In defense of The Two Towers (which is your favorite?)

Page 5 of 6 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: In defense of The Two Towers (which is your favorite?)

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sat May 10, 2014 5:23 am

I don't see how showing a map for the benefit of the movie audience is at all unreasonable.- Eldo

Its not, but the manner in which it is done is poor because there is no narrative reason for it, its there to show the audience, and there is barely any pretence otherwise.
Had they included a map scene when he returns to Miinas Tirith instead it would have serve the same purpose whilst also serving a narrative purpose of demonstrating Minas Tirith is ruled.
Putting it where they do, right after the clumsy here is what is going on telepathy just makes it seem obtrusive and unnecessary.

Also when there is no intercutting between story lines its considerably less necessary.

_________________
Pure Publications is Reasonably Proud to Present the first ever Forumshire novel!

Gingerlocks and the Three McTyrants

- get your copy here for a limited period- free*



*Pure Publications reserves the right to track your usage of this publication, snoop on your home address, go through your bins and sell personal information on to the highest bidder.
avatar
Pettytyrant101
Crabbitmeister

Posts : 39454
Join date : 2011-02-14
Age : 46
Location : Scotshobbitland

Back to top Go down

Re: In defense of The Two Towers (which is your favorite?)

Post by David H on Sat May 10, 2014 7:32 am

Eldorion wrote:BTW, Petty and Dave, I'm not trying to ignore your guys' posts about the intercutting thing, I'm too tired to write a response to that right now so I'll have to revisit it tomorrow.  Hopefully this post will help remind me. Razz

No worries Eldo. Remember, being an Admin means never having to say you're sorry. Smile

_________________
 
 ...................................
avatar
David H
Horsemaster, Fighting Bears in the Pacific Northwest

Posts : 6510
Join date : 2011-11-18

Back to top Go down

Re: In defense of The Two Towers (which is your favorite?)

Post by Forest Shepherd on Sat May 10, 2014 11:18 am

Pettytyrant101 wrote:I don't see how showing a map for the benefit of the movie audience is at all unreasonable.- Eldo

Its not, but the manner in which it is done is poor because there is no narrative reason for it, its there to show the audience, and there is barely any pretence otherwise.
Had they included a map scene when he returns to Miinas Tirith instead it would have serve the same purpose whilst also serving a narrative purpose of demonstrating Minas Tirith is ruled.
Putting it where they do, right after the clumsy here is what is going on telepathy just makes it seem obtrusive and unnecessary.

Also when there is no intercutting between story lines its considerably less necessary.
It always felt rather like I was being talked down to. Simplifying all the things that might be on Faramir's mind as a captain of men specifically functioning in Ithilien down to the central idea that Saruman is off north somewhere being a pain and the fight in Osgiliath going poorly is quite the dumbing-down of even the basic strategies that the hobbits are privy to in the book. I seem to remember their film-dialogue perhaps including some smarter details, but the finger pointing was a bit crude for audience member's familiar with the story.

_________________
Boar is badger, named after wood,
Not after forest but trees.
Where did you play on a rainy day?
Where did I eat bread and cheese?
Search inside, stay indoors,
Look up and find the secret is yours.
Your castle your fort,
Or so you thought.
The way is in four trees.
The way is in Boar in Brockhall
Under ale, under bread, under cheese.

-Mossflower, by Brian Jacques.
avatar
Forest Shepherd
Adventurer

Posts : 3499
Join date : 2013-11-02
Age : 26
Location : Northern California

Back to top Go down

Re: In defense of The Two Towers (which is your favorite?)

Post by halfwise on Sat May 10, 2014 3:22 pm

But many other audience members were not familiar with the story.  It may not have been something Faramir would have done in real life, but I thought it was an effective way to show what was going on.  Shakespeare is never criticized for his soliliquys, I don't really see the difference here.

EDIT: except of course, PJ is no shakespeare.

_________________
Halfwise, son of Halfwit. Brother of Nitwit, son of Halfwit. Half brother of Figwit.
Then it gets complicated...
avatar
halfwise
Quintessence of Burrahobbitry

Posts : 13043
Join date : 2012-02-01
Location : rustic broom closet in farthing of Manhattan

Back to top Go down

Re: In defense of The Two Towers (which is your favorite?)

