The General Tolkien News Thread

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Re: The General Tolkien News Thread

Post by malickfan on Mon Feb 24, 2014 8:39 pm

I might buy them just coz they are so cheap, the language side of things dosen't interest me very much, but at those prices (that is of course factoring in the exchange rate and shipping to the UK...I've ordered books from abroad before and had a mixed sucess with them) you wouldn't be a true Tolkien geek to pass on them.

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Re: The General Tolkien News Thread

Post by Mrs Figg on Mon Feb 24, 2014 8:50 pm

Eldorion wrote:
Bluebottle wrote:Interestingly in the final batlle when Sauron looses both the traditional and the modernistic side kind of loose, as the elves also disapear from Middle Earth. And that leaves us in what? A postmodernistic dystopia. Perhaps not, maybe that's a step too far.  Laughing 

That's a thought-provoking way of looking at the ending. :)Unfortunately, though, my impression from Tolkien's writings (especially unpublished material) is that the situation under King Elessar was only a temporary one.  In the Letters Tolkien stated that Aragorn's descendants would ultimately be ... not necessarily corrupted, but just as subject to human weakness as the Stewards had been.

A story placed about 100 years after the Downfall [of Sauron]... proved both sinister and depressing. Since we are dealing with Men it is inevitable that we should be concerned with the most regrettable feature of their nature: their quick satiety with good. So that the people of Gondor... would become discontented and restless- while the dynasts descended from Aragorn would become just kings and governors –like Denethor or worse (Letters 344).

That story, The New Shadow, never got beyond the first chapter (of which there are two versions published in HoME XII), but this cynicism bordering on misanthropy is very present in it.  On the other hand, the epilogue to LOTR (published in HoME IX) is much more optimistic about the Fourth Age, almost uncharacteristically so, given the common refrain of the "dominion of men".

“I know,” said Sam. “The light is fading, Elanor. But it won't go out yet. It won't ever go quite out, I think now, since I have had you to talk to. For it seems to me now that people can remember it who have never seen it. And yet,” he sighed, “even that is not the same as really seeing it, like I did.”

“Like really being in a story?” said Elanor. “A story is quite different, even when it is about what happened. I wish I could go back to old days!”

“Folk of our sort often wish that,” said Sam. “You came at the end of a great age, Elanor; but though it's over, as we say, things don't really end sharp like that. It's more like a winter sunset. The High Elves have nearly all gone now with Elrond. But not quite all; and those that didn't go will wait now for a while. And the others, the ones that belong here, will last even longer. There are still things for you to see, and maybe you'll see them sooner than you hope.”

But Middle-earth is ostensibly the mythic past of our own world, which means that sooner or later the last of the magic must have died out and "modernity" triumphed.  But I do like to cling to the unpublished epilogue as a sliver of hope for the post-LOTR world of Middle-earth. :)NB a more extensive quotation can be read >here< for those who don't own HoME IX.

this is why I dont like the death of Smaug. for good or ill he represented the passing of a magical race, the Dragons. for that reason I never feel happy when I read that bit of TH.
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Re: The General Tolkien News Thread

Post by azriel on Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:08 pm

I dont like the End of ANYTHING Im happy with  Sad

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Re: The General Tolkien News Thread

Post by malickfan on Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:28 pm

Yeah I don't like endings, Smaug's death besides being randomly odd was quite a shock and annoyance to me when I first read the book, I almost felt sorry for the guy.


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Re: The General Tolkien News Thread

Post by Bluebottle on Tue Feb 25, 2014 9:09 pm

I always found the end of the Lord of the Rings sad in that way as well. With the elves and the magic leaving Middle Earth.

It kind of plays in to the point that we were discussing above. When great evil is beaten, the great good that evil necessitated disappears too.

And Smaug is another example of that as well.

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Re: The General Tolkien News Thread

Post by malickfan on Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:24 pm

The extended edition of Tolkien's 'On Fairy Stories' essay is apparently getting a re-release later this year (It's listed on Amazon.com as well):

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tolkien-Fairy-Stories-Verlyn-Flieger/dp/0007582919/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1393877791&sr=1-2

(I'll be getting this one)

And a re-release of the One Volume Alan Lee The Lord of The Rings edition is on the way to celebrate the 60th anniversary:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Lord-Rings-J-Tolkien/dp/0007525540

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Re: The General Tolkien News Thread

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:36 pm

Ill definitely need to pick up On Faery Stories if it has a decent amount of new stuff in it.

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Re: The General Tolkien News Thread

Post by malickfan on Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:48 pm

There seems to be quite a bit of new stuff in it;

http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Tolkien_On_Fairy-stories

Verlyn Flieger also edited an extended version of Smith of Wooton Major a few years ago, hopefully this might get a re print as well.

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Re: The General Tolkien News Thread

Post by malickfan on Wed Mar 19, 2014 6:53 pm

Holey shizzlebeans Tolkien's translation (just the poetic version I think) of Beowulf, related essays and 'Selic Spell' is set to be published on 22 May!!!!!!

http://www.tolkienbeowulf.com/

 Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked :carrot: :carrot: :carrot: :carrot: :carrot: :carrot: 

I wonder what spurned Christopher to release it? Bar a few poems and short stories (Tales and Songs of Brimble Bay, The End of Bovandium and The Tale of the Green Dozen most notably) this seems to be Tolkien's last major unpublished work.

Hmm...I wonder where this leaves Michael C Drout? He was working on editing the translation back in 2002-4 as I posted in a different thread.

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Re: The General Tolkien News Thread

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Mar 19, 2014 6:55 pm

That should be very good indeed.  bounce 

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Re: The General Tolkien News Thread

Post by malickfan on Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:16 pm

Not up on Amazon yet  bounce bounce bounce

And whilst we are here...sincere thanks to Christopher Tolkien for you dedication, hard work, insight and care you have taken guarding your father's literary and cultural legacy.

Not that my poor grammar and punctuation would sit well with a pair of English Professor's...

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Re: The General Tolkien News Thread

Post by Elthir on Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:05 pm

And together with Sellic Spell! Huzzah!

At last!
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Re: The General Tolkien News Thread

Post by Eldorion on Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:33 am

The Guardian has a piece about the upcoming book, with comments from Tolkien scholar John Garth (author of Tolkien and the Great War).

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/mar/19/jrr-tolkien-beowulf-translation-published
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Re: The General Tolkien News Thread

Post by malickfan on Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:17 pm


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Re: The General Tolkien News Thread

Post by jon on Sat Mar 22, 2014 5:26 pm

There was also a brief article up on Huf Po:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/20/jrr-tolkien-beowulf-translation_n_5002279.html?ir=Books

I think the publisher is attempting to time new releases for maximum profit in relation to the new films... at least that's my guess.  We saw The Fall of Arthur published last year as well and Christopher really hadn't come out with anything big since Sigurd & Gurdun in 2009 (I think).  It's a good 14 years now since the Heaney translation, so, all things considered, I really do think now is the time.  My guess (as noted on the Unpublished Writings thread: http://www.hobbitmovieforum.com/t878p15-unpublished-writing-by-jrr-tolkien) is that the book will sell very well.

Re: the Flieger ed. of Wooten Major it was printed but, to the best of my knowledge, not here in America.  I ran across a copy of it in Oxford when I was traveling through there back in 2007 and was able to order it on line back then.  Don't know if it's available these days tho.  Those kinds of things I imagine aren't necessarily big sellers and go to niche markets and fanatics (like myself).


Last edited by jon on Sat Mar 22, 2014 5:28 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : slight changes)

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Re: The General Tolkien News Thread

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sat Mar 22, 2014 5:39 pm

Good to see you Jon.
I will definitely be picking this up- Beowulf is a favourite of mine anyway, add in Tolkien and its a no-brainer.

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Re: The General Tolkien News Thread

Post by jon on Sat Mar 22, 2014 6:44 pm

I know. Same for me. I don't get around here enough but I do read frequently (tho post rarely of late). I'm watching and re-watching your post of the Tolkien Documentary on p. 1 of this thread. Great stuff. Fall, Mortality & the Machine, as I'd always said, are Tolkien's primary interests in thematic material. And he handles them so very well. He really is one of the best authors of his age.

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Re: The General Tolkien News Thread

Post by jon on Sat Mar 22, 2014 6:45 pm

One of these days I'll have to start another Fall, Mortality & the Machine thread here.

One day...

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Re: The General Tolkien News Thread

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sat Mar 22, 2014 6:46 pm

Fall, Mortality & the Machine, as I'd always said, are Tolkien's primary interests in thematic material.- Jon

Yes indeed, shame PJ and the Coven didnt realise any of that when they decided they were qualified to do a screenplay treatment of his writing.  Mad

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Re: The General Tolkien News Thread

Post by halfwise on Sun Mar 23, 2014 8:12 pm

the publication of Beowulf edited by Christopher Tolkien is great news.  The Michael Drout edition was squelched by the Tolkien estate without any satisfying explanation.  Now we know why.

How did Drout get a copy of the manuscript anyway?  scratch   Was Christopher working on it all along or just after this other guy discovered it?  I'd like to get to the bottom of the story.

Much as I felt for Drout getting squashed and was rather irate at the Tolkien estate at the time, having a version annotated by Christopher is the best possible scenario.  I may be too anxious to wait for the paperback version and buy it in hardback as soon as it appears!

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Re: The General Tolkien News Thread

Post by halfwise on Sun Mar 23, 2014 8:33 pm

I found an article by Michael Drout that I hadn't found the last time this topic came up.

http://www.tolkienbooks.net/php/manuscript-found.php

It's the second article.  He seems like a nice guy taken by surprise by the distortion field of publicity, has a nice sense of humor about it (and wasn't surprised the Tolkien estate pulled the plug), and I get the feeling he's probably happy to have Christopher Tolkien being the one to publish it rather than him.   EDIT: I had been fooled by the first article into thinking the Beowuld manuscript had been discovered, when it fact it hadn't been.  Was busy editing my post when my error was pointed out, but don't have the original, which may only exist now in the memories who ever read this before I edited.


Last edited by halfwise on Sun Mar 23, 2014 8:46 pm; edited 3 times in total

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Re: The General Tolkien News Thread

Post by David H on Sun Mar 23, 2014 8:42 pm

halfwise wrote:

How did Drout get a copy of the manuscript anyway?  scratch   Was Christopher working on it all along or just after this other guy discovered it?  I'd like to get to the bottom of the story.


The manuscript is in the British Library for anybody to look at, but permission is needed to reproduce it in any form. Drout would have had complete access to the manuscript while he was researching his other works, and apparently he had reason to believe he would get permission to publish an edition of it.

But if Christopher decided he wanted the project, who can argue with that?

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Re: The General Tolkien News Thread

Post by malickfan on Sun Mar 23, 2014 9:03 pm

I seem to recall reading a notable Tolkien Scholar (Flieger?) was originally assigned as editor of 'The Fall of Arthur' in the mid 90's, but for some reason Christopher Tolkien decided to pull the plug on her Edition of the work, taking over as editor (not that I have any source for this perhaps I've been drinking too much buckie lately  drunken ). I get the feeling that Christopher wants to take a greater part in editing his father's 'other' writings, as a academic and his literary executor perhaps he feels he is best placed to show another side to the professors's writing that an outsider only rbought in by discovering Middle Eart might not-i.e the linguistic materiel, History of The Hobbit etc are perhaps more 'marketable' so he give's the jobs to others,  the obscure material he leaves for himself.

Just a thought.

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Re: The General Tolkien News Thread

Post by malickfan on Wed Apr 02, 2014 8:59 pm

I was on the money apparently The Tolkien Library wesbite has confirmed a 60th Anniversary Edition of LOTR for June.

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Re: The General Tolkien News Thread

Post by Eldorion on Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:19 pm

The 50th Anniversary Text and the Lee illustration?  Shocked If it also includes the facsimile pages of the Book of Mazarbul then it will be the greatest version of LOTR ever printed (and probably that ever will be).  I'm gonna be reeeeeeeeeally tempted by this.  Mad 

{{{Also, TL's April Fool's article had me taken in for a moment until I looked at the date it was posted. Laughing}}}
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