The Dark Tower Series

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Post by halfwise on Sat May 06, 2017 10:36 pm

I saw the first two and didn't think they were so bad, though I'm not really a fan of the books. The general themes and impressions felt right to me.

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Post by chris63 on Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:57 am


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Post by bungobaggins on Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:25 pm

I thought this was pretty funny:

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/the_dark_tower_2017

https://editorial.rottentomatoes.com/article/heres-what-critics-are-saying-about-the-dark-tower/

Even the Hobbit movies were fresh on RT, and they were absolute garbage. They thought they could make their film critic-proof by changing the race of the main character to a minority (a la female Ghostbusters), but it still bombed. That just makes their failure even more satisfying.

This is the actual ending of the film: https://www.reddit.com/r/movies/comments/6r9jol/review_megathread_the_dark_tower/dl3owzx/?utm_content=permalink&utm_medium=front&utm_source=reddit&utm_name=movies

"Roland becomes Jake's new surrogate father and the two stay in New York, with a chance to explore more of mid-world, and have adventures together as a new family after Roland kills the Man in Black and decides that the Tower is safe for good and there's no reason to explore it any further."

It sounds like a joke, but that's the ending! King threw his whole hearted endorsement behind the movie with all it's changes, and this is the result? He's pretty much dead to me. I want to see IT in September, but right now I don't even want to look at anything that has "Stephen King" plastered on it.

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Post by Ringdrotten on Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:10 pm

Bungo! Hoped to see you around here for some DT discussions. Won't read the ending spoiler just yet, but I'm going to see it when I can (won't be released until the 18th here). Looks pretty shitty from the trailers, though.

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Post by halfwise on Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:54 pm

Bungo's Back!   cheers   Good to see you around again, dude.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Aug 04, 2017 3:36 pm

{{Yeah reviews seem to be panning this- main complaints seems to be a complete lack of imagination and skipping over major plot events from the books as if they were nothing.

Oh, and good to see our Mayor back again cheers Good to see you Bungo. pub }}}

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Post by malickfan on Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:39 pm

Wave Good to see you drop by Bungo.

I haven't read the books and know nothing about the plot, but judging by the trailer the movie looks like a generic, tonally confused mess, though having read The Stand I do think Matthew McConaughey is
Spoiler:
a good choice for Randall Flagg.

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Post by bungobaggins on Fri Aug 04, 2017 10:02 pm

@malick

It might have been a good choice if the material had been closer to the source material, or if this had been an actual adaptation of the books.

The bits of dialogue I hear from him in the trailer sound very cheesy.

"Everyone that walks with you dies by my hand." What? No, everyone that walks with Roland dies because of Roland's blind ambition.

I'm watching what fans are saying online, and there are plenty of people that are taking the apologist stance, but a lot have acknowledged that the film is bad. It feels a lot like the Hobbit movies all over again.

I haven't seen it, I was never planning on seeing it, and I'm not giving them any of my money. I know enough about the film now, and I knew enough about it before they even started filming that this was not intended for people like me who want to see the book adapted properly. I did see a couple movies this summer (Guardians 2 and Apes 3) both which I really enjoyed, so I don't see the point in going to a movie that's just going to piss me off.

It looks like I'll have to come back in a couple weeks to hear Ringo's thoughts.

-peace

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sat Aug 05, 2017 11:10 am

{{Couple of weeks?! Mad Don't be a stranger Bungo we miss you. pub }}


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Post by Ringdrotten on Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:45 pm

First reviews coming in over here... worse than I thought. Might not see it after all

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Post by Forest Shepherd on Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:40 am

I don't think I'll bother! There's just too many other far better movies out right now.

I'm nearly done with It, so I'm quite curious as to how the feature film version will turn out. That I may go see. Has anyone read that?

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Post by bungobaggins on Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:01 pm

@Ringo That's too bad, but I doubt the reviews over where you are would vary much from the reviews over here. Although I wanted to hear what you think about the movie, I think it's best if everyone votes with their wallet.

@Forest I did read most of IT a long time ago, never got back to it. From the trailers it looks like the story will not include the main characters as adults? Looking at IMDB there are no actors listed for adult versions of the children. This would be a good change IMO as it would streamline the story and may have more of a "Stand by Me" feel to it.