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sat May 10, 2014 4:03 pm

I dont actually think it is at all necessary to follow events and the story. It is not in my edit and I never heard anyone complain that they did not know what was going on.
But putting that aside I still think it is done clumsily and for no other purpose than to show the audience the map and where everyone is- and that could have been better achieved at Minas Tirith where it would also have served a wider story purpose, so making it feel less like an insertion solely for the audience.

Also its the same map as Bilbo's which gives the impression there is one cartographer somewhere supplying identical maps from the Shire to Gondor.

_________________
Pure Publications is Reasonably Proud to Present the first ever Forumshire novel!

Gingerlocks and the Three McTyrants

- get your copy here for a limited period- free*



*Pure Publications reserves the right to track your usage of this publication, snoop on your home address, go through your bins and sell personal information on to the highest bidder.
avatar
Pettytyrant101
Crabbitmeister

Posts : 39454
Join date : 2011-02-14
Age : 46
Location : Scotshobbitland

Back to top Go down

Re: In defense of The Two Towers (which is your favorite?)

Post by halfwise on Sat May 10, 2014 4:08 pm

I suspect everyone who's seen your edit is familiar with the story.

Same map as Bilbo? yeah, well....

_________________
Halfwise, son of Halfwit. Brother of Nitwit, son of Halfwit. Half brother of Figwit.
Then it gets complicated...
avatar
halfwise
Quintessence of Burrahobbitry

Posts : 13043
Join date : 2012-02-01
Location : rustic broom closet in farthing of Manhattan

Back to top Go down

Re: In defense of The Two Towers (which is your favorite?)

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sat May 10, 2014 4:11 pm

Not true- I have friends and family who have neither read the book nor seen PJ's films but who have watched my edits (I had to have a test group to make sure it was still a coherent watchable film in its own right).

On the maps, I rather always liked the idea that all the maps we see in Bilbo's study were done by him, the way they were visualised for the film they had that nice hand drawn in ink look about them, so kind of spoils it when it turns out everyone in ME with a map has one exactly like it clearly made by the same hand.

_________________
Pure Publications is Reasonably Proud to Present the first ever Forumshire novel!

Gingerlocks and the Three McTyrants

- get your copy here for a limited period- free*



*Pure Publications reserves the right to track your usage of this publication, snoop on your home address, go through your bins and sell personal information on to the highest bidder.
avatar
Pettytyrant101
Crabbitmeister

Posts : 39454
Join date : 2011-02-14
Age : 46
Location : Scotshobbitland

Back to top Go down

Re: In defense of The Two Towers (which is your favorite?)

Post by Mrs Figg on Sat May 10, 2014 6:21 pm

#nitpickingaboutmapsohmy

_________________
avatar
Mrs Figg
Eel Wrangler from Bree

Posts : 21857
Join date : 2011-10-06
Age : 87
Location : Holding The Door

Back to top Go down

Re: In defense of The Two Towers (which is your favorite?)

Post by Mrs Figg on Sat May 10, 2014 6:50 pm


_________________
avatar
Mrs Figg
Eel Wrangler from Bree

Posts : 21857
Join date : 2011-10-06
Age : 87
Location : Holding The Door

Back to top Go down

Re: In defense of The Two Towers (which is your favorite?)

Post by RA on Sat May 10, 2014 7:08 pm

He's been known to do that  Laughing 

_________________
"No one knows what the new day shall bring him" -Aragorn T.A. 3019 March 4th
Save Merp for 2013!
25,000 and counting. 12-23-12
"From him they learnt many things it were not good for any but the great Valar to know, for being half-comprehended such deep hidden things slay happiness; and besides many of the sayings of Melko were cunning lies or were but partly true, and the Noldoli ceased to sing, and their viols fell silent upon the hill of Kôr, for their hearts grew somewhat older as their lore grew deeper and their desires more swollen, and the books of their wisdom were multiplied as the leaves of the forest."

Remember Merp - July 11th, 2013
avatar
RA
Defender of the faith and Dunedain of the thread

Posts : 1738
Join date : 2012-02-12
Location : Buckland

Back to top Go down

Re: In defense of The Two Towers (which is your favorite?)

Post by Eldorion on Thu May 15, 2014 5:51 am

Looks like the pro-FOTR camp has gained support from Viggo (who I think has made similar comments in the past, but I can't be arsed to check).

Viggo Mortensen interview from The Telegraph

Now, 14 years on, Mortensen has enough distance from the series to admit that the process of making it was more or less complete chaos.

