The General Tolkien News Thread

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Re: The General Tolkien News Thread

Post by malickfan on Wed Oct 19, 2016 1:02 pm

They are publishing a stand alone Beren and Luthien book, illustrated by Alan Lee!!!

cheers  bounce  bounce  bounce  bounce

http://www.tolkiensociety.org/2016/10/new-tolkien-book-beren-and-luthien/

A compilation of all versions of Tolkien’s tale of Beren and Lúthien

Hmm maybe it's me being a thicky... but it's not 100% clear if this is novelization edited together from different versions? (unlikely i.m.o considering C.Tolkien's previous comments on the editorial inventions he did in The Silmarillion, and his intial reluctance to do the same with COH) or merely a compilation of the alternate drafts? (I wonder if it will include the previous unpublished prose version of The Lay Of Leithian?) maybe even a bit of both? Because I'm not so sure a stand alone scholarly book with extensive commentary will have the same impact as The Children Of Hurin did...maybe a hybrid of the two versions would be the best approach...

scratch


Amazon UK describes the volume as:

Painstakingly restored from Tolkien’s manuscripts and presented for the first time as a continuous and standalone story, the epic tale of Beren and Lúthien will reunite fans of The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings with Elves and Men, Dwarves and Orcs and the rich landscape and creatures unique to Tolkien’s Middle-earth.

It's listed as 304 pages, which probably wouldn't be long enough for all the various versions...

But this implies differently:

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/oct/19/jrr-tolkiens-middle-earth-love-story-published-beren-and-luthien

Hmm...this nearly as confusing as the geography in The Hobbit films...





I've already seen some wishing for a Fall Of Gondolin volume, but that is perhaps too incomplete...

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Re: The General Tolkien News Thread

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Oct 19, 2016 3:39 pm

{{{{MMmmmm- Ive read the full Lay as it was published already- the non prose version I mean- I seem to remember it being pretty damn long, but don't think it was over 300 pages of long- though been years since I read it so could be misremembering the length}}}

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Re: The General Tolkien News Thread

Post by halfwise on Wed Oct 19, 2016 3:56 pm

It's astonishing to me that all the various versions would be over 300 pages. But if they are, the Guardian article seems to imply that the most complete version is presented first, then snapshots from other versions follow to show the story's evolution. It seems a sound and satisfying approach, given the trust the readership has in Christopher's editorial judgement.

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Re: The General Tolkien News Thread

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Oct 19, 2016 4:03 pm

{{also good to see given Christopher Tolkiens views on PJ's 'adaptations' of his fathers work that he clearly doesn't hold Alan Lee to blame for taking the cash and coming up with tons of stuff nothing to do with his fathers work but pretending it was! Especially for TH- presumably Lee would have started the conversation with an apology for his part in that Nod }}}

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Re: The General Tolkien News Thread

Post by Eldorion on Thu Oct 20, 2016 2:35 am

My money is on the Amazon UK description being inaccurate. Christopher has always been very clear about Beren and Lúthien and The Fall of Gondolin being in too disorganized a state to get the same full treatment as The Children of Húrin. There will probably be some new commentary in this and perhaps even additional (minor) variations on the tale included, though.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:{{also good to see given Christopher Tolkiens views on PJ's 'adaptations' of his fathers work that he clearly doesn't hold Alan Lee to blame for taking the cash and coming up with tons of stuff nothing to do with his fathers work but pretending it was! Especially for TH- presumably Lee would have started the conversation with an apology for his part in that  Nod }}}

Expecting an apology for that would be rather ... petty Pokey Tongue #sorrynotsorry
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Re: The General Tolkien News Thread

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Thu Oct 20, 2016 2:38 am

{{I didnt say Christopher would be expecting one- I said Lee should feel honour bound to offer one! I would. }}}

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Re: The General Tolkien News Thread

Post by malickfan on Thu Oct 20, 2016 11:11 am

Pettytyrant101 wrote:{{also good to see given Christopher Tolkiens views on PJ's 'adaptations' of his fathers work that he clearly doesn't hold Alan Lee to blame for taking the cash and coming up with tons of stuff nothing to do with his fathers work but pretending it was! Especially for TH- presumably Lee would have started the conversation with an apology for his part in that  Nod }}}

Can you blame Lee for taking such a high profile (and presumably well paid) job? If anything that's one of the things Jackson definitely got right, he didn't have the endorsement of the Tolkien family, but by hiring artists they had approved to illustrate the books they did the next best thing arguably.

