J.R.R. Tolkien's The Hobbit: A Fanedit by Dustin Lee

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J.R.R. Tolkien's The Hobbit: A Fanedit by Dustin Lee

Post by Goldeneye on Wed Apr 01, 2015 6:07 pm

Hi everyone, this is my first new topic on Forumshire after being invited by Petty to join!

I have been working on a single-film fanedit of The Hobbit for the last two years, and finally have a completed version to share. Basically, my version aims to be as faithful to Tolkien's story as possible, without ruining the cinematic pace or creating giant plotholes/continuity errors. I have a webpage dedicated to this project, where you can read my cutlists for each film and view short video clips as well.

However, if you'd like to just cut to the chase and watch the completed edit, the link is below! Just FYI, this fanedit will not truly be finished until the Battle of Five Armies EE is released on Bluray later this year. Let me know what you think!

http://www.maple-films.com/the-hobbit-fanedit

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Re: J.R.R. Tolkien's The Hobbit: A Fanedit by Dustin Lee

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Apr 01, 2015 6:16 pm

Congratulations Goldeneye on finishing your current edit. Thumbs Up

For anyone else who is curious I would highly recommmend taking a look- from what Ive seen they are very professional (much more so than my own).

But I will get back to you Goldeneye with my thoughts once Ive watched your full edit.
I suspect any quibbles I might have will be over the fidelity to source question rather than any technical issues from what Ive seen so far.

Also to the regulars here poor Goldeneye made the mistake of thinking posting about this on ToRN might garner some important feedback and some encouragement- but got the usual ToRN reaction of derision and accusations instead and being shouted down- so I invited them here knowing you lot will welcome Goldeneye with open arms and be perfectly happy to discuss the edits in an open friendly spirit just as you have for my own edits.

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Re: J.R.R. Tolkien's The Hobbit: A Fanedit by Dustin Lee

Post by azriel on Wed Apr 01, 2015 6:27 pm

so I invited them here knowing you lot will welcome Goldeneye with open arms and be perfectly happy to discuss the edits in an open friendly spirit just as you have for my own edits.......................Petty.

Or its a flaming Haggis produced from the under flap at the back of his kilt pale

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Re: J.R.R. Tolkien's The Hobbit: A Fanedit by Dustin Lee

Post by bungobaggins on Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:03 pm

Hi Goldeneye! Welcome to Forumshire. I don't have the time to download your edit at the moment, but I'll see if I can get to it in the near future. I liked what Petty was able to do with AUJ and DOS last year, but now I'm thinking a little differently: I really disliked these movies, and there were only a handful of scenes that were worth commending. Why would I want to watch all of it chopped up and still see stuff that I hate? i.e. the look of the dwarves. That can't be changed in a film edit and I can't stand most of them. Ori just makes me want to punch him in the face when I see the character design.

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Re: J.R.R. Tolkien's The Hobbit: A Fanedit by Dustin Lee

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:19 pm

Granted Bungo there is much that can never be altered.
But I have found that it is at least possible to restore the books themes and to restore Bilbo's entire character arc with regards to him emerging as the leader of the dwarves and Thorin being a poor one. And the films can be made to be Bilbo centric as they should have been, and his story again.
There is still much wrong in terms of mood, style, and look that must be endured- I'm not denying that, but there is some that can made quite palatable too.

On a complete tangent I was rewatching the Gandalf introduces the dwarves to Beorn scene again- and there has always been something about it that I have found off putting, somehow wrong about it, despite it being one of the closer scenes to the book.
And I realised what it was, and it came as a bit of a shock, its not Beorns stupid look, its Sir Ian. He's not good in this scene.
I dont know if its because there are three different scaled characters here so they are all acting on their own on on their own green screen stage, or something else. But its pitched wrong, is almost like he isnt sure how to play Gandalf in this scene or quite where to pitch the material.
It may also be because the dialogue is closer to the book Gandalfs, its word play- many, several, a troop ect and is so at odds with the Gandalf dialogue he has otherwise been given to play that he just doesn't get a consistency between PJ and Tolkien Gandalfs as written because the gulf is to wide to bridge.