“Anybody who says they knew it was going to be the success it was, I don’t think it’s really true,” he says. “They didn’t have an inkling until they showed 20 minutes in Cannes, in May of 2001. They were in a lot of trouble, and Peter had spent a lot. Officially, he could say that he was finished in December 2000 – he’d shot all three films in the trilogy – but really the second and third ones were a mess. It was very sloppy – it just wasn’t done at all. It needed massive reshoots, which we did, year after year. But he would have never been given the extra money to do those if the first one hadn’t been a huge success. The second and third ones would have been straight to video.”

Mortensen thinks – rightly – that The Fellowship of the Ring turned out the best of the three, perhaps largely because it was shot in one go. “It was very confusing, we were going at such a pace, and they had so many units shooting, it was really insane. But it’s true that the first script was better organised,” he says. “Also, Peter was always a geek in terms of technology but, once he had the means to do it, and the evolution of the technology really took off, he never looked back. In the first movie, yes, there’s Rivendell, and Mordor, but there’s sort of an organic quality to it, actors acting with each other, and real landscapes; it’s grittier. The second movie already started ballooning, for my taste, and then by the third one, there were a lot of special effects. It was grandiose, and all that, but whatever was subtle, in the first movie, gradually got lost in the second and third. Now with The Hobbit, one and two, it’s like that to the power of 10.

“I guess Peter became like Ridley Scott – this one-man industry now, with all these people depending on him,” Mortensen adds. “But you can make a choice, I think. I asked Ridley when I worked with him (on 1997’s GI Jane), 'Why don’t you do another film like The Duellists [Scott’s 1977 debut, from a Joseph Conrad short story]?’ And Peter, I was sure he would do another intimately scaled film like Heavenly Creatures, maybe with this project about New Zealanders in the First World War he wanted to make. But then he did King Kong. And then he did The Lovely Bones – and I thought that would be his smaller movie. But the problem is, he did it on a $90 million budget. That should have been a $15 million movie. The special effects thing, the genie, was out of the bottle, and it has him. And he’s happy, I think…

His stories about Cronenberg are also interesting.  I think A History of Violence is probably my favorite Viggo performance, though I did like Hidalgo a lot as a kid.
avatar
Eldorion
You're Gonna Carry That Weight

Posts : 22599
Join date : 2011-02-13
Age : 23
Location : Maryland, United States

http://nolondil.tumblr.com/essays

Back to top Go down

Re: In defense of The Two Towers (which is your favorite?)

Post by Lorient Avandi on Thu May 15, 2014 6:22 am

That's a pretty interesting interview with Viggo, and I definitely agree with him on his thoughts of PJ's growing special effects addiction. Though I'm not sure which LOTR film is my favorite, I can definitely see where he and other are coming from on FOTR.

BTW, I have seen Viggo in LOTR and The Road, both of which I really like him in. He was stellar in The Road IMO.

_________________
I was a baby when I learned to suck, but you have raised it to an art-form
avatar
Lorient Avandi
Wizard of Magicland

Posts : 728
Join date : 2011-08-08
Age : 21
Location : Utah, USA

Back to top Go down

Re: In defense of The Two Towers (which is your favorite?)

Post by Eldorion on Thu May 15, 2014 6:25 am

I actually haven't seen The Road myself, though I know I need to rectify that sooner or later. Razz
avatar
Eldorion
You're Gonna Carry That Weight

Posts : 22599
Join date : 2011-02-13
Age : 23
Location : Maryland, United States

http://nolondil.tumblr.com/essays

Back to top Go down

Re: In defense of The Two Towers (which is your favorite?)

Post by azriel on Thu May 15, 2014 8:58 am

Its nice to read actors views & opinions of any given film, years later when they can better see the wood for the trees ! At the time its a carnival & your swept up in the wave but, later, you can see the flaws, holes & fooking cock ups clearer. Id like to 'hear' how other actors from LOTRs feel now ?

_________________
"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. It's the job that's never started as takes longest to finish.”
"There are far, far, better things ahead than any we can leave behind"
If you always do what you have always done, you will always get what you always got



avatar
azriel
Grumpy cat, rub my tummy, hear me purr

Posts : 12808
Join date : 2012-10-07
Age : 57
Location : in a galaxy, far,far away, deep in my own imagination.

Back to top Go down

Re: In defense of The Two Towers (which is your favorite?)

