The Three Hunters ... more like the Three Strollers, amirite?

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Re: The Three Hunters ... more like the Three Strollers, amirite?

Post by David H on Fri Mar 07, 2014 12:54 am

Any open grassland will have well-established game trails that are almost like highways if you're on foot. The animals always know the easiest routes (though not always necessarily going where you hoped...)
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Re: The Three Hunters ... more like the Three Strollers, amirite?

Post by Bluebottle on Fri Mar 07, 2014 12:54 am

But if it was that easy, why was the path hard to follow in the dark? scratch

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Congrats on your post count Blue!!  Shocked {{How quickly they get up their post counts!}}

Thank you Petty. Almost a tenth of yours.  Shocked

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Re: The Three Hunters ... more like the Three Strollers, amirite?

Post by Norc on Fri Mar 07, 2014 12:55 am

Bluebottle wrote:But if it was that easy, why was the path hard to follow in the dark? scratch
because the grass became shorter and the ground harder i think.
but again, someone needs to dig their copy out and find out. my light bulb is dead...so i can't.
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Re: The Three Hunters ... more like the Three Strollers, amirite?

Post by David H on Fri Mar 07, 2014 12:57 am

I can't remember, do we know the phase of the moon or the cloud cover? Dark can be very dark.
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Re: The Three Hunters ... more like the Three Strollers, amirite?

Post by Norc on Fri Mar 07, 2014 12:59 am

i have a feeling since Saruman is putting down their spirit and that he controls weather (see caradhras) i have a strong feeling it wasn't sunny and no clouds and a full moon brightening their way..
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Re: The Three Hunters ... more like the Three Strollers, amirite?

Post by Bluebottle on Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:02 am

Yeah, I meant if the orcs cut a broad path in tall grass as Petty said. But you said that changed.

I do like that Tolkiens story stands up to this amount of scrutiny though.  Laughing

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Re: The Three Hunters ... more like the Three Strollers, amirite?

Post by Mrs Figg on Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:16 am

you have to take into account that an Elf is pretty superhuman in strength, as is a Dwarf, Aragorn is a Dunedain and used to extreme hardship plus he's not exactly a normal man, so all in all these three would be able to outrun any normal person.

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Re: The Three Hunters ... more like the Three Strollers, amirite?

Post by bungobaggins on Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:35 am

Impressive work Eldo and Norc. cheers

Looking at it this way, there doesn't seem to be much urgency for the hunters. Speed-walking across Middle-earth. Razz
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Re: The Three Hunters ... more like the Three Strollers, amirite?

Post by David H on Fri Mar 07, 2014 2:43 am

Eldorion wrote:
According to the Tale of Years (found in ROTK, Appendix B) the three hunters began their pursuit of the Uruk-hai on the evening of February 26, and they met Eomer on February 30 (yes, February has 30 days in Middle-earth; it uses a different calendar even though Tolkien substituted in our month names).  The time of day at which they meet Eomer is not explicitly stated but it follows the company watching a sunrise, so let's say it's about three and a half days total.  The distance they traveled was 45 leagues, or 135 miles (cf. Unfinished Tales, Disaster of the Gladden Fields for conversion information), or 216 km.  216/3.5 = about 62 km per day.

One more reference mark: The 2013 24-hour-run championship in the Netherlands.

The men's winner completed 269.675 km in 24 hours.
The women's winner, from Japan, completed 252.205 km in 24 hours.

That's quite a bit more distance in one day than the 3 hunters covered in four.

{{{Plus I love the image of a little Japanese woman running Leggy into the ground! Very Happy }}}
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Re: The Three Hunters ... more like the Three Strollers, amirite?

Post by halfwise on Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:26 am

Yeah, I remember doing the mental calculation when I first read the books and not being very impressed. It's not that it's an extremely difficult feat, it's just not normally done. I think Eomer would not be so impressed by the slightly strenuous physicality so much as by the urgency that would make them do it.

I think PJ was right to play it up, the 'reality' wasn't too exciting.

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Re: The Three Hunters ... more like the Three Strollers, amirite?

Post by azriel on Fri Mar 07, 2014 9:51 am

There is a part where, after deciding whether to go on or rest during the night, the 3 do rest & when Aragorn rises he sees Leggy still up & looking forward.
"They are far away" he said sadly,turning to Aragorn."I know in my heart that they have not rested this night. Only an eagle could overtake them now".
Would this be a good time for someone else to think...."shit, why cant the eagles take us to Mordor?!"

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Re: The Three Hunters ... more like the Three Strollers, amirite?

Post by halfwise on Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:47 pm

Yep, while everyone was jumping up and down being wrongly impressed by the 3 hunters, the orcs were the ones doing the miracles. Why don't the poor orcs ever get some credit? They deserve some love same as everyone else. Tolkien is so dismissive of them.  Sad 

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Re: The Three Hunters ... more like the Three Strollers, amirite?