Just an after thought from reviewing the edit.

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Re: J.R.R. Tolkien's The Hobbit: A Fanedit by Dustin Lee

Post by Forest Shepherd on Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:12 pm

Welcome Godeneye! I look forward to watching your fan edit.


And Petty: that is an interesting point. The main thing I disliked about that scene was Beorn's atrocious appearance and idiotic menacing acting. I also disliked Ian McKellen's acting, but only because he was representing a Gandalf that was actually frightened of Beorn. This is something that I could not stand.

The idea that Gandalf would respect Beorn, and understand that he can be perilous (to ORCS and GOBLINS), is perfectly acceptable; the idea that Gandalf is actually frightened of him is Jackson's attempt at humour and is very poorly handled indeed.

So I see what you're saying about the inconsistency of McKellen's performance, but I blame it on Jackson, not the actor.

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Re: J.R.R. Tolkien's The Hobbit: A Fanedit by Dustin Lee

Post by Mrs Figg on Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:38 pm

hi Goldeneye Wave
I took a look at your Kili Fili edit and I like that you seem to have got rid of the maudlin death scene with Tauriel and had Kili die much earlier. Thumbs Up

Apart from the appalling dialogue which you cant do much about, it was very good. really though, Fili saying ''I have got this'' its so out of character and modern sounding, its terrible. I haven't seen it in English before and I didn't realize how bad the dialogue was.

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Re: J.R.R. Tolkien's The Hobbit: A Fanedit by Dustin Lee

Post by Goldeneye on Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:52 am

I have just added a torrent link to the download page on my site, for those of you who may have trouble with the direct download! You will need a torrent client such as uTorrent or BitTorrent to download it.

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Re: J.R.R. Tolkien's The Hobbit: A Fanedit by Dustin Lee

Post by bungobaggins on Thu Apr 02, 2015 3:55 am

I liked your version of "On the Doorstep". {{{Though I didn't really like the Misty Mountains theme during Thorin's rally.}}} How is Azog explained in your edit? Is he just an unnamed leader of the orcs?

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Re: J.R.R. Tolkien's The Hobbit: A Fanedit by Dustin Lee

Post by azriel on Thu Apr 02, 2015 11:00 am

Hiya Wave
Im downloading your "film", will watch over the weekend, so much to do just because its Easter & grandkids expect the biggest egg on the shelf from you ( are they ever in for a shock ! Smile )

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Re: J.R.R. Tolkien's The Hobbit: A Fanedit by Dustin Lee

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Thu Apr 02, 2015 11:49 am

Me too- will give it a watch either tonight or tomorrow and then give you some feedback Goldeneye.

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Re: J.R.R. Tolkien's The Hobbit: A Fanedit by Dustin Lee

Post by Goldeneye on Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:45 pm

bungobaggins wrote:I liked your version of "On the Doorstep". {{{Though I didn't really like the Misty Mountains theme during Thorin's rally.}}} How is Azog explained in your edit? Is he just an unnamed leader of the orcs?

Thanks, it seems there is a split on using the Misty Mountains theme during Thorin's charge. I just hated the fact that they abandoned that theme after AUJ, and that felt like the best scene for a reprisal.

For Azog, he is not mentioned until the Goblin King tells Thorin "I know someone who would pay a pretty price for your head..." etc. We get the impression that Azog is an old foe of Thorin, and the first time we see him is when the wargs begin to chase the company after they escape the goblin tunnels.

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Re: J.R.R. Tolkien's The Hobbit: A Fanedit by Dustin Lee

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Thu Apr 02, 2015 2:21 pm

For Azog, he is not mentioned until the Goblin King tells Thorin "I know someone who would pay a pretty price for your head..." etc. We get the impression that Azog is an old foe of Thorin, and the first time we see him is when the wargs begin to chase the company after they escape the goblin tunnels. - Goldeneye

Interesting we made similar but not identical choices here.
I left out any mention of Azog- his name doesnt come up at all- too nonpurist for my tastes!
But similarly the first time he appears is as the leader of the orcs chasing them after the tunnels escape, and simply continues in that role (that way in my head he is actually Bolg).

