Unpublished Writing by J.R.R Tolkien?

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Unpublished Writing by J.R.R Tolkien?

Post by malickfan on Sun Jan 05, 2014 1:05 am

Being rather bored I typed in the above in google and came up with the following:

http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Index:Unpublished_material 

http://www.minastirith.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=13;t=000948
(scroll down, it's the second from the bottom post)

I haven't heard of alot of this (poems and lectures mainly I guess) can anyone verify the above info? And does anyone feel surprised/excited/annoyed there is still apparently alot of unpublished material locked away gathering dust?



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Re: Unpublished Writing by J.R.R Tolkien?

Post by Eldorion on Sun Jan 05, 2014 1:12 am

There's at least a few pages in the Tolkien Gateway index that, if you look at the individual pages, have actually been published (apparently). But anyway, given how prolifically Tolkien wrote and the length of his career, I wouldn't expect literally all of his works to have been published. But I don't know how important that necessarily is since I can't imagine there are many bombshells that went undiscovered by Christopher and other scholars.
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Re: Unpublished Writing by J.R.R Tolkien?

Post by Bluebottle on Sun Jan 05, 2014 1:20 am

Also didn't Christopher say about Unfinished Tales that the problem with a lot of what left of his fathers notes is that it all was written in haste to be written down more clearly later. And much of it is simply intelligible.

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Re: Unpublished Writing by J.R.R Tolkien?

Post by malickfan on Sun Jan 05, 2014 1:27 am

Unfinished Tales and the HOME were never supposed to be totally complete collections-there is a partially complete unpublished prose version of The Lay of Leithain yet to be published, and in the LOTR: A Readers Companion (great book btw) a few extracts from unpublished letters and an alternate version of 'The Hunt For The Ring' are cited.

I know they were going to publish his translations of Beowulf about a decade back put abandoned it after all outbreak of media frenzy surrounding the films:

http://www.tolkienbooks.net/php/manuscript-found.php

(If my memory is correct) Wayne G Hammond and Christina Scull (author/editors of many Tolkien related books) have also indicated they mentioned an expanded edition of The Letters to the publishers only to be turned down-a new edition of Letters would be very interesting at least.

But yeah, I guess most of the stuff hasn't been published for a reason, essays about Gothic languages and poems about Dragons wouldn't really be big sellers I suppose.

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Re: Unpublished Writing by J.R.R Tolkien?

Post by halfwise on Sun Jan 05, 2014 2:13 am

OMG, one of my biggest dreams was that Tolkien had done a translation of Beowulf...and now I find he actually has?!! Worse, he has and publication has been squashed due to publicity?

NOOOooooooo!!!!

This is like a nightmare. Why couldn't the Tolkien foundation just let it roll along? Damn them.

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Re: Unpublished Writing by J.R.R Tolkien?

Post by David H on Sun Jan 05, 2014 3:00 am

I think you need to take a field trip to Oxford, Halfy.  
I googled it and the manuscript is available for viewing at the  Bodleian Library. :carrot: :prof:
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Re: Unpublished Writing by J.R.R Tolkien?

Post by halfwise on Sun Jan 05, 2014 3:20 am

Dammit, how much time will I have to spend reading it through glass, in no doubt crappy hand writing? I want the dratted thing published, preferably last decade!

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Re: Unpublished Writing by J.R.R Tolkien?

Post by David H on Sun Jan 05, 2014 3:36 am

halfwise wrote:Dammit, how much time will I have to spend reading it through glass, in no doubt crappy hand writing?  

Nope. If you present yourself as a visiting Beowulf scholar and file the proper paperwork, you'll have all the time you need. You'll be able to turn the pages leisurely yourself, (possibly with archival white gloves) seated in a beautiful walnut-paneled reading room, with a cute archivist standing by at your beck and call to serve your every need.  Nod  

{{If nothing else, it's a wonderful fantasy, isn't it?
Hey! I think I know somebody with an archivist's costume. Very Happy 
If you'll excuse me.....  :carrot: :carrot: :carrot: }}
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Re: Unpublished Writing by J.R.R Tolkien?

Post by RA on Sun Jan 05, 2014 8:30 am

That would be so neat if the Estate somehow published the remaining works. I'd love to read some of them.

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Re: Unpublished Writing by J.R.R Tolkien?

Post by halfwise on Sun Jan 05, 2014 2:34 pm

That kind of has been what Christopher Tolkien has been working his way through. But backing out on letting somebody publish what was essentially a completed Beowulf translation with notes is just stupid. There was nothing open to interpretation to screw up, which is why Christopher Tolkien won't let anyone much around with the more unfinished works.

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Re: Unpublished Writing by J.R.R Tolkien?

Post by Elthir on Sun Jan 05, 2014 4:13 pm

I spoke to Prof Drout at a performance of Beowulf by Benjamin Bagby, and he didn't mention whether or not the Beowulf project was ever going to get on track again. Of course, now that I think of it, that was probably because the only thing I said to him was that I think Tolkien would have enjoyed Bagby's show.

 :prof: [< visual approximation] Drout...

... agreed with me. Perhaps he was just being nice. Then one of his Anglo-Saxon students interrupted and we never spoke again. If speaking we could call it, as he might have only nodded. Can't remember now. I'm not wholly sure he heard me actually.

Anyway I'm very interested in Tolkien's Sellic Spell hopefully being published one day.


By the way Mr Bagby performs all over the world.

If you go to see his Beowulf tell him Elthir sent you, and you might not have to sit near that person who coughs throughout the performance.