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Mar 07, 2014 2:12 pm

In fairness they do comment on how quickly the orcs are moving and do seem grudgingly impressed by it.

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Re: The Three Hunters ... more like the Three Strollers, amirite?

Post by Mrs Figg on Fri Mar 07, 2014 2:18 pm

um can I have my fantasy back now?  No
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Re: The Three Hunters ... more like the Three Strollers, amirite?

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Mar 07, 2014 2:37 pm

I think taking the terrain, the need to scout the trail and keep an eye for clues like discarded brooches, its a perfectly reasonable time frame to make such a journey.

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Re: The Three Hunters ... more like the Three Strollers, amirite?

Post by Bluebottle on Fri Mar 07, 2014 2:39 pm

What's also interesting about that quote, Azriel, is that it was at the beggining of the third day, and that at that point they had already kind of given up on catching up to the orcs. So their speed would probably have decresed after that point. And as they started the journey going slowly through the Emyn Muil, they must have gone a lot faster betwen these two points to get their overall speed as high as it was.

Also, thinking about it, doesn't the fact that they were jogging basically add realism to the story? That's what one would do to keep going on such a march. One could argue that Tolkien basically made their effort human. And therefore more beliveable.  Shrugging 

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Re: The Three Hunters ... more like the Three Strollers, amirite?

Post by Mrs Figg on Fri Mar 07, 2014 2:45 pm

so thats a No then.

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Re: The Three Hunters ... more like the Three Strollers, amirite?

Post by Eldorion on Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:00 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:I think taking the terrain, the need to scout the trail and keep an eye for clues like discarded brooches, its a perfectly reasonable time frame to make such a journey.

That's why we made this thread though. A lot of people (myself included) follow Eomer's lead and the film dialogue and treat it as a superhuman feat of endurance when it's actually well within the realm of plausibility even for non-athletes.
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Re: The Three Hunters ... more like the Three Strollers, amirite?

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:12 pm

As I said before I doubt Eomer would know how long it would take.

Aragorn is out to impress him- before we get to the bit where Eomer is impressed by the feat Aragorn has already sought to impress him with lots of other things, he brings Lothlorien, Gandalf and Shadowfax into it and makes wonderful statements like "The Orcs whom I pursued took captive two of my friends. In such need a man that has no horse will go on foot, and he will not ask for leave to follow the trail. Nor will he count the heads of the enemy save with a sword. I am not weaponless." and then he gives one of his big role calls of his name and ends on an ultimatum "Will you aid me or thwart me? Choose swiftly!"

Aragorn is being political in his encounter with Eomer, he speaks as an equal to the King of Rohan ("You may say this to Theoden son of Thengel.."), he needs Eomer on his side.

When Aragorn finally mentions towards the end of the conversation that they have been pursuing on foot from Tol Brandir Eomer is therefore impressed, but what clearly impresses him is that they did it without horses - "on foot?"

I think Eomer's reaction is a mixture of Aragorns onslaught of titles, claims and name dropping combined with his own lack of a sense of travelling long distances on foot compared to horse.
This Aragorn is like one of the old legends springing to life out the grass.
I think Eomers mind set when he makes the comments about the pursuit is important here.

And Aragorn is quite happy for Eomer to see it this way as it serves his wider political purposes in Rohan and he needs Eomer on side, both in the short term for the immediate need and in the longer run convincing the King (bear in mind from Aragorn's point of view Gandalf is gone and it will fall to him to convince Theoden to act).

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Re: The Three Hunters ... more like the Three Strollers, amirite?

Post by David H on Fri Mar 07, 2014 4:11 pm

Mrs Figg wrote:um can I have my fantasy back now?  

I'm sorry but I'm afraid not, Mrs Figg. At least not yet.

This is a serious issue, every bit as serious as the colour of Shadowfax, and it needs to be treated accordingly. Nod 
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Re: The Three Hunters ... more like the Three Strollers, amirite?

Post by azriel on Fri Mar 07, 2014 4:16 pm

Can I have a fantasy ? If your dolling them out ? mrs Figg wants one, Id like one also.  Wink

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Re: The Three Hunters ... more like the Three Strollers, amirite?

Post by Eldorion on Fri Mar 07, 2014 4:52 pm

Yeah, I agreed with you about Eomer earlier, Petty, but that doesn't change what common perception is.
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Re: The Three Hunters ... more like the Three Strollers, amirite?

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:02 pm

Well not my fault you misread the book and spent a whole evening working out a false premise now is it?!  Mad 

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Re: The Three Hunters ... more like the Three Strollers, amirite?

Post by David H on Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:45 pm

azriel wrote:Can I have a fantasy ? If your dolling them out ? mrs Figg wants one, Id like one also.  Wink

OK Azriel, you can have a fantasy when Mrs Figg's turn is done.

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Re: The Three Hunters ... more like the Three Strollers, amirite?

Post by Mrs Figg on Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:03 pm



Photos??? ok brace yourself!.....its not pretty......

Spoiler:

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