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Post by Forest Shepherd on Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:14 am

With how this Dark Tower film has turned out, I am cautious about the It movie. I think I like the change too, because the adult versions of the kids are mostly there in the book to highlight the differences between childhood and adulthood: what you lose and what you gain as you grow older.

I don't think the adult versions are very important for the plot of the "It", and so removing the adults shouldn't hurt the horror elements of the story.

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Post by bungobaggins on Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:57 pm

I could handle Stephen King being a raging leftist and Trump hater, he has a right to his political opinion. But posting this shit on twitter, I can easily say I'm done with the man.

https://twitter.com/StephenKing/status/959109282250838018

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Post by halfwise on Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:10 pm

If nobody had died or been injured it would be forgivable, but joking about something like this is rather nauseating.

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Post by Ringdrotten on Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:04 pm

That somewhat lessened my respect for the man by alot.

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Post by Forest Shepherd on Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:52 am

I just deleted the post I made talking about how I deleted a much longer post.

Basically, overreaction guys. Overreaction. Chill would ya?

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"'But whereas we have drunk with thee, who seemest to be a man of lineage, and thou hast been blithe with us, we will tell thee that we have seen one riding south along the Greenway, clad in a coat as green as the way, with the leafless tree done on his breast. So nigh to him we were that we heard his cry as he sped along, as ye may hear the lapwing whining, for he said: "POINT AND EDGE, POINT AND EDGE! THE RED WATER AMIDST OF THE HILLS!" In my lifetime such a man hath, to my knowledge, been seen thrice before; and after each sight of him followed evil days and the death of men.'"

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Post by Forest Shepherd on Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:34 pm

I'm part-way through The Dark Tower, by which I mean the seventh book. I have to take nice long breaks between each book or else I get too tired of King's writing style. Razz
The end of Song of Susannah with the whole self-referential, self-insertion thing has been bothering me. I don't know. I'm really not a fan and although I feel as though it might be going somewhere interesting, it's really fucking hard for me to like this development.

Sometimes I just don't believe King's writing. The authors I like, no matter how fantastical their setting or characters, have a way of telling a convincing story. The characters feel like their own people, and it's easy to forget that you're just reading a book.
But King... especially with this recent meta-reveal about the nature of the character Stephen King's relationship to the ka-tet, it's crumbling the lovely authenticity that was established in The Gunslinger. Breaking the fourth wall certainly isn't helping. The facade is falling away.

I think one of the things that, strangely, really felt fake to me was the Tet Corporation. When... the guy, I forget his name, who Roland and Eddie set up at the CEO; when he is lying on his deathbed and recounting the work he's done, that part felt really fake. Talking about fire-bombing rival production facilities in New Delhi, espionage... I just thought, okay, this is bullshit. Yeah right.

Anyway, I'll stick in there because I'm so invested. But I'm really disappointed that the story has taken this turn for the worse by injecting all this meta-crap. Feels like Moffat-ism, "look how clever I am!" trickery.

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"'But whereas we have drunk with thee, who seemest to be a man of lineage, and thou hast been blithe with us, we will tell thee that we have seen one riding south along the Greenway, clad in a coat as green as the way, with the leafless tree done on his breast. So nigh to him we were that we heard his cry as he sped along, as ye may hear the lapwing whining, for he said: "POINT AND EDGE, POINT AND EDGE! THE RED WATER AMIDST OF THE HILLS!" In my lifetime such a man hath, to my knowledge, been seen thrice before; and after each sight of him followed evil days and the death of men.'"

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Post by Ringdrotten on Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:57 pm

I remember feeling that way myself, Forest, especially what you say about not believing the story anymore. Nearly stopped reading when all that crap started, but like you I was too much into it by then not to finish it. Still one of my favourite series, but yeah, it has its major flaws in my opinion.

On a side note, did you read The Wind Through the Keyhole? Fits in between book 4 and 5 if I remember correctly - I loved that one.

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Post by Forest Shepherd on Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:58 pm

No not yet, isn't that kind of an epilogue or something?

I knew I couldn't be alone about not enjoying the meta-stuff. I don't know why King thought this was such a good idea...

