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Post by azriel on Sun Dec 07, 2014 3:05 pm

I like your edits, & once you've finished fooking about it would be so worth wapping on a disc to enjoy at my own leisure !
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Post by halfwise on Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:34 am

I figure this is as good a place as any to put this.  Came across this while reading about Sean Connery in Wikipedia:

Connery stated in interviews that he was offered a role in The Lord of the Rings series, declining it due to "not understanding the script." CNN reported that the actor was offered up to 15% of the worldwide box office receipts to play Gandalf, which had he accepted, could have earned him as much as $400 million for the trilogy. Connery's disillusionment with the "idiots now making films in Hollywood" was cited as a reason for his eventual decision to retire from film-making.

and since we're on Petty's thread:

He then dated a blonde named Julie Hamilton; given his rugged appearance and rough charm she initially thought he was a most appalling person and was not attracted to him until she saw him in a kilt, declaring him to be the most beautiful thing she'd ever seen in her life.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Mon Dec 08, 2014 2:37 pm

Aye, the lasses cannae withstand the allure of the kilt swaying in the breeze and the promise of whats beneath Twisted Evil


DOS standard version is now uploaded.
All feeedback welcome- you seen the purist edits of TH yet Halfy?

Currently uploading the latest version of Book 1 of Fellowship- but its an HD file and will take ages. I will make a post when and if its ever finished.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Tue Dec 09, 2014 1:39 pm

Book 1 of FotR has finally finished uploading and is ready to watch (or download)

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Post by David H on Fri Dec 12, 2014 7:13 am

I was finally able to download DoSStandard. In my opinion the pacing and narrative are much improved. The story is really about Bilbo again!

The thing that struck me most, now that the narrative is restored, is how very dark the whole movie is, both in tone and visually. I don't think that can all be coincidence. I'm guessing there was once an early PJ edit that was even darker, and when the production team viewed it they said, "What a downer, man! Can't we please have some more sunlight and Dwarvish hijinks?" And it was so.

The rough spots are fewer than before. The soundtrack is still the most common give-away for me. For example when Thorin steps on the key to save it from going over the cliff. I can't remember the line that follows (thankfully) but I know it was censored because the soundtrack fades abruptly before the shot changes. I think you could probably get away with a lot more if you just had better tools for "photoshopping" the the sound.

Bilbo still makes his comment about "so the legend is true" on seeing Smaug's missing scale, but I don't remember any talk of that legend in this edit, now that the black arrow stuff has been chopped. I'm guessing you'll be reworking all that anyway, once you see exactly what you've got to work with when Smaug dies.

I'm still angry about the writing when Thranduil say to Thorin,
Thranduil- "I offer you my help."
Thorin- "I'm listening..."
Thranduil- "I will let you go, if you but return what is mine."
Thorin- "A favor for a favor..."
Thranduil-"You have my word, one king to another."
Thorin- "I would not trust Thranduil, great King, to honor his word, should the end of all days be upon us!"

It makes no sense. Nobody's asking Thorin to trust anybody. The deal Thranduil is offering is simply, "I let you go free now, and you can pay your ransom later." All the trust is on Thranduil's part, none on Thorin's. I know the point of the scene is for Thorin to show greed and arrogance, but he mostly just looks stupid. A little bit of writing could have easily fixed that. Mad
OK, end of rant.
As I said in an earlier post, these edits give me a reason to be interested again in what's in Bo5A. Thanks for that (I think... scratch )



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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Dec 12, 2014 8:30 am

The story is really about Bilbo again! - David

That is the best compliment you can pay the purist edits Dave, thanks.

'how very dark the whole movie is, both in tone and visually'

Yes, it lacks the lighter tones injected into the original story sadly. But no doubt those didn't sit well with PJ's epic, doom laden world in peril mood he had decided to turn the book into. Mad

'The soundtrack is still the most common give-away for me. For example when Thorin steps on the key to save it from going over the cliff.'

The cut there is because there is a all the dwarves lined up shot which makes it too obvious they are three dwarves short!

'I think you could probably get away with a lot more if you just had better tools for "photoshopping" the the sound.'

The problem isn't the tools- I have those- the problem is I dont have access to the separate soundtracks: music, fx, dialogue tracks. I am editing an already sound mixed file.

'Bilbo still makes his comment about "so the legend is true" on seeing Smaug's missing scale, but I don't remember any talk of that legend in this edit, now that the black arrow stuff has been chopped'

Um, thats just a mistake on my part made in the last edit when I removed the black arrow stuff from Laketown.
From what I can tell the windlass doesn't come into the final film, and Bilbo seeing the missing scale has no bearing on the outcome- I had assumed Bilbo would somehow get this information to Bard, but there is no thrush to deliver the news in time and Bard just sees the missing scale.
Expect that line to go in the final edit when I combine DOS and BOFA together into a single film.

Agree on the Thorin stuff, but there isnt a huge deal I can do about the writing sadly, and if I remove it, which is possible as Ringdrotten suggested I would lose the lines after from Thranduil which are book based. And there are few enough of those as is.