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Re: J.R.R. Tolkien's The Hobbit: A Fanedit by Dustin Lee

Post by Sinister71 on Thu Apr 02, 2015 6:51 pm

Goldeneye wrote:
bungobaggins wrote:I liked your version of "On the Doorstep". {{{Though I didn't really like the Misty Mountains theme during Thorin's rally.}}} How is Azog explained in your edit? Is he just an unnamed leader of the orcs?

Thanks, it seems there is a split on using the Misty Mountains theme during Thorin's charge. I just hated the fact that they abandoned that theme after AUJ, and that felt like the best scene for a reprisal.

For Azog, he is not mentioned until the Goblin King tells Thorin "I know someone who would pay a pretty price for your head..." etc. We get the impression that Azog is an old foe of Thorin, and the first time we see him is when the wargs begin to chase the company after they escape the goblin tunnels.

Any specific reason you cut the trees and eagles out of the film. I could see cutting Azog and Thorin fighting but why cut out the rest of the scene?

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Re: J.R.R. Tolkien's The Hobbit: A Fanedit by Dustin Lee

Post by Goldeneye on Thu Apr 02, 2015 7:04 pm

The eagle rescue, while it was from the book, just didn't work in my edit. This is because PJ built the scene as an action climax for AUJ. Also, we see the eagles drop the company on the carrock but we never see how they get down! Finally, once DOS begins they are still being chased by Azog. So it made sense to join the chase in AUJ with the one in DOS.

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Re: J.R.R. Tolkien's The Hobbit: A Fanedit by Dustin Lee

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Thu Apr 02, 2015 7:40 pm

mmmm, I shall reserve judgement till I have seen it- but I can fully understand why you made that decision as I originally ran into exactly the same problem when I originally tried to also make a single film- there simply is nothing to bridge the gap between how AUJ ends and DOS starts, its impossible with a big glaring cut form one place to another and no explanation for it- my own solution, rather than lose such an iconic moment altogether from the book was to simply retain the two film split at its original place, which allows DOS to start with the pursuit without a continuity hitch even if it does make AUJ short for a film made after 1978! But I felt a split was the lesser of two evils.

Ive finished downloading you edit Goldeneye and will most likely give it a watch after the tv election debate here in the UK tonight.

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Re: J.R.R. Tolkien's The Hobbit: A Fanedit by Dustin Lee

Post by Mrs Figg on Thu Apr 02, 2015 11:25 pm

the Eagles were the best bit of all the 3 films. No its a shame you had to cut them out.

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Re: J.R.R. Tolkien's The Hobbit: A Fanedit by Dustin Lee

Post by malickfan on Thu Apr 02, 2015 11:34 pm

I'll be giving it a miss personally (at least for the time being), I doubt a fan edit could change my views towards the film (it wold probably make things worse pointing out the missed opportunities), even if I had the time or enthusiasm to sit through it again I'm personally a bit uncomfortable about the idea of fan edits, and watching pirated material, it's nothing personal, (I've said the same about Petty's edits, much to his annoyance Laughing) It's just a weird little moral posistion I have.

In anycase I'm sure many others who post here will be interested, and welcome to Forumshire Goldeneye Wave (I'm not surprised you didn't get much of an response at TORn, it's a family site and very pro film forum (many of the staff/regulars have contacts with the crew and cast of the films) so they wouldn't get alot of support for fan edits (there's probably a rule against sharing copyrighted material on the site anyway).

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Re: J.R.R. Tolkien's The Hobbit: A Fanedit by Dustin Lee

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Apr 03, 2015 7:29 am

It's just a weird little moral posistion I have. -Malick

Not at all Malick, and it doesnt annoy me I just forget you hold it!
And just to be clear Forumshire doesnt host copyright material either, but if someone makes a fan edit or such and links to their own site and then from there links to their edits in some fashion thats their site and their look out. But we dont host it here. Just to be a bit clearer on the rules.

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Re: J.R.R. Tolkien's The Hobbit: A Fanedit by Dustin Lee

Post by Goldeneye on Fri Apr 03, 2015 7:26 pm

malickfan wrote:I'm not surprised you didn't get much of an response at TORn.

