Religous debates and questions [2]

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Re: Religous debates and questions [2]

Post by David H on Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:57 pm

As a medical professional, you know exactly what the smoking is doing to you Petty. You know what you need to do if you care about the quality of your life/death. BTW I've earned the right to nag in the chemo ward.

(But yes, please send the Who sooner rather than later!Nod )
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Re: Religous debates and questions [2]

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:59 pm

As true in religion as in politics!- David

Indeed.
What interests me is i testing shaman ideas against science.
The physical description of the energy at large- which is as of strings which vibrate for example I knew about several years before I found out about String theory and couldn't help but be struck in the similarities in language between the science and shaman descriptions.
And for the same reason- Shamans are trying to explain in words an experience.
And the scientists were trying to explain in words something that only really makes sense in the language of mathematics.

As a result both descriptions of the universe, coming from opposite perspectives, sound remarkably similar to one another.


"As a medical professional, you know exactly what the smoking is doing to you Petty"- David

As a medical professional its why I do it, same reason you will find drug use and alcohol so much higher than average in that field too.

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Re: Religous debates and questions [2]

Post by Amarië on Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:01 pm

Considering the weirdness that is our body and conscience, I don't find in inconceivable that perhaps the biological clock can be sensed by others or something. Dogs can smell cancer, women's cycle tunes with other women...

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Re: Religous debates and questions [2]

Post by halfwise on Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:05 pm

Mrs Figg wrote:Petty you asked whether I felt cold and calm, as I had just been told I was about to die in a horrible way, I was let us say, brown trousering it, so no, I wasnt calm at all. I must say that the knowledge must have saved my physical life, as I am still here (just) but part of my soul died instead. so it did partly come true.
I assume we will never get the details of this hair-raising story, or it would have come out by now. That may be a loss for us, but did the experience color your life, is it integral to the Figgy we've come to know?

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Re: Religous debates and questions [2]

Post by David H on Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:05 pm

As a one-time mathematician I can tell you the language of mathematics isn't about making sense. It's about making rigor. The idea needs to come first. The formulas are just the hammer and tongs with which you forge the language to capture the idea.

As a medical professional its why I do it, same reason you will find drug use and alcohol so much higher than average in that field too.
Death wish then. Fair enough.
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Re: Religous debates and questions [2]

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:07 pm

Not exactly a death wish, just a certainty of not wanting to risk living to long in this society. We have greatly extended the length of human life without working out yet how to extend the quality.


mathematics isn't about making sense. It's about making rigor. The idea needs to come first.- David

Yes but when it comes to then trying to describe to the layman they rely on imagery, metaphor, simile ect just as the shamans do in theirs- and they do sound very similar.

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Re: Religous debates and questions [2]

Post by halfwise on Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:10 pm

David H wrote: As a one-time mathematician I can tell you the language of mathematics isn't about making sense. It's about making rigor. The idea needs to come first. The formulas are just the hammer and tongs with which you forge the language to capture the idea.
I don't know which famous mathematician it was, but he had heard that a student had left mathematics in order to pursue writing novels. His comment was "it's just as well, he didn't have the imagination to be a mathematician."

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Re: Religous debates and questions [2]

Post by halfwise on Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:15 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:
What interests me is i testing shaman ideas against science.
The physical description of the energy at large- which is as of strings which vibrate for example I knew about several years before I found out about String theory and couldn't help but be struck in the similarities in language between the science and shaman descriptions.
And for the same reason- Shamans are trying to explain in words an experience.
And the scientists were trying to explain in words something that only really makes sense in the language of mathematics.

As a result both descriptions of the universe, coming from opposite perspectives, sound remarkably similar to one another.
I'd be careful about taking similarities to the realm of equalities, though. The waves in string theory refer to things so infinitesimal it's not at all clear we'll be able to test the reality of it. The waves in shamanism seem much closer to our reality. Both are applying similar analogues seen in the world around them to describe very different observations. I wouldn't ascribe any deeper meaning to the similarities.

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Re: Religous debates and questions [2]

Post by Mrs Figg on Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:17 pm

shamanism sounds a bit like Tibetan Buddhism

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Re: Religous debates and questions [2]

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:19 pm

The vibrations in the energy at large in shamanism are because the energy itself has awareness.
It wasnt the exact details anyway which struck me, it was how similar the language used to describe both was that struck me.
That two separate groups, coming at essentially the same problem, what is the universe when you get right down to it, would from completely different perspectives, choose to describe it in such similar terms seemed worthy of note.