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Post by David H on Fri Dec 12, 2014 3:07 pm

Petty wrote:The problem isn't the tools- I have those- the problem is I dont have access to the separate soundtracks: music, fx, dialogue tracks. I am editing an already sound mixed file.

Don't you bring in a second track with music from the soundtrack album and fade between the two? I seem to remember you doing that on previous edits, or am I wrong?

Agree on the Thorin stuff, but there isnt a huge deal I can do about the writing sadly, and if I remove it, which is possible as Ringdrotten suggested I would lose the lines after from Thranduil which are book based. And there are few enough of those as is.

I wouldn't worry about removing it. Thorin looks stupid for enough other reasons it hardly matters. It just stood out so clearly now that the story is less numbingly busy, that I felt the need to grumble.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sun Dec 14, 2014 2:21 pm

Don't you bring in a second track with music from the soundtrack album and fade between the two?- David

Yes at points- but its a limited tool as you then lose sfx too and only music is noticeable, it can only really be used in short sparing moments to mask some cuts.


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Post by David H on Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:15 pm

I thought so. You've put a lot of work into these, and it shows!

For now the fact that you've brought the story back into focus on Bilbo is more than enough. The soundtrack issues are just a technical detail.

When the time comes to finalize the edit though, you might try just listening to the soundtrack alone with the picture off to make sure it flows and tells a story on its own.

I like the fades to black, and I suspect there's even more you may be able to do with that tool if you can find a way to let the soundtrack continue to tell the story. Also I suspect some of the visual cuts that are just a little bit abrupt now will almost disappear if you can keep the soundtrack feeling continuous.

But again, that's just polishing. The fact that you've been able to craft a continuous narrative out of the pile of random #### you had to start with is the real victory. Cheers! pub

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sun Dec 14, 2014 8:04 pm

Glad it worked overall for you David.

As with LotR's the initial aim is just to try to find a way to tell a complete narrative whilst sticking to the core elements and removing all the unnecessary PJisms.

I see the technical issues that arise from that as the secondary ones- but they bug me just as much too and I try to resolve as many of them as possible to make the viewing as smooth as possible for my own pleasure as much as others.

I just wish I had access to the original materials and a mixing studio! Think what I could do then!

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Tue Dec 23, 2014 9:03 pm

I have acquire a terrible cam recorded ina cinema cop oy of BAFA- no good for watching as entertainment- terribl epicture, people ge tin the way, awful sound- just dont if you want to see the film go see it properly first  so you know what to complain about- however it is handy for mucking aboutinthe editing with to see whats slavagable.

The good news in I can make this work, sort of, sometimes!

My first rough cut puts the combined length of DOS (combing it and BAFA's) at 2hours 14 minutes.

Giving two films AUJ- 1hour 25 and DOS 2hours 14.

Also in good news Bard gets to shoot Smaug- with his arrow, from his bow- and no son present either.

Bad news- still cant find a way to do the Fili and Kili deaths well.

I was right however to feature Azog in the role of Bolg from the Misty Mountains onwards as looks like I will need him sadly for these deaths.

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Post by Mrs Figg on Tue Dec 23, 2014 9:57 pm

well good luck with it anyway. Very Happy if you can make it watchable that's a bonus.

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Post by Bluebottle on Tue Dec 23, 2014 11:07 pm

Oh, interesting. Very Happy

Hm, no. Finding a way to include them is hard. Perhaps just having the Thorin saying he's going off to Ravenhill to Dain conversation and then cutting everyting from the following except him and the Azog showdown, cutting Fili and Kili ultimately is the only way to go? Then you can show some images of the battle going on in the background and include the eagles arriving and so on. Shrugging

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Dec 24, 2014 12:04 am

if you can make it watchable that's a bonus.- Figg

Not sure ther eis 'perform miracles' tool in my edtir sadly, but I shall try.
So far Ive restored Bard and his bow and last Black Arrow- but no speech to it sadly- and Ive got rid of Alfred bar a few minor instances where he is sort of there.
And its of course focused back on Bilbo again.

But not sure there is too much left I can do in terms of turning some stuff into anything resembling the book.

I am hoping the EE will have more Beorn at least and the funeral. Both of which will help. The coronation of Dain, or even him turning up at the funeral as the obvious new King would be good too.
And an extra scene or two between Bilbo and some, any! of the dwavres other than Thorin, Dwalin or Balin would be good.

I am toying however with the notion of a night filter at some parts to give the impression the battle goes on all night.

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Post by David H on Wed Dec 24, 2014 12:07 am

Pettytyrant101 wrote:I have acquire a terrible cam recorded ina cinema cop oy of BAFA- no good for watching as entertainment- terribl epicture, people ge tin the way, awful sound- just dont if you want to see the film go see it properly first  so you know what to complain about- however it is handy for mucking aboutinthe editing with to see whats slavagable.