If it wasn't for Jackson's films, none of us would be posting here, I likely wouldn't have discovered the books, and the Beren and Luthien book probably wouldn't have been published, so look on the bright side...at least The Hobbit films have given us alot of fun things to moan about...

Since 2001, we've seen the following major Tolkien books get published/released:

2002: The Annotated Hobbit (2nd Edition)
2002: Beowulf And The Critics (basically an extended version of the 'Monsters And Critics' essay, 2nd edition published 2011)
2003: Tolkien And The Great War
2005: The Lord Of The Rings: A Readers Companion (with new editions in 2008, 2014)
2005: Smith Of Wooton Major (the expanded special edition)
2006: The J.R.R Tolkien Companion And Guide (with a second edition due out next year)
2007: The Children Of Hurin
2007: The History Of The Hobbit: Mr Baggins, Return to Bag End (later collected published one volume edition's in 2011, 2015)
2008: Tolkien On fairy Stories (an expanded critical edition of the original essay)
2009: The Legend of Sigurd and Gudrún
2011: The Art Of The Hobbit
2013: The Fall Of Arthur
2014: The Adventures Of Tom Bombadil (special extended edition)
2014: Beowulf: A Commentary And Translation+Selic Spell
2015: The Art Of The Lord Of The Rings
2015: The Story Of Kullervo
2016: A Secret Vice (extended edition)
2016: The Lay Of Aotrou and Itroun (well, for the first time since 1945 anyway)
2017: Beren and Lúthien

Plus all the various things published in academic journals, magazines etc, and the many dozens of books about Tolkien and his writing.

(Also worth noting Christopher Tolkien turns 93 this year, it's remarkable he still finds the energy and time to do so much excellent editorial work)


Last edited by malickfan on Thu Oct 20, 2016 11:44 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: The General Tolkien News Thread

Post by malickfan on Thu Oct 20, 2016 11:15 am

John Garth has written a interesting blog entry summarizing the various Beren And Luthien drafts, giving an idea of just what we can expect from the new book:

https://johngarth.wordpress.com/2016/10/19/beren-and-luthien-a-centenary-publication/

A blog entry collecting the various links and articles about the New book:

http://parmarkenta.blogspot.co.uk/2016/10/on-beren-and-luthien.html

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Re: The General Tolkien News Thread

Post by malickfan on Thu Oct 20, 2016 11:40 am

I had assumed Beowulf would be the last major Tolkien book published, but have been proven wrong several times, lots of people have been wondering whether The Fall Of Gondolin would get published as a stand alone book, but unfortunately there simply isn't enough completed, compatible material to edit together a stand alone narrative book (at least not one mostly in Tolkien senior's own words), however it does seem there is still a large amount of unpublished material, as I mentioned in this thread a couple of years ago:

http://www.hobbitmovieforum.com/t878-unpublished-writing-by-j-r-r-tolkien

I would certainly like to see more of the many unpublished poems and letters get published (maybe a new edition of Songs For The Philologists?) and the Dragon lecture, and essay about The Translation Of Poetry seem interesting from the brief extracts published in the Companion And Guide (indeed it appears there is a huge amount of unpublished scholarly material by Tolkien, though 60 year old university notes and lectures probably wouldn't attract a large number of readers)

Who knows what the future holds...

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Re: The General Tolkien News Thread

Post by Elthir on Thu Oct 20, 2016 4:03 pm

Eldorion wrote:My money is on the Amazon UK description being inaccurate. Christopher has always been very clear about Beren and Lúthien and The Fall of Gondolin being in too disorganized a state to get the same full treatment as The Children of Húrin.

