Earth itself gives off more energy than people admit. We can tune into its vibes, I can tune into some weird stuff, Ive done some weird stuff, but not with the help of drugs ! (I did a little "speed" as a teenager,) I dont drink but, as you pointed out, let your mind flow away, de-focus your eyes & you can bet a pound to a penny, if your open,unafraid & free, something will pop thru ! Nod  Then, do you act on it or brush it aside ? I try to read the signs, often they are a warning.

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