The good news in I can make this work, sort of, sometimes!

........
Also in good news Bard gets to shoot Smaug- with his arrow, from his bow- and no son present either.


Yes! cheers :carrot:

I don't think I want to watch it until you get a cleaner copy, but when you get something that's marginally watchable I'd love to view it if you can upload it as a smallish file like you did before (the smaller the better).

That Bard shooting Smaug scene really bothered me. When you've got all the natural drama of killing a dragon one on one, why for ***** sake would you through in a child, an implausible dangle, a broken bow, and an impossible jury rig???? It's excess on top of excess on top of further excess, and it destroys what could easily have been a great scene.

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Post by Mrs Figg on Wed Dec 24, 2014 12:11 am

seriously though, is there even one little scene exactly like the book, without any added thrills, twiddly bits and fluff? because I am struggling to think of any.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Dec 24, 2014 12:15 am

I was also disappointed with the effects and effect of Smaug deaths.
In the end the death of Smaug was a punchline to a weak joke, splatting on the Master and his treasure.

What I had hoped was to see WETA at least delight us with was Smaug shot form the sky. Smaug silhouetted against the moon above the town before plunging down in a catastrophe of fiery destruction and for his impact into the water to send up a steam that shrouds the Town in mists- that would have worked nice with Bard left still above the fumes.
But what with the kid showing up so Smaug could taunt Bard and cheaply tug on heartstrings, more false peril of the boy hanging of a flaming tower, the stupid bow stuff and then the lame joke to finish it-
Smaugs death- the death of a terrifying, murderous, petty, jealous, covetous monster, yet with a certain pride, dignity and charm you cant deny is a powerful and moving moment in the book. Its Hobbit style Shock and Awe, but with the aftermath for the casualties included.

In the film I was just more 'meh'.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Dec 24, 2014 12:18 am

is there even one little scene exactly like the book- Mrs Figg

There are lines form the book but none of them quite in the context of the book.
Thorin in his dying scene for example does say a variation of his words in the book. But no, its not Tolkiens words in its entirety- but I think its the closest scene there is to being text from Tolkien for anything substantial.
But thats just the words.

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Post by David H on Wed Dec 24, 2014 12:20 am

It's not out of the question for Smaug's death to be expanded in the EE's, in a good way. Weta certainly has the skills, and it would be like PJ to film it 3 or 4 ways. (....hoping...hoping....)

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Post by Sinister71 on Wed Dec 24, 2014 1:50 am

Here's to hoping you'll get some good stuff and be able to make something watchable out of the shit soup Peter Jackson is trying to feed everyone

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Dec 24, 2014 4:55 pm

I have edited it so that Fili and Kii die more or less together- Kili gets chopped and dropped, Fili jumps immediately in to avenge his brother and instantly gets run through (as Azog and Bold designs are similar Ive cut it very quickly so only the astute viewer will notice its not Azog killing both- even though in the purist edit Azog is playing the part of Bolg- bugger this is confusing!!! Mad and best bit is I get to use Thorins reaction to one death for both!

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Post by Mrs Figg on Wed Dec 24, 2014 5:02 pm

Thumbs Up

the battle sequence will be a nightmare to edit I bet. No

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Dec 24, 2014 5:09 pm

Oh I dunno, easier to find the cut tool than the 'wish I had better material to work with' button Mad

Ravenhill has been proving a ngthmare and how to imporve it.
Like in DOS Azog takes th eiole of Bolg and is just the head orc honcho in charge- as per the normal cut Thorin tells Dain he s going to Ravenhill- but I ct out the goats and I just put some fighting stuff in instead in Dale ect, then you cut to Ravehill and Thorin sending Kili anf Fili to check out the tower, short skrimish there, Bilbo arrives warning of a second army approaching and then Kili gets it, then Fili as well along with him.
Then Thorin harges in and Bilb gets ambushed, Dwalin defends Bilbo and Bilbo gets knocked out.


I also moved the raven getting send out to summon Dale to a much earlier point to give a more plausible time frame. And on the basis Thorin is many things but stupid was never one of them and he knows he will need Dain as soon as possible no matter what happens next.

Oh and Thrandil is a lot less a dick, still a dick though in that he stil wants to go to war, but it comes over as more altrusitic in this edit- he is doing it more for the Laketowners to get their due.

And much of Throins 'madness' is gone- he just gets obsessed with the gold and the Arkenstone, but he doesnt delay in joining the fight alongside his fellow dwarves from the start now.

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Post by David H on Wed Dec 24, 2014 6:04 pm

That sounds excellent! In the theater I was yawning and nodding off during big parts of the battles. It sounds like you're getting focused back on the core characters! Thumbs Up
Speaking of which, does Leggy play any part in your edit?

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Dec 24, 2014 6:31 pm

No he is not in the purist edits at all besides his cameo in Mirkwood.
Last shot you see of Legolas in purist edits is when he enters in the gates with invisible Bilbo running to follow him in before they close.

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