Following the Path of the Ancient Ones - the Valar

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Re: Following the Path of the Ancient Ones - the Valar

Post by Elthir on Sat May 24, 2014 3:19 am

Tolkien deliberately left organized religion almost entirely out of his orks (with the main exception being Satanism).

By the [w]ay I apologize for highlighting this delicious lack of w  Very Happy 
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Re: Following the Path of the Ancient Ones - the Valar

Post by Elthir on Tue May 27, 2014 6:04 pm

Kenelm wrote: As he grew older, Tolkien gradually sought to expunge from the Legendarium anything that went against monotheistic dogma. In other words, he second guessed himself. Originally the Valar were frankly described as gods and goddesses, and Iluvatar was originally "Sky-father", which was later changed to "All-father". All Pagan mythologies have a creator-god, often called Sky-father.

The Valar are described as gods and goddesses in the early going, yes; and they are considered gods internally as I say. And even externally they are gods in the same sense that the Christian mind can call Woden a god. But as I also noted, there is an internal matter of perspective here [the translator Eriol knows of the pagan gods, but not of Iluvatar, for instance] and the entry on Iluvatar from the very early Qenya Lexicon provides a good example [although Tolkien is not consistent about this admittedly, even in his youth].

ILU (Cp. ili) ether, the slender airs among the stars.

Iluvatar (d) the name of Enu among Men.
Heavenly father.

JRRT, Qenya Lexicon

The name 'among Men'. And [same source]...

Enu God Almighty, the creator who dwells without the world

The young Tolkien also has references to the Blessed Trinity [in Christian teaching, the three persons of the one God: Father, Son and Holy Ghost] in his early nomenclature.

ION (form of Yon.) mystic name of God.
2nd Person of Blessed Trinity

(pages later)

*Sa fire, especially in temples etc. A mystic name identified with Holy Ghost.

JRRT Qenya Lexicon

Captalization as found in QL. And for [possibly] anyone wondering 'Qenya' is the correct spelling in this context  Very Happy

Note that Yon refers to the entry Yo, yond 'son'. Compare PME:

Ion 'mystic name of Enu'

JRRT, The Poetic and Mythological Words of Eldarissa

All very early stuff in any case.
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Re: Following the Path of the Ancient Ones - the Valar

Post by Forest Shepherd on Sat Jun 07, 2014 8:15 am

Goodness, I had no idea Silmarillion and Beyond held such strange conversations!

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Boar is badger, named after wood,
Not after forest but trees.
Where did you play on a rainy day?
Where did I eat bread and cheese?
Search inside, stay indoors,
Look up and find the secret is yours.
Your castle your fort,
Or so you thought.
The way is in four trees.
The way is in Boar in Brockhall
Under ale, under bread, under cheese.

-Mossflower, by Brian Jacques.
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