Post by Ringdrotten on Thu May 15, 2014 10:56 am

I sense Viggo Mortensen didn't like TH much Nod

_________________
“The Lord is my shepherd. I shall not want for nothing. He makes me lie down in the green pastures. He greases up my head with oil. He gives me kung-fu in the face of my enemies. Amen”. - Tom Cullen


avatar
Ringdrotten
Mrs Bear Grylls

Posts : 4385
Join date : 2011-02-13

Back to top Go down

Re: In defense of The Two Towers (which is your favorite?)

Post by Mrs Figg on Thu May 15, 2014 1:46 pm

well I agree with him about TH but TT and ROTK were naturally more grandiose, they were grandiose themes, they are epic High Fantasy so they have to have some 'big' effects and not the more intimate feel of The Shire as in FOTR.

_________________
avatar
Mrs Figg
Eel Wrangler from Bree

Posts : 21857
Join date : 2011-10-06
Age : 87
Location : Holding The Door

Back to top Go down

Re: In defense of The Two Towers (which is your favorite?)

Post by bungobaggins on Thu May 15, 2014 2:16 pm

I'd love to see them post that interview on torn. Twisted Evil

Ah! Someone posted it! Now they hate Viggo! slap laugh

www.newboards.theonering.net/forum/gforum/perl/gforum.cgi?post=741831
avatar
bungobaggins
The Mayor

Posts : 6174
Join date : 2013-08-24
Location : Free Country, USA

Back to top Go down

Re: In defense of The Two Towers (which is your favorite?)

Post by Mrs Figg on Thu May 15, 2014 2:30 pm

wow they are unbelievable, (I somehow managed to read the thread) they swing between snide comments about him being bad mannered, ungrateful, and being so bamboozled by the action sequences that he cant see the magnificence of the movie, so basicaly its denial, attack and backhanded insult. way to go TORn!. these people are ridiculous.  slap laugh

somebody actuallyhad the nerve to say PJs Laketown is stronger than Tolkiens.  slap laugh   :prof:  yeah right, sheer ignorance.


Last edited by Mrs Figg on Thu May 15, 2014 2:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
avatar
Mrs Figg
Eel Wrangler from Bree

Posts : 21857
Join date : 2011-10-06
Age : 87
Location : Holding The Door

Back to top Go down

Re: In defense of The Two Towers (which is your favorite?)

Post by bungobaggins on Thu May 15, 2014 2:33 pm

avatar
bungobaggins
The Mayor

Posts : 6174
Join date : 2013-08-24
Location : Free Country, USA

Back to top Go down

Re: In defense of The Two Towers (which is your favorite?)

Post by bungobaggins on Thu May 15, 2014 2:40 pm

Mrs Figg wrote:wow they are unbelievable, (I somehow managed to read the thread) they swing between snide comments about him being bad mannered, ungrateful, and being so bamboozled by the action sequences that he cant see the magnificence of the movie, so basicaly its denial, attack and backhanded insult. way to go TORn!. these people are ridiculous.  slap laugh

somebody actuallyhad the nerve to say PJs Laketown is stronger than Tolkiens.  slap laugh   :prof:  yeah right, sheer ignorance.

Thorin and co. could have stood around Lake-town for 45 minutes picking their noses and scratching their asses, and the people on torn would still think it's better than Tolkien.

Oh, wait, that's pretty much what they did in the movie.  cyclops 
avatar
bungobaggins
The Mayor

Posts : 6174
Join date : 2013-08-24
Location : Free Country, USA

Back to top Go down

Re: In defense of The Two Towers (which is your favorite?)

Post by David H on Thu May 15, 2014 2:41 pm

Mrs Figg wrote:wow they are unbelievable, (I somehow managed to read the thread) they swing between snide comments about him being bad mannered, ungrateful, and being so bamboozled by the action sequences that he cant see the magnificence of the movie, so basicaly its denial, attack and backhanded insult. way to go TORn!. these people are ridiculous.  slap laugh

somebody actuallyhad the nerve to say PJs Laketown is stronger than Tolkiens.  slap laugh   :prof:  yeah right, sheer ignorance.

Now that you can read TORn again, I can't!! I just gives me an Error message. Mad
They can't have banned me for what I was thinking, can thay? Suspect 

_________________
 
 ...................................
avatar
David H
Horsemaster, Fighting Bears in the Pacific Northwest

Posts : 6510
Join date : 2011-11-18

Back to top Go down

Re: In defense of The Two Towers (which is your favorite?)