Actually, I did get quite a response...it was not a very positive one though lol. To be honest, if I had to break the users down by their attitudes towards fanedits, about 25% are interested and/or support them, 50% are of varying indifference, and 25% are vehemently opposed to the idea.


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Re: J.R.R. Tolkien's The Hobbit: A Fanedit by Dustin Lee

Post by Sinister71 on Fri Apr 03, 2015 7:56 pm

usually at that other place that shall not be named anything to question Peter Jackson is frowned upon.

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Re: J.R.R. Tolkien's The Hobbit: A Fanedit by Dustin Lee

Post by dak on Sat Apr 04, 2015 10:24 am

Always like more fan edits! Personally, I'd love if the real superfulous stuff added in got removed and the Tolkien stuff kept in even if that wrecked the flow of the movie. I like the puzzle edit keeping the tree scene and removing the entire orc chase out and just going straight from the eagles to Beorn's house. It's not great, but I hate Azog and the orc chase sooo much.

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Re: J.R.R. Tolkien's The Hobbit: A Fanedit by Dustin Lee

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sun Apr 05, 2015 8:05 pm

Right, settle in with a buckie Goldeneye, this won't be short! pub

I decided just to take notes as I watched, which accumulated rather a lot of notes so Ive split it up.
This first bit covers from the start of the film to the end of the troll scene.

There are one or two things I would like to say beforehand however.

First on the workmanship of the editing, which is of the highest craftsmanship. Undetectable and smooth. I cant really say enough on that front, and if I mentioned it in my notes every single time thats all they would consist of.
Rather take it as read that my being impressed with the quality of the work never faltered once. And I will mention any particular moments of editing I think deserving of special mention. But suffice to say well done- superb work. Thumbs Up

The second thing is where I am coming from in viewing this. You have given your edit the title 'J.R.R. Tolkien's The Hobbit' and so it was with a purist eye to the restoring of Tolkien's version of the book I am looking, and my comments and the sort of things that I will note will be entirely coloured by this approach.

Thirdly and lastly, I am not just a purist I am a crabbit old bastard too. So expect that as well. Twisted Evil

So here they are- my notes-


-still the fully butchered version in the script of the books opening passage rather than just 'that means comfort'. It is possible to do and so keep the rythmn of the original, and with the editing skills on display I am sure you could make it seamless.
Excellent titles and seque into the film using the smoke ring.
No dwarf history flashback very good thing

- you kept in the comedy headbutt between dwarves- bit of a personal one this but I object to it on the grounds of it not being appropriate culturally for Tolkiens dwarves.
Something I dislike in PJ's portrayal as a scot is how he puts stereotypical Scottish cultural traits onto the dwarves for humour, but dwarves should not act like that, they are dwarves not scots. Accents are fine, but not also taking clutura traits form the present day associated with that accent.
PJ does it a lot, and at its worse when Billy Connolly turns up swearing riding on a pig playing Billy Connolly swearing riding on a pig.
As a Scot it just takes me right of Tolkiens world every time it happens and therefore its something else which distances me from any immersion with the characters.

- you left in all the burping and stuff at the meal. Is it necessary?

- cuts so far are undetectable from the editing- great job.

- you left in more of the over the top bouncing plates about on heads before the song starts than I would.

- you left in Thorin going on about swords to a hobbit, which doesnt make sense- why would he expect Bilo to be any sort of fighter? He is there to hire a burglar.

- you left in Ori doing his right up his jacksie line, the dialogue here is so awful and does nothing to progress the story, is it really necessary?

-And Fili or Kili or whichever thinking Gandalf would have killed 10 dragons. Is ME set in Skyrim now?
And then Dori of all people demanding to know how many.
And then Gandalf not answering is the reaosn everyone expodes into shouting?!- its all so poorly contirved to have a big dramtic shouting match, but its over someting so stupid and its doing nothing in the story. Its a weak gag turned into an even weaker dramatic moment that makes everyone look stupid, and again does nothing to progress anything or tell you anything good or new about the characters.

-Just get to the key Id say, without all the fake shouting.It also helps add a bit brevity by getting into the actual adventure starting that bit sooner, which is no bad thing given the padding in these scenes from PJ.

