A Song of Ice and Fire [2]

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [2]

Post by Bluebottle on Fri May 02, 2014 10:53 pm

This is rather funny in all it's awkwardness.


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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [2]

Post by Bluebottle on Fri May 02, 2014 10:55 pm

halfwise wrote:Figgs, I thought you stalled on reading the books, or are you getting all your book knowledge off the web?  You're giving opinions on the boring storylines as though you've read it...

Am I right in remembering you not being all that satisfied with Brans storyline?  Razz 

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [2]

Post by Mrs Figg on Fri May 02, 2014 11:04 pm

well it seems to consist of wandering about a lot in the books. But I thought this last episode overdid the gruesome bit in the last section with Bran in Crasters Keep. way too much.
Spoiler:
the 'rebels' are just cardboard cut out villains, it gets a bit tedious when its never ending horror
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [2]

Post by Bluebottle on Fri May 02, 2014 11:17 pm

Spoiler:
Yeah, though it's a very directed straight forward journey and when you read it the exitement I guess is a lot down to wether they're going to make it and feeling the white walkers might turn up at any time.. And just when you think they've made it... But that is perhaps saying too much again.  Laughing 

A lot of what's interesting about his story is where they end up too though.

Yeah, I kind of feel the same way about Crasters. Though some of that will have gone on in the book to of course, just not told. Not the Bran related stuff though.

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [2]

Post by Forest Shepherd on Sat May 03, 2014 6:49 am

I'm going to get flak again from the progressives/realists/whatitwhosies, but any scene in film or television in which a character is talking to another character while someone has grunty, visual sex in the background (usually with the girl on a table), well... It's pretty freakin' stupid.

It was dumb in Gangs of New York and it was sure dumb in this latest season. I agree with the whole cardboard cutouts idea for the rebels at Crasters. Although some characterization seeps through now and then, they are largely just silly.
(Great video by the way. Hempstead-Wright (Bran) was particularly wonderfully awkward with that laugh of his. And nice to find out that the Hound is played by a Scotsman).
P.S.
Interesting how the tv series let slip the
Spoiler:
eventual destination for all those Sons of Craster. I may have been mistaken, but the figure that performed the transformation seemed to have somewhat of an icy crown on its head. Anyway, interesting to see stuff in television series that I haven't yet seen even at the end of the fifth book.

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [2]

Post by Lancebloke on Sat May 03, 2014 8:12 am

I am not sure that the background sex is stupid... They are a bunch of rapists and murderers and other criminals that have just forsaken the last oath they took so in the setting it isn't anything surprising. It did, however, seek to me like the whole scene has been contrived to make you dislike certain people for when it comes to them getting killed (assuming they do since it isn't in the book).

The Bran storyline in the book is quite boring as nothing seems to be getting achieved where I am up to. Since they have a bug focus away from the wolf thing on TV as well as Jon knowing Bran is alive... They had to do something extra with Bran as they were the only book bits that were interesting when it came to him.

For book readers, is it me or does nothing happen in Feast for Crows? I am hoping the end of the book makes my hours of reading worth it as I am struggling to get through it right now... It is quite dull.

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [2]

Post by Ringdrotten on Sat May 03, 2014 11:55 am

So far I think A Feast for Crows has been the weakest. I'm currently reading the fifth book, and I'm enjoying that one a lot more. It's not quite up there with books 1-3, though, but one can hope Smile

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [2]

Post by Eldorion on Sat May 03, 2014 4:47 pm

I actually made the decision to finally plunge into book three a couple of days ago. I disliked AFFC so strongly that I didn't want to buy the book, and the library had a nine month waiting list even a year after the book was published. My dad finally got the book when he was reading the series several months ago, and he gave it to me when he was done (he'd borrowed the first four from me). Talking about ASOIAF with my co-worker who hasn't seen the show and is reading the books for the first time convinced me to give it a try. So far it's definitely an improvement on AFFC, but like Ringo says, not as good as the first three. I got through 170 pages in the first two days (and no, I was not reading it non-stop) but didn't do any reading yesterday. Shrugging
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [2]

Post by Mrs Figg on Sat May 03, 2014 6:24 pm

I wanted to ask book Readers about the Crasters Keep section. and the tv version.
Spoiler:
In the book has Ghost been captured? and is Bran's Direwolf Summer also captured like in this last episode? I think its cool if Bran and Jon meet up in Crasters and also two Direwolves, I want to see more of them, and I was wondering what had happened to Ghost. Also were there 6 Direwolves in the books I cant remember, one for Sansa, Arya, Jon, Rob and Bran and little Bran whats-his-name Rickon? In the series, Aryas and Robs wolves are dead, Jons and Brans are captured, what happened to Lady Sansas wolf and Rickons?

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [2]

Post by Eldorion on Sat May 03, 2014 6:34 pm

Spoilers for all books:

Spoiler:
The six direwolves in the books are:

Grey Wind (Robb): killed immediately after the Red Wedding
Lady (Sansa): executed by Ned, on King Robert's orders, after Nymeria attacked Joffrey and then escaped
Nymeria (Arya): stalking the lands around the Trident since attacking Joffrey. Arya chased her away so she wouldn't be killed
Summer (Bran): travels with Bran and a few others; they're north of the Wall in Book 5. They never visit Craster's.
Shaggydog (Rickon): unknown, probably fled to Skagos with Rickon and Osha
Ghost (Jon): with Jon at Castle Black, both of their fates unclear as of the end of Book 5
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [2]

Post by Bluebottle on Sun May 04, 2014 8:39 pm

Figg;
Spoiler:

Neither Ghost or Summer is captured in the book, as neither Jon or Bran goes anywhere near Crasters Keep.

And this sums up what Eldo said about the Direwolfs, mostly, in Georges own words.

Spoiler:
The white wolf raced through a black wood, beneath a pale cliff as tall as the sky. The moon ran with him, slipping through a tangle of bare branches overhead, across the starry sky.

“Snow,” the moon murmured. The wolf made no answer. Snow crunched beneath his paws. The wind sighed through the trees.

Far off, he could hear his packmates calling to him, like to like. They were hunting too. A wild rain lashed down upon his black brother as he tore at the flesh of an enormous goat, washing the blood from his side where the goat’s long horn had raked him. In another place, his little sister lifted her head to sing to the moon, and a hundred small grey cousins broke off their hunt to sing with her. The hills were warmer where they were, and full of food. Many a night his sister’s pack gorged on the flesh of sheep and cows and horses, the prey of men, and sometimes even on the flesh of man himself.

“Snow,” the moon called down again, cackling. The white wolf padded along the man trail beneath the icy cliff. The taste of blood was on his tongue, and his ears rang to the song of the hundred cousins. Once they had been six, five whimpering blind in the snow beside their dead mother, sucking cool milk from her hard dead nipples whilst he crawled off alone. Four remained ... and one the white wolf could no longer sense.

“Snow,” the moon insisted.

The white wolf ran from it, racing toward the cave of night where the sun had hidden, his breath frosting in the air. On starless nights the great cliff was as black as stone, a darkness towering high above the wide world, but when the moon came out it shimmered pale and icy as a frozen stream. The wolf’s pelt was thick and shaggy, but when the wind blew along the ice no fur could keep the chill out. On the other side the wind was colder still, the wolf sensed. That was where his brother was, the grey brother who smelled of summer.
“Snow.” An icicle tumbled from a branch. The white wolf turned and bared his teeth. “Snow!”

His fur rose bristling, as the woods dissolved around him. “Snow, snow, snow!” He heard the beat of wings. Through the gloom a raven flew.

It landed on Jon Snow’s chest with a thump and a scrabbling of claws. “SNOW!” it screamed into his face.

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [2]

Post by Bluebottle on Sun May 04, 2014 8:42 pm

Oh, and, leafing through a pdf version of A Dance with Dragons to find that Direwolf thing, I came across this example of Sam not telling Jon in the books.

Spoiler:
Sam read it slowly. “A letter to King Tommen?”

“At Winterfell, Tommen fought my brother Bran with wooden swords,” Jon said, remembering. “He wore so much padding he looked like a stuffed goose. Bran knocked him to the ground.” He went to the window and threw the shutters open. The air outside was cold and bracing, though the sky was a dull grey. “Yet Bran’s dead, and pudgy pink -faced Tommen is sitting on the Iron Throne, with a crown nestled amongst his golden curls.”

That got an odd look from Sam, and for a moment he looked as if he wanted to say something.

Instead he swallowed and turned back to the parchment. “You haven’t signed the letter.”

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [2]

Post by Bluebottle on Sun May 04, 2014 8:47 pm

Talking AFFC and ADWD, George and the publishers made a bit of a mess of those two books. It has AFFC featuring one group of characters and ADWD featuring another seperated geographically, with some characters from the former popping up at the end of the latter. Also they decided to remove the planned end of ADWD and move it too WOW, which is yet to be released.

AFFC certainly comes across as the poorer half, and George has pretty much admitted it was a stop gap book as the thing he was writing became far too long.

Also I heard somewhere that neither book were originally intended to even be written, Shocked , as George originally planned a five year gap in the story where they take place. Which might account a bit for how they turned out..

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [2]

Post by Bluebottle on Sun May 04, 2014 9:01 pm

Interestingly someone proposed reading the two books chronologically. It turns the story into one monumental book, but I'm wondering if that might not be the best way to read them.

And it apparently alleviates some of the problems AFFC has.  Shrugging 

Spoiler:


Prologue: ADWD 1
Prologue: AFFC 1
The Prophet: AFFC 2
The Captain of Guards: AFFC 3
Cersei I: AFFC 4
Tyrion I: ADWD 2
Daenerys I: ADWD 3
Brienne I: AFFC 5
Jon I: ADWD 4
Bran I: ADWD 5
Tyrion II: ADWD 6
Samwell I: AFFC 6
Jon II: ADWD 8
Arya I: AFFC 7
Cersei II: AFFC 8
Jaime I: AFFC 9
Brienne II: AFFC 10
Sansa I: AFFC 11
The Kraken’s Daughter: AFFC 12
Tyrion III: ADWD 9
Davos I: ADWD 10
Jon III: ADWD 11
Daenerys II: ADWD 12
Reek I: ADWD 13
Cersei III: AFFC 13
The Soiled Knight: AFFC 14
Bran II: ADWD 14
Tyrion IV: ADWD 15
Davos II: ADWD 16
Brienne III: AFFC 15
Samwell II: AFFC 16
Daenerys III: ADWD 17
Jon IV: ADWD 18
Jaime II: AFFC 17
Tyrion V: ADWD 19
Cersei IV: AFFC 18
Davos III: ADWD 20
The Iron Captain: AFFC 19
The Drowned Man: AFFC 20
Brienne IV: AFFC 21
The Queenmaker: AFFC 22
Arya II: AFFC 23
Alayne I: AFFC 24
The Princess in the Tower: AFFC 41
The Merchant’s Man: ADWD 7
Cersei V: AFFC 25
Reek II: ADWD 21
Jon V: ADWD 22
Tyrion VI: ADWD 23
Daenerys IV: ADWD 24
The Lost Lord: ADWD 25
The Windblown: ADWD 26
The Wayward Bride: ADWD 27
Brienne V: AFFC 26
Samwell III: AFFC 27
Jaime III: AFFC 28
Tyrion VII: ADWD 28
Jon VI: ADWD 29
Davos IV: ADWD 30
Cersei VI: AFFC 29
The Reaver: AFFC 30
Daenerys V: ADWD 31
Melisandre I: ADWD 32
Jaime IV: AFFC 31
Brienne VI: AFFC 32
Reek III: ADWD 33
Tyrion VIII: ADWD 34
Cersei VII: AFFC 33
Jaime V: AFFC 34
Cat of the Canals: AFFC 35
Samwell IV: AFFC 36
Cersei VIII: AFFC 37
Brienne VII: AFFC 38
Jaime VI: AFFC 39
Cersei IX: AFFC 40
Bran III: ADWD 35
Jon VII: ADWD 36
Daenerys VI: ADWD 37
The Prince of Winterfell: ADWD 38
The Watcher: ADWD 39
Jon VIII: ADWD 40
Tyrion IX: ADWD 41
The Turncloak: ADWD 42
The King’s Prize: ADWD 43
Daenerys VII: ADWD 44
Alayne II: AFFC 42
Jon IX: ADWD 45
Brienne VIII: AFFC 43
Cersei X: AFFC 44
Jaime VII: AFFC 45
Samwell V: AFFC 46
The Blind Girl: ADWD 46
A Ghost in Winterfell: ADWD 47
Tyrion X: ADWD 48
Jaime VIII: ADWD 49
Jon X: ADWD 50
Daenerys VIII: ADWD 51
Theon VII: ADWD 52
Daenerys IX: ADWD 53
Jon XI: ADWD 54
Cersei XI: ADWD 55
The Queensguard: ADWD 56
The Iron Suitor: ADWD 57
Tyrion XI: ADWD 58
Jon XII: ADWD 59
The Discarded Knight: ADWD 60
The Spurned Suitor: ADWD 61
The Griffin Reborn: ADWD 62
The Sacrifice: ADWD 63
Victarion: ADWD 64
The Ugly Little Girl: ADWD 65
Cersei XII: ADWD 66
Tyrion XII: ADWD 67
The Kingbreaker: ADWD 68
The Dragontamer: ADWD 69
Jon XIII: ADWD 70
The Queen’s Hand: ADWD 71
Daenerys X: ADWD 72
Epilogue: ADWD 73

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [2]

Post by Ringdrotten on Sun May 04, 2014 9:06 pm

I read a review on amazon that suggested doing the same, though I had already read book four by that time so it was a little to late. Could be worth a try if I decide to reread the series at some point Smile

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [2]

Post by Bluebottle on Sun May 04, 2014 9:28 pm

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking too.  Nod

Though maybe with the audiobooks. Jumping betwen two bulky paperbacks might be a bit of a pain.

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [2]

Post by Eldorion on Sun May 04, 2014 11:38 pm

Bluebottle wrote:Also I heard somewhere that neither book were originally intended to even be written, Shocked , as George originally planned a five year gap in the story where they take place. Which might account a bit for how they turned out..

If I recall correctly, Martin had been working on the fourth book with the understanding that there would be a timeskip until about 2002, when he decided not to use the timeskip and had to start over from the end of ASOS. AFFC was eventually published in 2005, with a note at the end stating the rest of the characters would appear in a volume the following year. Interestingly, the end of ASOS is roughly where Martin had imagined the first volume of the series ending when he was planning to write a trilogy; an idea he abandoned before any of the books was published. Laughing
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [2]

Post by Eldorion on Sun May 04, 2014 11:40 pm

Bluebottle wrote:Interestingly someone proposed reading the two books chronologically. It turns the story into one monumental book, but I'm wondering if that might not be the best way to read them.

And it apparently alleviates some of the problems AFFC has.  Shrugging 

That's a really intriguing idea, and I'm glad someone made a chapter list like that. :nod:I can't say I have any desire to revisit AFFC right now, but if I ever re-read the entire series I might use this method.  So far ADWD is definitely better, though that's largely because it has most of my favorite characters.  Hopefully the Cersei et al chapters at the end of ADWD will be good too, though him having moved the conclusion to TWOW makes me fear the ending will be as abrupt and unsatisfying as AFFC's. Neutral
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [2]

Post by Mrs Figg on Thu May 08, 2014 12:50 am

nice episode.  Razz  Briennes having another bromance

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [2]

Post by Mrs Figg on Fri May 09, 2014 9:42 pm

Spoiler:
so book Readers. I get the impression crazy Lyssa will shortly take a dive down the moonhole thingie, does Littlefinger want to marry Sansa once he has The Vale in his power? he was in love with Cat, maybe he wants to get the next best thing, her daughter.
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [2]

Post by halfwise on Fri May 09, 2014 9:49 pm

Spoiler:
He's a manipulator par excellance, but he's not a creep.
.

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [2]

Post by Lancebloke on Fri May 09, 2014 9:58 pm

On last chapter of AFFCs.... It finally got interesting!

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [2]

Post by Mrs Figg on Fri May 09, 2014 9:59 pm

Spoiler:
I never thought I would hear anyone say that. he is defo a creepy guy  scratch 
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [2]

Post by halfwise on Fri May 09, 2014 10:08 pm

Spoiler:
He's pushed a bit more towards creepitude in the series by the way he treats his stable of prostitutes. In the books I recall him being more protective of them.

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [2]

Post by Eldorion on Fri May 09, 2014 10:10 pm

Depending on how far in the books we get...

Spoilers for AFFC:
Littlefinger leaves absolutely no doubt about his creep status when he kisses Sansa because she reminds him of her mother.
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