I had that problem once but fortunately the person was coughing in Old English so as not to wreck the mood.
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Re: Unpublished Writing by J.R.R Tolkien?

Post by halfwise on Sun Jan 05, 2014 4:23 pm

 Very Happy 

Interesting, I only knew Benjamin Bagby through his medieval music performances (have also seen him in concert), didn't realize but it makes sense he would do Beowulf.  Just dug up a web video of him doing Beowulf, watching it now....

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Re: Unpublished Writing by J.R.R Tolkien?

Post by Elthir on Sun Jan 05, 2014 4:29 pm

I've seen his Beowulf three times, but yes there's a nice DVD version and some free clips...

... without coughing  Very Happy 

I've been at some of his other performances too: 'Fragments...' I really enjoyed for example, plus the Norse stuff.
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Re: Unpublished Writing by J.R.R Tolkien?

Post by Orwell on Sun Jan 05, 2014 9:20 pm

Not publishing his tanslation of Beowulf because of publicity over the movies seems strange. You'd think while everyone is thinking about Tolkien would seem a good time to publish it. Only a few schools would be interested anyway. How many even here would buy it? Not many (any) probably.


HalfY:   You'll be able to turn the pages leisurely yourself, (possibly with archival white gloves) seated in a beautiful walnut-paneled reading room, with a cute archivist standing by at your beck and call to serve your every need.

I was just such a cute archivist between about 1982 and 1984. Brings back memories.

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Re: Unpublished Writing by J.R.R Tolkien?

Post by Bluebottle on Sun Jan 05, 2014 10:04 pm

I heard Tolkien practicly built his career on his lecture about exactly Beowulf, which is still highly respected to this day.

Bluebottle wrote:Also didn't Christopher say about Unfinished Tales that the problem with a lot of what left of his fathers notes is that it all was written in haste to be written down more clearly later. And much of it is simply intelligible.

That might have been most relevant to the Middle Earth related writing come to think of it.

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Re: Unpublished Writing by J.R.R Tolkien?

Post by Orwell on Mon Jan 06, 2014 7:54 am

Just so.

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Re: Unpublished Writing by J.R.R Tolkien?

Post by Eldorion on Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:59 pm

Orwell wrote:I was just such a cute archivist between about 1982 and 1984. Brings back memories.

When you were 64? Suspect
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Re: Unpublished Writing by J.R.R Tolkien?

Post by azriel on Mon Jan 06, 2014 6:07 pm

When he get olders, losing his hair,
(not) Many years from now,
Will we still be sending him a valentine?
Birthday greetings, bottle of wine?
If he'd been out till quarter to three
Would we lock the door?
Will we still need him?, will we still feed him?
When he's sixty-four?

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Re: Unpublished Writing by J.R.R Tolkien?

Post by David H on Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:05 pm

Orwell wrote:
I was just such a cute archivist between about 1982 and 1984. Brings back memories.

pics or it didn't happen  Rolling Eyes 
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Re: Unpublished Writing by J.R.R Tolkien?

Post by Bluebottle on Mon Jan 06, 2014 11:05 pm

Well, you're certainly brave giving Orwell such an invitations David.  Shocked  

Still might be interesting. Laughing

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Re: Unpublished Writing by J.R.R Tolkien?

Post by malickfan on Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:08 am

I won't post a link (not sure if it infringes copyright or not) but I came across a pretty short PDF file someone has composed, of unpublished/partially published letters by JRR Tolkien, or at least ones cited in auction catalogs or secondary sources other than Carpenter's 1981 volume.

Though technically largely published it was reasonably interesting reading the letters (none of which I had seen before)-mainly replies to fans, and a few musings on certain words in his invented languages, etc certainly proof than an expanded official collection of his letters would be interesting to read.

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The Tauriel: Desolation of Canon December 2013 (Accurate again!)
The Sod-it! : Battling my Indifference December 2014 (You know what they say, third time's the charm)

Well, that was worth the wait wasn't it  Suspect


I think what comes out of a pig's rear end is more akin to what Peejers has given us-Azriel 20/9/2014
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Re: Unpublished Writing by J.R.R Tolkien?

Post by Bluebottle on Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:59 pm

A link in itself wouldn't breach any copyright, Malick. (Yet, anyway. The draconian direction copyright law is heading in, who knows.)

So you shouldn't feel any compunction about posting it.

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Re: Unpublished Writing by J.R.R Tolkien?

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:49 pm

Yeah give us the link Malick! Any letters of Tolkiens I have so far missed would be well worth a read.  Nod 

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Re: Unpublished Writing by J.R.R Tolkien?

Post by malickfan on Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:44 pm

Ok here's the link (there isn't really that much to be honest)

http://tolkienguide.narod.ru/promet/A_U_Letters.pdf


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Well, that was worth the wait wasn't it  Suspect


I think what comes out of a pig's rear end is more akin to what Peejers has given us-Azriel 20/9/2014
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Re: Unpublished Writing by J.R.R Tolkien?

Post by malickfan on Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:59 pm

I also found a link to The Lay of Aotrou and Itroun one of Tolkien's finest poems, first published in 1945, only reprinted once in Hungarian 2002, it's a brilliant piece of work and deserves to be reprinted in a proper run.

http://www.ae-lib.org.ua/texts-c/tolkien__the_lay_of_aotrou_and_itroun__en.htm

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The Sod-it! : Battling my Indifference December 2014 (You know what they say, third time's the charm)

Well, that was worth the wait wasn't it  Suspect


I think what comes out of a pig's rear end is more akin to what Peejers has given us-Azriel 20/9/2014
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