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"'But whereas we have drunk with thee, who seemest to be a man of lineage, and thou hast been blithe with us, we will tell thee that we have seen one riding south along the Greenway, clad in a coat as green as the way, with the leafless tree done on his breast. So nigh to him we were that we heard his cry as he sped along, as ye may hear the lapwing whining, for he said: "POINT AND EDGE, POINT AND EDGE! THE RED WATER AMIDST OF THE HILLS!" In my lifetime such a man hath, to my knowledge, been seen thrice before; and after each sight of him followed evil days and the death of men.'"

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Post by Forest Shepherd on Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:38 pm

Alright, I'm finished. It's done.

Or rather, mostly. I stopped reading at King's disclaimer, where he tells the reader to stop reading. I figured, hey, if the author doesn't want me to finish his book, and is teasing his way around the laundry basket, then I'll let him have this one and just stop. Besides, I'm ready to move on.

When the story went to Odd Lane and the ex-comedian and his gaunt nag I gritted my teeth with frustration, thinking that here was yet another meandering feel-good delay. But then there was at least some excitement and interest when Roland is nearly laughed to death and they find the artist in the basement. The disadvantage of reading these books over such a long time is that I really didn't remember who Danville is supposed to be (except I guess there was a painting of the Tower made by him in the headquarters of the Tet corporation?).

Anyway, it soothed me somewhat once Dandelo emerged (split open), and they started on their way again. The artist being able to draw doors... well it felt like a bit of an easy way out and that feeling of not believing the story happened again. Ultimately I'm okay with it because it gives the rest of the ka-tet this un-looked-for happy ending: a nice little eucatastrophe when she finds that the younger brother is in fact Jake ('Ake!). I'd prefer a simpler story, told with less alternate universes, but that ship sailed a looong time ago.

Meanwhile, the confrontation with the dan-tete was pretty darn anti-climactic. He's been chasing them for the entire book, and the final confrontation is a brief thing, barely of note except for the fate of the bumbler. Just didn't feel right to me, like King couldn't think of anything better to do with him.

Similarly, I liked the Crimson King okay...for a two-dimensional sneetch-tosser. Really, there wasn't much meat on dem bones. He's been the big villain for a long-ass time, but in the end he has about as much personality as Sauron in the Lord of the Rings, and perhaps that's the point.

It did seem to to me that Roland really could have gone with his first plan and just walked around to the side of the tower opposite the... ledge or whatever on which the King stands. He says something confusing about how they get pinned down behind the pyramid by the sneetches, but they walked up to that point just fine so I don't see why they couldn't do a fighting retreat out of range, and then loop around to the far side. It's frustrating when, as a reader, you suspect the author is ignoring a simple solution because they want the story to go in a certain way: that the characters are being fatalistic about something for no good reason.

Anyway, the King was erased (de-faced), the artist buggers off beyond the storyteller's ken, and Roland walks to the tower. We get that prologue with the others, and then came the disclaimer and I stopped reading. Was this the right thing to do? Did you guys finish the whole thing?

In conclusion, I'm glad I stuck with the series, but if books five through seven were condensed into one volume it would do me just fine, say thankya. Cut out the farm bumpkins and their 99 problems, those bloody orizas, the pregnancy, the white-mother, the bloody Tet corporation, the Rose in New York, slim down the Breakers (cutting out all of their pointless backstories), and UTTTERLY ERASE THE DAMNABLE STEPHEN KING INSERT!!! Mad Mad Mad

I suspect that the reason the last three books feel so bloated is that he churned them out within a period of a few years. With the first half of the series, quite some time passed between entries. '82, '87, '91. '97, and then '03, '04, '04. With the first four books, the pace of publication meant that he was changing as an author between each, influenced by the other works of fiction he writ in between, and his changing perspectives on life in general. And then this post-injury, glad-to-be-alive version of King gets his hands on the series and shoots off three more volumes in quick succession, overwhelming the patient reader with an abundance of riches that, unfortunately, turns out to be a matter of quantity over quality: a vault full of silver, rather than a lockbox of diamonds.

I don't know, that's where I'm at. I did enjoy reading some reviews just now for The Wind Through the Keyhole: they are gloriously divided. I think I shall read it, but first I need to distance myself from King and read a whole lot of other stuff. That way, when I do come back and pick it up, it will deliver the intended nostalgia.

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