- if it were me I'd not have the conversation between Balin and Thorin in Bag End, its irrelevant to Bilbo's story, and its purpose is to set up Thorins new story as a flawed dramatic hero. Which is just to far from book Thorin for my tatstes. And again it helps move the story on that bit closer to getting moving without it.

- you left in the betting over Bilbo, granted this one is more a matter of personal taste than most, but it didn't sit well with me in TH, and given Tolkiens Catholic outlook I doubt he saw Gandalf as a betting man.

- you took out the scene where Bilbo asks about wizards. Granted its not 100% necessary but it does have two aspects from the book- the weather being miserable, and Gandalf mentioning Radagast.

- you left in more of the terrible troll comedy jinks than I would.

- with your editing skill I wonder if you could get what I couldn't quite get to work in the troll scene- which is too change the sound so they say 'Burhobbit' rather than 'burglarhobbit'. Which is stupid.

- you left a lot of the troll fight in (if not all of it) including stupid sliding about and other over the top antics.

- you left in BIlbo being proactive! This is totally against the book, and the entire set up for Bilbos charcter arc where this has to be a failure requiring rescue by Gandalf. Bilbo gets them all into it failing in his first attempt to steal and they need rescuing- its crucial to the structuring.
This one is fundemental for me.
The pattern from the book- Gandalf rescues everyone, Gandalf rescues everyone bar Bilbo. Bilbo rescues everyone bar Thorin. Bilbo rescues everyone including Thorin. Its crucial to book Bilbo's arc and should be preserved wherever possible in any film bearing the title 'JRR Tolkien's.'

At this point my crabbit levels meant I required a buckie break! drunken (But the quality of work remains superb throughout).











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Pettytyrant101
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Re: J.R.R. Tolkien's The Hobbit: A Fanedit by Dustin Lee

Post by azriel on Sun Apr 05, 2015 10:29 pm

Ive downloaded it Dustin but, havent had time to watch it yet, but, I will ! Very Happy

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Re: J.R.R. Tolkien's The Hobbit: A Fanedit by Dustin Lee

Post by Goldeneye on Mon Apr 06, 2015 4:12 pm

Thanks for the lengthy comments Petty! You've given more feedback just in the Bag End sequence than anyone else, that's for sure.

A lot of your comments would be hard to fix completely, and there are others that I would rather leave as is. There is something called cinematic pacing which is difficult to measure- it is the narrative beat to which a film marches to. Many fanedits get too carried away and destroy this pace because they remove too much. A perfect example would be David Killstein's "There and Back Again." In his effort to turn The Hobbit trilogy into a 3-hour film, he ruined the natural cinematic flow of the story. Scenes and characters are not given enough time to breathe and therefore the audience does not become as invested in the story. So while I'm calling my fanedit "JRR Tolkien's The Hobbit" and am trying to make it as faithful to the book as possible, I also want it to succeed in cinematic terms as well. However here are a few specific things which I will address for you.

- I'll see about changing old Bilbo's line to the original "that means comfort."
- I enjoyed a lot of the comedic elements to the dwarves. The Bag End sequence on the whole was well done, and while I can remove little lines and shots here and there, the overall tone and characterization is difficult to change.
- I'll try to remove Ori's line at the table. I also did not like that bit!
- Balin and Thorin talking in Bag End will stay. There are precious few quiet moments of dialogue in these films and I'm trying to keep as many as I can. Plus it gives some more background on Thorin and the dwarves, and sets up Balin's concern for Thorin throughout the quest.
- I cut as much of the troll slapstick silliness as I could without disrupting the flow of that scene. However I'll see if I can at least cut Ori's slingshot bit- that was unnecessary.
- That is an interesting take on Bilbo being proactive with the troll scene. I'm not sure how much can be changed with how the scene is structured but I'll do what I can.

I'm making a list of all the feedback I've received for this current version, and will use them to improve the final cut. Of course I can't make every change but if I get enough people complaining about this bit or that, I'll allow democracy to prevail lol.

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JRR Tolkien's The Hobbit: A Fanedit by Dustin Lee
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