Mrs Figg- yes, Buddhism and a lot of the eastern schools of mysticism share much of the same ideas as shamanism.

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Re: Religous debates and questions [2]

Post by Mrs Figg on Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:23 pm

halfwise wrote:
Mrs Figg wrote:Petty you asked whether I felt cold and calm, as I had just been told I was about to die in a horrible way, I was let us say, brown trousering it, so no, I wasnt calm at all. I must say that the knowledge must have saved my physical life, as I am still here (just) but part of my soul died instead. so it did partly come true.
I assume we will never get the details of this hair-raising story, or it would have come out by now.  That may be a loss for us, but did the experience color your life, is it integral to the Figgy we've come to know?
I guess so


Last edited by Mrs Figg on Sun Aug 25, 2013 1:06 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Religous debates and questions [2]

Post by David H on Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:24 pm

Petty wrote:We have greatly extended the length of human life without working out yet how to extend the quality.
So you would think you'd be looking for things that enhance quality while possibly shortening life. The trouble with most smoking-related deaths is they suck the life out of you by slow degrees. Not being able to breathe without oxygen really sucks!
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Re: Religous debates and questions [2]

Post by Mrs Figg on Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:26 pm

snogging smokers is gross too No 

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Re: Religous debates and questions [2]

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:27 pm

If it comes to that I see no reason to wait on nature to take its course. Ive sat by a lot of deaths, seen it in the seemingly fit, and seen in people who had been barely breathing skeletons for months before had. I have no fear or anxiety about my own death at all.

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Re: Religous debates and questions [2]

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:28 pm

You cant taste the baccy for the buckie Figgs. Nod 

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Re: Religous debates and questions [2]

Post by Mrs Figg on Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:30 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:You cant taste the baccy for the buckie Figgs. Nod 
oh thats a relief Rolling Eyes 
but srsly give up the fags, its a fools game, why give the Government your money? Shrugging

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Re: Religous debates and questions [2]

Post by David H on Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:31 pm

You surprise me Petty! I'd have thought the the crabbit in you would hang on till the last breath, growling "I'll go when I'm damn well ready, and not a minute before!"
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Re: Religous debates and questions [2]

Post by Mrs Figg on Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:34 pm

maybe he intends to imbalm himself like Tutankhamun while he's still alive


Last edited by Mrs Figg on Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:35 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Religous debates and questions [2]

Post by David H on Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:34 pm

Mrs Figg wrote:snogging smokers is gross too No 
Yep. I'll second that.
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Re: Religous debates and questions [2]

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:35 pm

I'd have thought the the crabbit in you would hang on till the last breath, growling "I'll go when I'm damn well ready, and not a minute before!"- David

Nah my crabbit makes me say "I'll go when I damn well choose!"

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Re: Religous debates and questions [2]

Post by Mrs Figg on Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:38 pm

maybe if I nag you long enough you will give up just to shut me up. this nagging lark is tried and tested. Cool 

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Re: Religous debates and questions [2]

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:39 pm

Well that is one of the main functions of a wife Figg, even an eel wrangling internet one!

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Re: Religous debates and questions [2]

Post by David H on Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:41 pm

Mrs Figg wrote:maybe he intends to imbalm himself like Tutankhamun while he's still alive
An interesting thought. In the shamanistic practices of both Japan and the Northwest coast of America there's a tradition of holy men fasting on only pine nuts and resin. Over a course of a year or so, their body fluids slowly turn to tar, and they are preserved in a permanent "trance". Pretty cool, huh?

By the way, I think that your comment about Tibetan Buddhism is right on the mark It's really more shamanism with the trappings of Buddhism, in the same way as paganism lives in the Catholic church, particularly in remote areas where the old ways die hard.
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Re: Religous debates and questions [2]

Post by David H on Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:48 pm

halfwise wrote:
David H wrote: As a one-time mathematician I can tell you the language of mathematics isn't about making sense. It's about making rigor. The idea needs to come first. The formulas are just the hammer and tongs with which you forge the language to capture the idea.
I don't know which famous mathematician it was, but he had heard that a student had left mathematics in order to pursue writing novels.  His comment was "it's just as well, he didn't have the imagination to be a mathematician."
I missed this. A good story! I wonder who the mathematician was?
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Re: Religous debates and questions [2]

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:48 pm

Ive seen those mummies of the resined priests. Very dedicated!

There is shamanism under varies names all over the globe. Nod 
It was probably the closest we've really had to a truly global belief system at one point.

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