I agree Eldo... an approach akin to The Children of Húrin would, to my mind, be a turn around from what Christopher Tolkien has already related or implied, and he has already revealed that the later long prose version, though a "substantial text", goes no further than "the betrayal by Dairon to Thingol of Beren's presence in Doriath" CJRT, commentary, QS, The Lost Road

Still... at the moment some things seem nicely grey  Nod

Love the cover illustration anyway... Huan! Huan! Huan!

In general many of my favorites by Lee from the constructed Tale of Hurin were the black and whites, and I'm hopeful to see more of these in the new book.
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Re: The General Tolkien News Thread

Post by Elthir on Thu Oct 20, 2016 4:08 pm

I just wanted all ones for a post count. Don't know why.

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Re: The General Tolkien News Thread

Post by David H on Fri Oct 21, 2016 2:14 am

cheers
:carrot: :carrot: :carrot:
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Re: The General Tolkien News Thread

Post by malickfan on Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:13 pm

I've seen some suggest that a reconstructed Fall Of Gondolin book might be next, similar to:

http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/The_Tale_of_Gondolin

But IIRC the existing Gondolin texts are too divergent and incomplete to edit together in the same way the various Children Of Hurin texts were, any new book would be more the work of the editor than Tolkien himself and it would need considereably more labour and invention than any other posthumous release since The Silmarillion itself...

Still it's a nice thought as the existing material is so vivid (Of Tuor... is i.m.o one of the finest pieces of writing by Tolkien), it would likely be Christopher last act as editor and literary executor were this to happen, and quite fitting, Tolkien's first full length Middle Earth story written being updated and finished as the last act by his successor...

I've seen some suggest that the publishing of a stand alone Beren and Luthien book is a cynical attempt to further protect the copyright and cash in on Tolkien seniors legacy, I'm not sure I can agree, but I'd certainly expect to see Warner Brothers make some noises about a possible adaptation sooner rather than later...

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Re: The General Tolkien News Thread

Post by malickfan on Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:13 pm

Elthir wrote:I just wanted all ones for a post count. Don't know why.

Laughing pub

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Re: The General Tolkien News Thread

Post by Eldorion on Sun Oct 23, 2016 7:03 pm

I'm not sure I see how the new edition would impact the copyright situation. All the details about Beren and Lúthien (beyond the very brief accounts related in LOTR) are already protected until 70 years after Christopher's death (which of course hasn't happened yet). IIRC from our previous discussions on this, anyway. I can sort of see where people are coming from on the cash-in thing but it's not like The Children of Húrin brought much new to the table either, and no one seems to.mind that. Even if, as seems likely, B&L is a different sort of book, I'm sure that having all the relevant texts in one volume will highlight certain elements differently than HoMe did, and will give a new, relatively easy point of entry to the First Age material, which seems like a positive for Tolkien's legacy IMO.

And congrats on the post milestone, Elthir! Very Happy
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Re: The General Tolkien News Thread

Post by malickfan on Tue Nov 01, 2016 8:08 pm

WB are releasing a cheaper blu ray boxset of the six extended editions, no statues, bookshelf or free artwork but it is much much cheaper that the other set (though according to one of the reviews on Amazon it dosen't include 3D versions and the special features are on DVD):

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Middle-Earth-Collection-Extended-Blu-Ray/dp/B01LTHMP46/

As much as I'm tempted to upgrade LOTR to Blu Ray I'm still holding out hope for the mythical ultimate edition to get released...

Christopher Tolkien has been awarded the Bodley Medal:

http://www.thebookseller.com/news/christopher-tolkien-awarded-bodley-medal-424211

Smile

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Re: The General Tolkien News Thread

Post by Eldorion on Tue Nov 01, 2016 8:20 pm

Never heard of the Bodley Medal before but it's cool to see more recognition for Christopher.

malickfan wrote:WB are releasing a cheaper blu ray boxset of the six extended editions, no statues, bookshelf or free artwork but it is much much cheaper that the other set (though according to one of the reviews on Amazon it dosen't include 3D versions and the special features are on DVD):

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Middle-Earth-Collection-Extended-Blu-Ray/dp/B01LTHMP46/

Called it. Very Happy Wasn't expecting it quite this soon though.