Post by Bluebottle on Thu May 15, 2014 4:02 pm

He'll obviously be happy he turned down appearing in the Hobbit then. Razz 

Before they started shooting, back in 2008, one of the producers did ask if I would be interested. I said, 'You do know, don't you, that Aragorn isn't in The Hobbit? That there is a 60-year gap between the books?

Though Viggo playing what would have been a 10 year old Aragorn might have been amusing, I guess.  Rolling Eyes 

_________________
“We're doomed,” he says, casually. “There's no question about that. But it's OK to be doomed because then you can just enjoy your life."
avatar
Bluebottle
Adventurer

Posts : 9462
Join date : 2013-11-09
Age : 31

Back to top Go down

Re: In defense of The Two Towers (which is your favorite?)

Post by Mrs Figg on Thu May 15, 2014 4:33 pm

David H wrote:
Mrs Figg wrote:wow they are unbelievable, (I somehow managed to read the thread) they swing between snide comments about him being bad mannered, ungrateful, and being so bamboozled by the action sequences that he cant see the magnificence of the movie, so basicaly its denial, attack and backhanded insult. way to go TORn!. these people are ridiculous.  slap laugh

somebody actuallyhad the nerve to say PJs Laketown is stronger than Tolkiens.  slap laugh   :prof:  yeah right, sheer ignorance.

Now that you can read TORn again, I can't!! I just gives me an Error message. Mad
They can't have banned me for what I was thinking, can thay? Suspect 

 Shocked   pale 

its funny sometimes I can read the threads occasionally, but mostly I get 'you are banned' message.
avatar
Mrs Figg
Eel Wrangler from Bree

Posts : 21857
Join date : 2011-10-06
Age : 87
Location : Holding The Door

Back to top Go down

Re: In defense of The Two Towers (which is your favorite?)

Post by Forest Shepherd on Thu May 15, 2014 7:06 pm

I also couldn't access that page. Although it may have simply been because the server is down temporarily.
Either way, it's nice to hear Viggo's personal view of things.
Speaking of A History of Violence, of the three Cronenberg films Viggo has appeared in, I really could not understand the acclaim that film has garnered.
I found it strangely acted, unbelievable, weird, dragging towards the end, and inconsistent. The action sequences were, from what I remember, largely deplorable.
Spoiler:
In the scene outside the front of his home, when he manages to turn the tables on the goons molesting his family, there is a good 3 or 4 second pause in which the man with a gun about 8 feet away does absolutely nothing but stand there and let Viggo get the upper hand.
I wanted to like it (because I chose it for movie night and didn't want a bad film on my conscience), but I absolutely could not.

Eastern Promises and A Dangerous Method, however, were great. Maybe it's an order of viewing thing. If you see Eastern Promises first you greatly prefer it, and if you see A History of Violence first it ruins Eastern Promises for you.


Last edited by Forest Shepherd on Thu May 15, 2014 8:58 pm; edited 1 time in total

_________________
Boar is badger, named after wood,
Not after forest but trees.
Where did you play on a rainy day?
Where did I eat bread and cheese?
Search inside, stay indoors,
Look up and find the secret is yours.
Your castle your fort,
Or so you thought.
The way is in four trees.
The way is in Boar in Brockhall
Under ale, under bread, under cheese.

-Mossflower, by Brian Jacques.
avatar
Forest Shepherd
Adventurer

Posts : 3499
Join date : 2013-11-02
Age : 26
Location : Northern California

Back to top Go down

Re: In defense of The Two Towers (which is your favorite?)

Post by Ringdrotten on Thu May 15, 2014 7:27 pm

Forest Shepherd wrote:... and if you see A History of Violence first it ruins Easter Promises for you.

I thought Easter Promises was weird..




hurr hurr

Jokes aside, it's a great film Smile I haven't seen A History of Violence, though, but I'd heard good things about it. Now it appears I must see it and make up an opinion of my own!

_________________
“The Lord is my shepherd. I shall not want for nothing. He makes me lie down in the green pastures. He greases up my head with oil. He gives me kung-fu in the face of my enemies. Amen”. - Tom Cullen


avatar
Ringdrotten
Mrs Bear Grylls

Posts : 4385
Join date : 2011-02-13

Back to top Go down

Page 5 of 6 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum