Was New Zeland wrong for Middle Earth?

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Re: Was New Zeland wrong for Middle Earth?

Post by Bluebottle on Sun Dec 15, 2013 7:06 pm

The south island certainly has some striking landscapes. And I think that New Zealand comes across as a varied country.

Still, it might be more interesting to discuss the parts people didn't like I guess.  Laughing 

Personally I always thought the threes in Hobbiton looked a bit too Southern Hemisphere-y.

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Re: Was New Zeland wrong for Middle Earth?

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sun Dec 15, 2013 7:21 pm

Theres a general tree problem throughout Blue- Lothlorien is a good example- all the trees in NZ are thin, they dont have big trunked trees it seem and so had to make a few to sick into scenes and the main city is cgi and matt paintings by the look of it.

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Re: Was New Zeland wrong for Middle Earth?

Post by Bluebottle on Sun Dec 15, 2013 7:31 pm

Yes, and it's a bit of a shame as the beechwoods of southern England was a big inspiration behind a lot of the nature images in Tolkiens work.

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Re: Was New Zeland wrong for Middle Earth?

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sun Dec 15, 2013 7:38 pm

And when the Ent turn up at the Moot in the film Treebeard says beech, elm, ash ect as they arrive- but all the wide shots of Fangorn we see its jut a a huge pine forest.  Mad 

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Re: Was New Zeland wrong for Middle Earth?

Post by Bluebottle on Sun Dec 15, 2013 7:49 pm

Yeah, it did look a bit like those forests in the Highlands really.

All pines in fine lines.  Laughing 

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Re: Was New Zeland wrong for Middle Earth?

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sun Dec 15, 2013 7:52 pm

Yeah my brain was screaming 'Forestry Commission' at those shots, I was even looking for the fire breaks.  Very Happy 

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Re: Was New Zeland wrong for Middle Earth?

Post by Bluebottle on Sun Dec 15, 2013 7:57 pm

Maybe the ents were working by Forestry Commission standards? Shrugging Laughing 

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Re: Was New Zeland wrong for Middle Earth?

Post by Bluebottle on Mon Dec 23, 2013 12:39 pm

A picture of some Highland forests for those who aren't as aware of the Scottish countryside as me and Petty.


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Re: Was New Zeland wrong for Middle Earth?

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Mon Dec 23, 2013 4:24 pm

Yup Fangorn- my arse it is, but Pj seemed to think such a style of forest was good enough.  Mad 

And nobody seems to to notice either that when Merry and Pippin go into Fangorn it mysteriously goes from a pine forest exterior to a non pine forest interior  Mad 

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Re: Was New Zeland wrong for Middle Earth?

Post by Mrs Figg on Mon Dec 23, 2013 4:57 pm

nope it doesnt, its the same. Thats not a pine forest.



Last edited by Mrs Figg on Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:16 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Was New Zeland wrong for Middle Earth?

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:14 pm

Actual location Pj shot at-



Exterior flyover as it looks in the film-



What it looks like inside-



Its a completely different type of forest, the trees are a different type, much shorter but way more stocky with larger, thicker trunks, and much more twisted boughs and the trees are much further spaced apart.

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Re: Was New Zeland wrong for Middle Earth?

Post by Mrs Figg on Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:16 pm

nope its exactly the same.

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Re: Was New Zeland wrong for Middle Earth?

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:17 pm

Um..... Shocked ...one of us should have gone to specsavers!  Mad 

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Re: Was New Zeland wrong for Middle Earth?

Post by Mrs Figg on Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:21 pm

yes you really should.  Suspect If you cant tell the difference between pine and deciduous forest.

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Re: Was New Zeland wrong for Middle Earth?

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:25 pm

What matters are how they are planted- that was the comparison being drawn with Forestry commission planting- all the trees are planted close together as they are in all the exterior shots of Fangorn.
The interior they are far enough apart ents can walk untroubled underneath never having to come within ten metres of a tree.
Its a completely different type of forest with a different type of tree make up.
And in the exteriors the trees are tall, as trees planted together have to grow tall and thinner to get light, but the interiors the trees are much fatter and not as tall.

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Re: Was New Zeland wrong for Middle Earth?

Post by Mrs Figg on Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:26 pm

deciduous

deciduous

deciduous

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Re: Was New Zeland wrong for Middle Earth?

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:30 pm

All effects shots- no real forest- the real forest they used is the one I pictured above.
Your pics illustrate the point- in the effects shot its a different type of forest than in the real shots of the actual forest where they shot the fly overs and the scenes where Aragorn and co. ride up to the fire.
The two dont match (for the very good reason NZ lacks those sort of trees)

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Re: Was New Zeland wrong for Middle Earth?

Post by Mrs Figg on Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:32 pm

it doesnt matter. Its the same type of forest for all shots. No pine was used.

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Re: Was New Zeland wrong for Middle Earth?

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:36 pm

The point is't the pine- the point is the forestry commission type forest they actually filmed, and the version of it that appears in the effects shots- which simply dont match. Things like the spacing issue, its obvious the trees are dense and close together in the exterior shots- all the way back and half way up the distant mountains they are that way, just like forestry plantations are- but the set of Fangorn and the effects shots of the interior has huge wide girthed trees and loads of space between trees.

As there is a load of forestry type plantations all around me here I am used to having been in them, and they are nothing at all like the interior of Fangorn in the film.

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Re: Was New Zeland wrong for Middle Earth?

Post by Mrs Figg on Mon Dec 23, 2013 10:11 pm

I have no doubt in your imagination they are all serried ranks of forestry pine, but in reality the forest they used is all deciduous trees of various girth and height. You may want it to be like a man -made pine forest, but unfortunately the visual facts dont back this up. I have yet to see concrete proof of ONE shot of man made forest that backs up your theory. But it Just isnt there, sorry.

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Re: Was New Zeland wrong for Middle Earth?

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Tue Dec 24, 2013 5:10 am

Take a look again at the picture I put up of the location itself-




its absolutely clear in that those are trees that are growing incredibly close together (the ones on the left also very pine like to me!), they also have branches going from the top of the tree to almost the bottom of its trunk.

Compare that to the shots of the interior with Merry and Pippin- where there the trees are a different type and shape and where the branches dont begin till near the top of the trunk not at the bottom, and where they are widely spaced apart not growing densely together and have a huge spreading canopy-



I dont know how anyone can look at those two images and claim they represent the exterior and interior of the same forest. They are nothing alike.

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Re: Was New Zeland wrong for Middle Earth?

Post by Mrs Figg on Tue Dec 24, 2013 1:00 pm

*sigh* In the film there is no difference between inside and outside . They may have used longshots of a forest but ALL forests look densly packed from a distance but when you are INSIDE the forest it opens up. Its the distance involved, its quite normal.
You have still not given me any evidence from the film that it looks like forestry pine.

This is the location for Fangorn and it looks like a natural Beech forest to me.



This aint a Forestry pine forest either, the tops of the trees are different heights and look more like Beech or some indigenous tree.


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Re: Was New Zeland wrong for Middle Earth?

Post by Bluebottle on Thu Dec 26, 2013 11:09 pm

Haha, I love that my picture sparked this kind of debate.

Here's me thinking you both might have some points, you're just not ready to admit it.

(See how good I am at not picking sides. Laughing )

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