As much as I'm tempted to upgrade LOTR to Blu Ray I'm still holding out hope for the mythical ultimate edition to get released...

Any year now...

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Re: The General Tolkien News Thread

Post by halfwise on Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:37 pm

So is Blue-ray really better? I mainly read bad things, not only in the darker version of LotR but I think in Star Wars as well.

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Re: The General Tolkien News Thread

Post by halfwise on Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:44 pm

okay, found me a set of video comparisons that convinced me. It seems like often the color saturation is rejiggered when put on blue-ray, making many scenes look darker.

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Re: The General Tolkien News Thread

Post by Eldorion on Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:46 pm

The complaint about LOTR looking darker on Blu-ray is new to me. The main thing I hear people complain about is that FOTR-EE has a pervasive green tint that stands out when compared to the DVD in side-by-side comparison images, but I've never found it noticeable when watching the film normally. The Blu-rays definitely offer sharper and more detailed image quality so I enjoy having them, though it's not like the DVD releases were a slouch.
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Re: The General Tolkien News Thread

Post by halfwise on Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:50 pm

Oh, that was it, the green tint.

Now looking back, the main complaints about the Star Wars Blu-ray wasn't the look, but the changes Lucan made to, like, everything.

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Re: The General Tolkien News Thread

Post by Eldorion on Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:09 pm

Yeah. Laughing That's been true of most SW home video releases, though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_changes_in_Star_Wars_re-releases
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Re: The General Tolkien News Thread

Post by malickfan on Mon Nov 07, 2016 6:26 pm

Yet another Tolkien Biopic has been announced:

http://deadline.com/2016/11/james-strong-j-r-r-tolkien-middle-earth-the-lord-and-the-rings-unique-features-bob-shaye-michael-lynne-1201849947/

No idea if this is connected to or replacing any of the other bios we've heard about over the years,  I'm a tad uneasy about the description of it as an epic (Tolkien didn't see a huge amount of actual Combat Service during WW1, spending most of the conflict Ill in a series of Hospitals) and the involvement of the same people who greenlit the LOTR Movies immediately seems a little suspicious, the story is interesting for fans, but is it cinematic enough for casual viewers?

I certainly don't want to see Orlando Bloom shoehorned into dream sequences or some crap like that...

I'll be very interested to see if the Tolkien Estate comment on this publicly...

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Re: The General Tolkien News Thread

Post by malickfan on Sat Dec 31, 2016 8:45 pm

Eldorion wrote:Damn, that's huge news. Very cool that it'll be back in print and even more thorough.

Noticed these listed on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/J-R-Tolkien-Companion-Guide/dp/0008214522/

https://www.amazon.co.uk/J-R-Tolkien-Companion-Guide-x/dp/0008214530/

https://www.amazon.co.uk/J-R-Tolkien-Companion-Guide/dp/0008214514/

So it looks like the 2nd edition is being published in separate volumes again after all, potentially in paperback.

(That adds up to 2560 pages, 260 more than the 1st edition IIRC, though these are early listings and the details will probably change nearer release date)

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Re: The General Tolkien News Thread

Post by malickfan on Fri Jan 20, 2017 6:12 pm

https://www.tolkiensociety.org/blog/2017/01/2017-the-year-of-tolkien/

Aside from Tolkien’s 125th birthday, 2017 marks a number of important anniversaries of Tolkien publications:

80th anniversary of The Hobbit
80th anniversary of Beowulf: The Monsters and the Critics
70th anniversary of On Fairy-stories
50th anniversary of Smith of Wootton Major
40th anniversary of The Silmarillion
10th anniversary of The Children of Húrin
2017 also marks a few other milestones in the history of Tolkien fandom and scholarship:

100th anniversary of Edith dancing amongst the Hemlock, which became the germ of Beren meeting Lúthien
40th anniversary of Humphrey Carpenter’s J.R.R. Tolkien: A Biography
40th anniversary of the Rankin/Bass animated film The Hobbit
30th anniversary of The Lost Road
25th anniversary of Sauron Defeated
20th anniversary of Tales from the Perilous Realm
10th anniversary of The History of the Hobbit

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